Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[Zeeker]

They need a statement game. A game where they lineup is healthy and they are able to score on the Power play and they win big. If they do that...they have a chance to salvage the season and give fans something to look forward to.

Hello ChatGPT

 

[Arsenalogist24]

Don’t know if any one subscribes to the Isles Fix newsletter but this was really well done today, IMO

“Almost any hope and/or optimism you have about this roster, and that’s hard to come by right now, is because of the ‘remember when’ factor. It’s attributable to the Hall-of-Fame executive GM, the all-time great goaltender that’s the coach, and a core group of players with an increasingly distant track record of being a team built for the postseason and capable of deep playoff runs.

If the only reason to be optimistic about a team is what’s happened in the past rather than what is possible, it’s probably time to start changing the conversation.

Remembering when Pelech/Pulock was a shutdown pair, Ilya Sorokin was a Vezina Finalist, and Lou Lamoriello built Stanley Cup champions hasn’t been enough to make the future feel any brighter. The Islanders need to give us reason to believe there will be something new to reminisce about one day instead of discussing what was and a predictor of what will be again.”

Time for change

 

[Isles72]

Don’t know if any one subscribes to the Isles Fix newsletter but this was really well done today, IMO

“Almost any hope and/or optimism you have about this roster, and that’s hard to come by right now, is because of the ‘remember when’ factor. It’s attributable to the Hall-of-Fame executive GM, the all-time great goaltender that’s the coach, and a core group of players with an increasingly distant track record of being a team built for the postseason and capable of deep playoff runs.

If the only reason to be optimistic about a team is what’s happened in the past rather than what is possible, it’s probably time to start changing the conversation.

Remembering when Pelech/Pulock was a shutdown pair, Ilya Sorokin was a Vezina Finalist, and Lou Lamoriello built Stanley Cup champions hasn’t been enough to make the future feel any brighter. The Islanders need to give us reason to believe there will be something new to reminisce about one day instead of discussing what was and a predictor of what will be again.”

Time for change

I hope he's going to be ok .

 

[doublechili]

I think I can speak for anyone advocating for a tear down, not one of us is harboring any illusions of guaranteed success. We know that rebuilds are risky and require a combination of smarts and luck, so please, stop writing "there are no guarantees" or printing lists of draft busts. We know.

Here's what is guaranteed though; doing what Lou has been doing and will seemingly continue to do is a guarantee of continued failure. To be a great team you need cornerstone elite players and being a middle of the pack team ad infinitum, unattractive to FAs and unable to draft in top 5 position ever, you will never get there.

I don't disagree with a lot of your post. And the "rebuild vs. retool" semantics can get hazy. But the need to draft in the top 5 is probably the biggest sticking point between the two "camps" and the defining difference between the descriptive words we use (rebuild, retool, etc.). And I appreciate your honesty and precision in specifically advocating for a tear down. I disagree and think you can build a Cup contender by doing a smart retool without having top 5 picks. Now part of that is trading an asset in a down year or when they're on the downside of production where you can get an extra pick and/or a prospect (Nelson this year is a perfect example of this). So while you may not be drafting top 5, you mostly need to keep your picks and try to add some extras to increase the odds of hitting on a prospect. No guarantee in a retool either. It also requires a top notch GM and scouting staff.

And it's hard to have the conversation about not needing top 5 picks without pointing out instances where a player picked in the teens turned out better than a top 5 pick. Or pointing out that draft day is a snapshot of a fluid process, and you have a guy like Eiserman who was a candidate for the top overall pick 9 months before he was picked at #20.

Ironically, Lou is probably more suited to run a tear down rebuild than he is to be a modern constantly retooling GM, because the rebuild is a more straightforward process and takes time and patience. So I guess we all agree that he's not the guy to move forward.

 

[Zeeker]

Don’t know if any one subscribes to the Isles Fix newsletter but this was really well done today, IMO

“Almost any hope and/or optimism you have about this roster, and that’s hard to come by right now, is because of the ‘remember when’ factor.

‘Remember when’ is the lowest form of conversation

 

[Lek]

‘Remember when’ is the lowest form of conversation

how 'bout "To remember what was..".....and read it in a British accent.

 

[MJF]

‘Remember when’ is the lowest form of conversation

You're right Tone

 

[12Dog]

If you're attempting to make an apples to apples comparison between the Panthers and Isles - Don't.

While their GM was leverging the future to add top end/elite/great players like Reinhart, Bennett, and Tkachuck...Our GM was leverging the future to add players like Pageau, Palmeiri, and Romanov. You may even love all those players, but the talent difference is massive. Then add in Trotz leaving and it was game over right at that moment.

That's why the panthers have a Cup and are contenders again this season...While we're going to be a lottery team.

That was my point
Their GM was able to quickly add top end talent
Lou has never added that

 

[Arsenalogist24]

You're right Tone

Hahah, that’s exactly how the newsletter started

 

[MJF]

That was my point
Their GM was able to quickly add top end talent
Lou has never added that

Ownership will have to determine if Lou, the team's lack of success and a positive trajectory, or Long Island itself is why high skill UFAs snub the Islanders.

 

[Torrey Redux]

I don't disagree with a lot of your post. And the "rebuild vs. retool" semantics can get hazy. But the need to draft in the top 5 is probably the biggest sticking point between the two "camps" and the defining difference between the descriptive words we use (rebuild, retool, etc.). And I appreciate your honesty and precision in specifically advocating for a tear down. I disagree and think you can build a Cup contender by doing a smart retool without having top 5 picks. Now part of that is trading an asset in a down year or when they're on the downside of production where you can get an extra pick and/or a prospect (Nelson this year is a perfect example of this). So while you may not be drafting top 5, you mostly need to keep your picks and try to add some extras to increase the odds of hitting on a prospect. No guarantee in a retool either. It also requires a top notch GM and scouting staff.

And it's hard to have the conversation about not needing top 5 picks without pointing out instances where a player picked in the teens turned out better than a top 5 pick. Or pointing out that draft day is a snapshot of a fluid process, and you have a guy like Eiserman who was a candidate for the top overall pick 9 months before he was picked at #20.

Ironically, Lou is probably more suited to run a tear down rebuild than he is to be a modern constantly retooling GM, because the rebuild is a more straightforward process and takes time and patience. So I guess we all agree that he's not the guy to move forward.

I appreciate the thoughtful response. I don't know if you saw my other post and you are well tuned in to the NHL so you don't need me to tell you, but look at the recent Cup winners, in fact every Cup winner in the cap era. Every one of them, every one, without exception, including the St. Louis Blues (often cited as an outlier) had a top 5 pick on the roster and as a key contributor, and more often than not, multiple top 5 picks. In fact, all but three of them had just that, multiple top 5 picks.

It flies in the face of reality and factual history to deny that you need elite players to win Cups and those elite players (even if other elite players are found later in the draft) come in the top 5 of the draft. It's right there in black and white. And so to think that the non-free agent destination and perennially mismanaged Islanders are going to somehow buck that reality and turn things around in a couple of years, because to turn things around you have to have been there before and this team hasn't been there in 40 years, is just, I'm sorry, but just plain willful blindness and wishful thinking.

 

[Big L]

I appreciate the thoughtful response. I don't know if you saw my other post and you are well tuned in to the NHL so you don't need me to tell you, but look at the recent Cup winners, in fact every Cup winner in the cap era. Every one of them, every one, without exception, including the St. Louis Blues (often cited as an outlier) had a top 5 pick on the roster and as a key contributor, and more often than not, multiple top 5 picks. In fact, all but three of them had just that, multiple top 5 picks.

It flies in the face of reality and factual history to deny that you need elite players to win Cups and those elite players (even if other elite players are found later in the draft) come in the top 5 of the draft. It's right there in black and white. And so to think that the non-free agent destination and perennially mismanaged Islanders are going to somehow buck that reality and turn things around in a couple of years, because to turn things around you have to have been there before and this team hasn't been there in 40 years, is just, I'm sorry, but just plain willful blindness and wishful thinking.

How many of those top 5 picks you’ve researched have been drafted by the cup wining team?

 

[periferal]

That was my point
Their GM was able to quickly add top end talent
Lou has never added that

Oh. Your post didn't fill in the details so it could have been interpreted different ways. Glad you agree.

 

[Torrey Redux]

How many of those top 5 picks you’ve researched have been drafted by the cup wining team?

I'm not sure why that matters, but at a glance, the vast majority.

 

[periferal]

Don’t know if any one subscribes to the Isles Fix newsletter but this was really well done today, IMO

What is that? Can you share?

Remembering when Pelech/Pulock was a shutdown pair, Ilya Sorokin was a Vezina Finalist, and Lou Lamoriello built Stanley Cup champions hasn’t been enough to make the future feel any brighter. The Islanders need to give us reason to believe there will be something new to reminisce about one day instead of discussing what was and a predictor of what will be again.”

Just remember...This was the Trotz era where the success was (with essentially snow's team). Almost every one of Lou's moves was average at best, if not bad/poor. Lou didn't "build" this roster as much as he tweaked it, bled it, and now backed it into a corner of which the only way out might be a rebuild.

 

[The Real JT]

…I disagree and think you can build a Cup contender by doing a smart retool without having top 5 picks. Now part of that is trading an asset in a down year or when they're on the downside of production where you can get an extra pick and/or a prospect (Nelson this year is a perfect example of this). So while you may not be drafting top 5, you mostly need to keep your picks and try to add some extras to increase the odds of hitting on a prospect. No guarantee in a retool either. It also requires a top notch GM and scouting staff.

And it's hard to have the conversation about not needing top 5 picks without pointing out instances where a player picked in the teens turned out better than a top 5 pick. Or pointing out that draft day is a snapshot of a fluid process, and you have a guy like Eiserman who was a candidate for the top overall pick 9 months before he was picked at #20.

Ironically, Lou is probably more suited to run a tear down rebuild than he is to be a modern constantly retooling GM, because the rebuild is a more straightforward process and takes time and patience. So I guess we all agree that he's not the guy to move forward.

While we can point towards players like Nelson, Barzal, Lee and Sorokin as players who have outperformed based on their draft status, I’d say as a whole our drafting has been subpar for decades. Our biggest misfires have obviously been with our top 5 picks but that’s on our scouts and not on the lack of value in drafting at that position.

As far as trading assets, I’d take it a step further. The time to trade them is when they are aging and had a big year. If you wait even another 6-12 months, the value may just evaporate. That doesn’t even take into account the risk of injury. It takes balls to make moves like that but if Nelly and Palms continue to go cold then our return may be underwhelming.