Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[SI]

Islanders are winning - they are 9-2 in the last 11 games!
I was so sure they were done. They need to grab 3 of the possible 4 points in Florida.

ALSO - DeAngelo played 28 minutes?! tonight.

All this talk about EP40, when I think Miller would be the better fit and costs 3.6 less and with fewer years... might also cost less to acquire.

Here is something to think about (or Flame) -

JT Miller, C, 31, (turning 32 in March) 5 years after this one @ 8 AAV
Tom Willander, RHD, 19, (10th OA pick in 2023) unsigned playing in NCAA
for
Noah Dobson, RHD, 25, RFA next season - projected signed 8x8
Danny Nelson, C, 19, (2nd round pick in 2022) unsigned in NCAA
Pierre Engvall, LW, 5 years after this one @ 3 AAV
2025 2nd round pick

1. Lee - Horvat - Barzal
2. Tsyplakov - Miller - Holmstrom
3. Duclair - Nelson - Palmieri
4. Cizikas - Pageau - ????

OR they could move Miller to LW and Cizikas back to C.

That is a very good forward group!

PS – If it were up to me, I'd rather trade Nelson—or the assets from a Nelson deal—for Miller than give up Dobson.

 

[Isles72]

Islanders are winning - they are 9-2 in the last 11 games!
I was so sure they were done. They need to grab 3 of the possible 4 points in Florida.

ALSO - DeAngelo played 28 minutes?! tonight.

All this talk about EP40, when I think Miller would be the better fit and costs 3.6 less and with fewer years... might also cost less to acquire.

Here is something to think about (or Flame) -

JT Miller, C, 31, (turning 32 in March) 5 years after this one @ 8 AAV
Tom Willander, RHD, 19, (10th OA pick in 2023) unsigned playing in NCAA
for
Noah Dobson, RHD, 25, RFA next season - projected signed 8x8
Danny Nelson, C, 19, (2nd round pick in 2022) unsigned in NCAA
Pierre Engvall, LW, 5 years after this one @ 3 AAV
2025 2nd round pick

1. Lee - Horvat - Barzal
2. Tsyplakov - Miller - Holmstrom
3. Duclair - Nelson - Palmieri
4. Cizikas - Pageau - ????

OR they could move Miller to LW and Cizikas back to C.

That is a very good forward group!

PS – If it were up to me, I'd rather trade Nelson—or the assets from a Nelson deal—for Miller than give up Dobson.

if Perunavich and DeAngelo are part of future plans then trade Dobson at the draft for a good forward .

As good as he is I dont want Miller messing up our locker room

 

[Arsenalogist24]

That is BRUTAL trade for the Flyers.

That’s an actual tanking trade. We’ll see them fall down the standings now. Never should’ve been above us for so long

 

[Rehabguy]

How the team is performing is the most important thing though. So the question is, why does the team perform worse when he's in the lineup than without him? The follow up question is how can the team perform at a higher level with him in the lineup? If the answer is that it can't, then he's a net negative even if he's performing well when he's on the ice. If the answer is that they can, they need to finally do it.

Like most things, I don't think there's a singular reason for it. I do think some of it is what you're mentioning, other players stepping up. A secondary thing is that he logs a lot of ice time, so he's taking time away from everyone else and not necessarily playing a simple game that allows others to get into the flow of the game by giving them touches. He seems to be a very difficult player to play with because of the unique way he wants to play.

If the rest of the team just needs more touches and/or slightly different roles, trading him for a more traditional player could prove to be beneficial for the team as a whole. If the rest of the team can't maintain that level of play for an extended period of time then it'd be unwise to trade him for a potentially worse player.

Instead of sticking our heads in the sand we (or Isles management) should be trying to figure out how and why this is happening, because it has happened over a pretty decent sample size at this point.

You are making the most fundamental error in statistics. Correlation does not equal causation.

That’s like saying every time the sun comes up I notice a leaf falls from the tree. So if we stop the sun from coming up maybe that will solve the problem because our stats show there is a correlation between the two.

Why the team performs worse statistically when Barzal is in the lineup may have nothing to do with Barzal at all. It all be due to chance or there could be other factors that have nothing to do with something Barzal himself is doing.

What if you had an effortometer to determine how hard the rest of the team is playing when Barzal is playing and you notice it goes down because they expect him to take the burden of the teams offense on himself. The problem is not Barzal- it’s the team. It’s a team game.

But someone would look at this foolishly and assume oh that means Barzal is a very flawed player.

It’s ridiculous. If you don’t understand the fundamentals of statistics don’t use them to support your arguments.

 

[impaaaaaact]

You are making the most fundamental error in statistics. Correlation does not equal causation.

That’s like saying every time the sun comes up I notice a leaf falls from the tree. So if we stop the sun from coming up maybe that will solve the problem because our stats show there is a correlation between the two.

Why the team performs worse statistically when Barzal is in the lineup may have nothing to do with Barzal at all. It all be due to chance or there could be other factors that have nothing to do with something Barzal himself is doing.

What if you had an effortometer to determine how hard the rest of the team is playing when Barzal is playing and you notice it goes down because they expect him to take the burden of the teams offense on himself. The problem is not Barzal- it’s the team. It’s a team game.

But someone would look at this foolishly and assume oh that means Barzal is a very flawed player.

It’s ridiculous. If you don’t understand the fundamentals of statistics don’t use them to support your arguments.

i was going to say it might just be a small sample size thing. Still, it’s interesting. They’ve definitely been better with him this season, at least in the W/L column

 

[PK Cronin]

You are making the most fundamental error in statistics. Correlation does not equal causation.

That’s like saying every time the sun comes up I notice a leaf falls from the tree. So if we stop the sun from coming up maybe that will solve the problem because our stats show there is a correlation between the two.

Nope, it's nothing like this.

Why the team performs worse statistically when Barzal is in the lineup may have nothing to do with Barzal at all. It all be due to chance or there could be other factors that have nothing to do with something Barzal himself is doing.

It's almost as if I said that: "I don't think there's a singular reason for it."

What if you had an effortometer to determine how hard the rest of the team is playing when Barzal is playing and you notice it goes down because they expect him to take the burden of the teams offense on himself. The problem is not Barzal- it’s the team. It’s a team game.

But we don't have that and it's irrelevant anyway. Assume it's true, which I also mention being a possibility, it doesn't mean you keep Barzal because he's individually better than everyone else if it negatively impacts the team. It's a team game, the team is most important, if keeping Barzal makes 20 other guys lazy then it's worth exploring moving on from him.

But someone would look at this foolishly and assume oh that means Barzal is a very flawed player.

He is.

It’s ridiculous. If you don’t understand the fundamentals of statistics don’t use them to support your arguments.

When you finally post any evidence or statistics that back up your claims then I might finally believe you have some idea about them. As of now, you don't ever provide anything other than assertions and you fail to provide any hard evidence.

 

[Tres Peleches]

This thread reads as scintillating as a greatest hits compilation of me complaining about referees

 

[Strummergas]

This thread reads as scintillating as a greatest hits compilation of me complaining about referees

With the part of Bones being played by the resident bullshit artist troll.

 

[leeroggy]

This thread reads as scintillating as a greatest hits compilation of me complaining about referees

Things That Are Worse:

Taylor Swift's Greatest Hits
Sour Milk long before expiration date
Hearing "Rangers Goal" by Sam Rosen
Lawyers advertising for class action suits

 

[Glorydays22]

Islanders are winning - they are 9-2 in the last 11 games!
I was so sure they were done. They need to grab 3 of the possible 4 points in Florida.

ALSO - DeAngelo played 28 minutes?! tonight.

All this talk about EP40, when I think Miller would be the better fit and costs 3.6 less and with fewer years... might also cost less to acquire.

Here is something to think about (or Flame) -

JT Miller, C, 31, (turning 32 in March) 5 years after this one @ 8 AAV
Tom Willander, RHD, 19, (10th OA pick in 2023) unsigned playing in NCAA
for
Noah Dobson, RHD, 25, RFA next season - projected signed 8x8
Danny Nelson, C, 19, (2nd round pick in 2022) unsigned in NCAA
Pierre Engvall, LW, 5 years after this one @ 3 AAV
2025 2nd round pick

1. Lee - Horvat - Barzal
2. Tsyplakov - Miller - Holmstrom
3. Duclair - Nelson - Palmieri
4. Cizikas - Pageau - ????

OR they could move Miller to LW and Cizikas back to C.

That is a very good forward group!

PS – If it were up to me, I'd rather trade Nelson—or the assets from a Nelson deal—for Miller than give up Dobson.

I want no part of Miller for his contract, age and his attutide and being a locker room issue. If I'm dealing Dobson, it's ONLY for a young star player coming back.

 

[Rehabguy]

i was going to say it might just be a small sample size thing. Still, it’s interesting. They’ve definitely been better with him this season, at least in the W/L column

Yeah it all boils down to be careful what you read on the internet. This falls under that category. It doesn't matter what I say. I will never appease certain people. Many times I tell myself, don't even bother but the more I try to explain something the worse the responses get. I could play dumb but that would be a disservice to some posters being misled by a few peoples opinions that they try to support with nonsense. My suggestion to everyone. Just be positive. Support the team. There will be a time when a rebuild is necessary that could be now or later but I'm rooting for the Isles through the thick and thin.

 

[boredmale]

I really think we can see Nelson and Engvall in a deal for Elias Pettersson

A playoff rental and a cap dump for Pettersson? I don't follow the Canucks that much but surely Pettersson's value is worth way more then that

 

[impaaaaaact]

So, 3/4 of the teams ahead of us won last night against the best of the west. Having a lot of fun watching the team win and it’s fun watching new guys breathe life into the team… but if we’re being honest we’ve been getting carried by Sorokin and Hogberg for a month. Who knows how long that lasts with Sorokin’s history of falling apart without a backup.

Still think we should sell, and if we can grab one of the Vancouver guys we should. Still like the idea of trying to pry Byfield from LA, but that’s probably unlikely. For those interested, here is the UFA center class this upcoming summer:

- John Tavares (not signing here)
- Brock Nelson (not signing here)
- Matt Duchene (not signing here)

… and that’s it! So yeah, either we are splitting up Barzal and Horvat when it’s been shown to be in both of their best interest to play together, promoting someone internally (who?), or making a huge trade.

I want no part of Miller for his contract, age and his attutide and being a locker room issue. If I'm dealing Dobson, it's ONLY for a young star player coming back.

What if we can trade Pulock + for Miller?

 

[MJF]

if Perunavich and DeAngelo are part of future plans then trade Dobson at the draft for a good forward .

As good as he is I dont want Miller messing up our locker room

I don't see Perunovich being part of a future here yet. If DeAngelo can remain a good teammate he would be a good addition. He replaces the offensive capabilities that Reilly has.

 

[Glorydays22]

So, 3/4 of the teams ahead of us won last night against the best of the west. Having a lot of fun watching the team win and it’s fun watching new guys breathe life into the team… but if we’re being honest we’ve been getting carried by Sorokin and Hogberg for a month. Who knows how long that lasts with Sorokin’s history of falling apart without a backup.

Still think we should sell, and if we can grab one of the Vancouver guys we should. Still like the idea of trying to pry Byfield from LA, but that’s probably unlikely. For those interested, here is the UFA center class this upcoming summer:

- John Tavares (not signing here)
- Brock Nelson (not signing here)
- Matt Duchene (not signing here)

… and that’s it! So yeah, either we are splitting up Barzal and Horvat when it’s been shown to be in both of their best interest to play together, promoting someone internally (who?), or making a huge trade.


What if we can trade Pulock + for Miller?

I don't want Miller and his baggage at all. I say if the Isles want to move either (not both) Pulock or Dobson, let's get a good young player back. Winnipeg wants Pulock bad..we can get one of their good youngsters and a pick. For Dobson, you run the gambit of a bunch of good players i.e - EP40, Pinto, Norris, Larkin (maybe), maybe one of the Sharks young top fowards...so may options.

 

[impaaaaaact]

I don't want Miller and his baggage at all. I say if the Isles want to move either (not both) Pulock or Dobson, let's get a good young player back. Winnipeg wants Pulock bad..we can get one of their good youngsters and a pick. For Dobson, you run the gambit of a bunch of good players i.e - EP40, Pinto, Norris, Larkin (maybe), maybe one of the Sharks young top fowards...so may options.

Pretty large value range there. I agree though, right now you need to move one of the RHD and get back a potential 2C.

Although, FWIW the Lee-Pageau-Barzal line was fire earlier this season. A top six of those three plus Tsyplakov/Horvat/Holmstrom is pretty hard to stomach though… especially if your top defenseman is Alex Romanov

 

[saintunspecified]

That’s an actual tanking trade. We’ll see them fall down the standings now. Never should’ve been above us for so long

It only makes sense if one assumes that Farabee was a dump. In fact, dealing Farabee is the least mysterious part of the deal. To me, he doesn't look right. To say that he looks down is kind of an understatement, which makes me wonder. If it's just a beef with the coach, it's a REALLY bad move. But I wonder if there's something more.

Including Frost otoh is imo insane. Like, yeah, he's probably playing way above where he should. He's no first line C. But it's not his fault he's in that role. Like, yeah, he made some mistakes. But players who play too much make mistakes, particularly on back to backs. Seems crazy, and overreactive.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Cap jumping by 25% over next three years. Mcdavid, Marner, Matthews Hughes, Rantanen about to get PAID

 

[Glorydays22]

Pretty large value range there. I agree though, right now you need to move one of the RHD and get back a potential 2C.

Although, FWIW the Lee-Pageau-Barzal line was fire earlier this season. A top six of those three plus Tsyplakov/Horvat/Holmstrom is pretty hard to stomach though… especially if your top defenseman is Alex Romanov

Yes, Dobson gives you that large range to go after a boatload of players. So many teams would be interested in him. Young RD with great offesive skills. Problem is if you move him, where is your offense coming from the back end? Not Pulock, Pelech and Mayfield. George is too young and I'm not sold on his offense upside. Tony D? its way to early to say, he's been with so many teams for a reason. Can you count on that full-time going forward? not sure. No one else in our system that can give us offense. So maybe the leesor of two evils is to see what you get get for Pulock (Bourque and a pick). I thought I heard Ott liked him...Could it be a Pinto swap? Dallas? Winnipeg I know likes him but who do you want? those younsters I don't believe are ready to step in (Lambert, Barlow - I like Chibrikov but he's a winger)

 

[seabass45]

These are massive bumps, and might have an impact on trade value of a lot of players signed for awhile.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Yes, Dobson gives you that large range to go after a boatload of players. So many teams would be interested in him. Young RD with great offesive skills. Problem is if you move him, where is your offense coming from the back end? Not Pulock, Pelech and Mayfield. George is too young and I'm not sold on his offense upside. Tony D? its way to early to say, he's been with so many teams for a reason. Can you count on that full-time going forward? not sure. No one else in our system that can give us offense. So maybe the leesor of two evils is to see what you get get for Pulock (Bourque and a pick). I thought I heard Ott liked him...Could it be a Pinto swap? Dallas? Winnipeg I know likes him but who do you want? those younsters I don't believe are ready to step in (Lambert, Barlow - I like Chibrikov but he's a winger)

I agree that you keep Dobson if you can. Seeing the cap numbers makes me way way less concerned about giving him a 7M-8M contract. In three years 8M will take up as much of the cap as about 6M does now, and it will likely keep rising after that.

 

[impaaaaaact]

This also comes with a new fun thought; which owners are going to spend to the cap? Is spending an extra 30M worth it if you’re losing in the first round? Have you budgeted for it? I bet this throws the entire league for a loop

 

[Rehabguy]

Yes, Dobson gives you that large range to go after a boatload of players. So many teams would be interested in him. Young RD with great offesive skills. Problem is if you move him, where is your offense coming from the back end? Not Pulock, Pelech and Mayfield. George is too young and I'm not sold on his offense upside. Tony D? its way to early to say, he's been with so many teams for a reason. Can you count on that full-time going forward? not sure. No one else in our system that can give us offense. So maybe the leesor of two evils is to see what you get get for Pulock (Bourque and a pick). I thought I heard Ott liked him...Could it be a Pinto swap? Dallas? Winnipeg I know likes him but who do you want? those younsters I don't believe are ready to step in (Lambert, Barlow - I like Chibrikov but he's a winger)

I like what Tony D and Pernovich appear to bring to the Islanders D but it may be too early. Dobson plays a soft defensive game so replacing him with these two might not make weaken the Islanders D that much. The two of them are awful small though.

 

[MJF]

Cap jumping by 25% over next three years. Mcdavid, Marner, Matthews Hughes, Rantanen about to get PAID

Lou finally gets a cap number to fit the team he built.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Things That Are Worse:

Taylor Swift's Greatest Hits
Sour Milk long before expiration date
Hearing "Rangers Goal" by Sam Rosen
Lawyers advertising for class action suits

This one stands out as clearly the worst