Zeeker
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- Feb 15, 2016
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Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build
- Thread starter PK Cronin
- Start date
Don’t know if any one subscribes to the Isles Fix newsletter but this was really well done today, IMO
“Almost any hope and/or optimism you have about this roster, and that’s hard to come by right now, is because of the ‘remember when’ factor. It’s attributable to the Hall-of-Fame executive GM, the all-time great goaltender that’s the coach, and a core group of players with an increasingly distant track record of being a team built for the postseason and capable of deep playoff runs.
If the only reason to be optimistic about a team is what’s happened in the past rather than what is possible, it’s probably time to start changing the conversation.
Remembering when Pelech/Pulock was a shutdown pair, Ilya Sorokin was a Vezina Finalist, and Lou Lamoriello built Stanley Cup champions hasn’t been enough to make the future feel any brighter. The Islanders need to give us reason to believe there will be something new to reminisce about one day instead of discussing what was and a predictor of what will be again.”
Time for change
“Almost any hope and/or optimism you have about this roster, and that’s hard to come by right now, is because of the ‘remember when’ factor. It’s attributable to the Hall-of-Fame executive GM, the all-time great goaltender that’s the coach, and a core group of players with an increasingly distant track record of being a team built for the postseason and capable of deep playoff runs.
If the only reason to be optimistic about a team is what’s happened in the past rather than what is possible, it’s probably time to start changing the conversation.
Remembering when Pelech/Pulock was a shutdown pair, Ilya Sorokin was a Vezina Finalist, and Lou Lamoriello built Stanley Cup champions hasn’t been enough to make the future feel any brighter. The Islanders need to give us reason to believe there will be something new to reminisce about one day instead of discussing what was and a predictor of what will be again.”
Time for change
doublechili
For all intensive purposes, your nuts
- Apr 11, 2006
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I don't disagree with a lot of your post. And the "rebuild vs. retool" semantics can get hazy. But the need to draft in the top 5 is probably the biggest sticking point between the two "camps" and the defining difference between the descriptive words we use (rebuild, retool, etc.). And I appreciate your honesty and precision in specifically advocating for a tear down. I disagree and think you can build a Cup contender by doing a smart retool without having top 5 picks. Now part of that is trading an asset in a down year or when they're on the downside of production where you can get an extra pick and/or a prospect (Nelson this year is a perfect example of this). So while you may not be drafting top 5, you mostly need to keep your picks and try to add some extras to increase the odds of hitting on a prospect. No guarantee in a retool either. It also requires a top notch GM and scouting staff.
And it's hard to have the conversation about not needing top 5 picks without pointing out instances where a player picked in the teens turned out better than a top 5 pick. Or pointing out that draft day is a snapshot of a fluid process, and you have a guy like Eiserman who was a candidate for the top overall pick 9 months before he was picked at #20.
Ironically, Lou is probably more suited to run a tear down rebuild than he is to be a modern constantly retooling GM, because the rebuild is a more straightforward process and takes time and patience. So I guess we all agree that he's not the guy to move forward.
Zeeker
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‘Remember when’ is the lowest form of conversation
how 'bout "To remember what was..".....and read it in a British accent.
That was my point
Their GM was able to quickly add top end talent
Lou has never added that
Ownership will have to determine if Lou, the team's lack of success and a positive trajectory, or Long Island itself is why high skill UFAs snub the Islanders.
Torrey Redux
Please!
I appreciate the thoughtful response. I don't know if you saw my other post and you are well tuned in to the NHL so you don't need me to tell you, but look at the recent Cup winners, in fact every Cup winner in the cap era. Every one of them, every one, without exception, including the St. Louis Blues (often cited as an outlier) had a top 5 pick on the roster and as a key contributor, and more often than not, multiple top 5 picks. In fact, all but three of them had just that, multiple top 5 picks.
It flies in the face of reality and factual history to deny that you need elite players to win Cups and those elite players (even if other elite players are found later in the draft) come in the top 5 of the draft. It's right there in black and white. And so to think that the non-free agent destination and perennially mismanaged Islanders are going to somehow buck that reality and turn things around in a couple of years (though 'turn around to what?' would be a valid question because to turn things around you have to have been there before and this team hasn't been there in 40 years), is just, I'm sorry, willful blindness and wishful thinking.
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How many of those top 5 picks you’ve researched have been drafted by the cup wining team?
periferal
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- Jul 5, 2007
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Oh. Your post didn't fill in the details so it could have been interpreted different ways. Glad you agree.
Torrey Redux
Please!
periferal
Registered User
- Jul 5, 2007
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What is that? Can you share?
Just remember...This was the Trotz era where the success was (with essentially snow's team). Almost every one of Lou's moves was average at best, if not bad/poor. Lou didn't "build" this roster as much as he tweaked it, bled it, and now backed it into a corner of which the only way out might be a rebuild.
The Real JT
The crowd called out for more
While we can point towards players like Nelson, Barzal, Lee and Sorokin as players who have outperformed based on their draft status, I’d say as a whole our drafting has been subpar for decades. Our biggest misfires have obviously been with our top 5 picks but that’s on our scouts and not on the lack of value in drafting at that position.
As far as trading assets, I’d take it a step further. The time to trade them is when they are aging and had a big year. If you wait even another 6-12 months, the value may just evaporate. That doesn’t even take into account the risk of injury. It takes balls to make moves like that but if Nelly and Palms continue to go cold then our return may be underwhelming.
Curious. Perhaps there are other ways to win a cup without the winning team drafting in the top 5
Torrey Redux
Please!
What's curious about it? I didn't say anything about who did the drafting, I said those Cup winning teams, every one of them, had top 5 draft picks as cornerstones of their respective teams. Who drafted them originally is irrelevant. They all lived up to their pedigree and were major contributors to Cups.
I previously said what’s curious, and your standard reply is ‘that’s irrelevant’. You’ve already done all the research. Share your spreadsheet or links.
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Torrey Redux
Please!
No, you didn't. You just wrote "curious" and then mused that their might be other ways to win the Cup without spelling out what those are for a franchise like the Islanders. Nor have you explained the relevance of which team drafted those players.
As for a spreadsheet and links, it might be a challenge for you but perhaps your curiosity and/or skepticism are great enough for you to see if you can find your way to HockeyDB or one of the many other sites purveying such information. In short, I don't deliver. Good luck.
