Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[SI90]

Lmao

 

[Torrey Redux]

The succession plan is to fire him immediately and then hire anyone without his last name as an interim or permanent GM.

I don’t think it’s necessary to say nice things about our 2 Cup runs while he was GM. My retort would be to say “What have you done for me lately?” Nada.

One last note. I blame the owners more than Lou. They have accommodated Lou and been far too hands off in their oversight. Clearly this is not in their skill set, but that’s also not a great excuse.

When did we have two Cup runs? Cup runs are when you run to the Cup. We never did that and to the degree that we came somewhat close, they were wind-aided. So yes, I agree, we don't need to say nice things about them. And we especially don't need to say nice things about them because they sewed the seeds for where we are now. I keep referring to it and I hope he doesn't mind, but @MJF has summed up so perfectly the situation with a line that should, in my opinion, be memorialized somewhere, somehow because of its perfection. "Lou has been trying to win the 2021 Stanley Cup for four years". That's the whole thing in a nutshell. He saw a flawed team go further than it had any right to under highly unusual circumstances and misread what he was seeing. He took it to mean that we were great and just a step away, well worthy of selling the future to double and triple down on what was actually mediocre. When the fans do that, it is perfectly natural. Their not the supposed experts, they just want to win and see their team go far. But when the GM does it, gambles away the milk money on an illusion, that's unforgivable.

 

[Throttle]

When are the Rangers writing that letter to the fans again? I know some people around here really liked that the first time.

 

[islesfan3913]

I love how the Rangers just can’t help but shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly despite every single thing breaking their way. They were gifted the first and second overall picks in back to back years, had players either force themselves there or refuse to play anywhere else like Panarin and Fox, got bailed out by the Ducks taking Trouba for some reason, and they still can’t find maintained success or a way out of the situation they’re in. You just love to see it.

 

[BelovedIsles]

I’d start a tear down now. This current lineup is too good to actually hit that top-4 marker (wont go with top-5, never seemed to work). I like what Grier is doing, I’d model off of him (to an extent).

I’d keep certain players (calculated), given their age and developmental curve; eg Holmstrom. There are a few players I’m on the fence about, eg Romanov/Dobson (both still raw). Barzal is tricky, as I do not see more development in his future (at least in an NYI context). In the right situation, as a secondary (or tertiary) piece, he could thrive.

Sorokin is a tough one; the only NYI I’d have a *real tough time parting ways with. He’s truly elite (with minor flaws). Interestingly enough, he was drafted by said NYI. Drafting is the way, though not completely.

Guys like Mac, Fasching are filler; so let them do their role; they fit a rebuild perfectly.

I’d keep Cizikas. He ALWAYS hugs the winning goalie. It speaks to me. It’s not a facade; he doesn’t cost much. He’s cheap, and a model of moving your ass at 100% (perhaps now, 85).

Most of those vets; they gotta go. Sprinkle a few in for youth stabilization.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Once again, the Isles waited too long. Now Kappo from the Rangers is the hot talks about him going to the Wild. Trade value of Nelson is going down, day by day. You'll see......

Lou once again is going to screw the isles. Nelson is invisible for most of this year. He's probably headed for his worst season (projected 25-25-50) in a while.

Lou resigns him for 6M for another 4 years....book it.

Kakko stinks and Seattle is hoping he lives up to his potential and didn’t trade anything for him. Nelson and Kakko are not comparable.

 

[LeapOnOver]

When everyone is healthy, I would like to see the following...

Tsyplakov-Horvat-Pageau
Lee-Nelson-Palmieri
MacLean-Barzal-Duclair
Engvall-Cizikas-Holmstrom

Pelech-Pulock
Romanov-Dobson
Cholowski/George-Mayfield

Why would you put one of our best players right now on the 4th line?!?!

Edit: I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as I haven't logged in for awhile and realize your lineup post is a bit outdated.

 

[BelovedIsles]

I’d start a tear down now. This current lineup is too good to actually hit that top-4 marker (wont go with top-5, never seemed to work). I like what Grier is doing, I’d model off of him (to an extent).

I’d keep certain players (calculated), given their age and developmental curve; eg Holmstrom. There are a few players I’m on the fence about, eg Romanov/Dobson (both still raw). Barzal is tricky, as I do not see more development in his future (at least in an NYI context). In the right situation, as a secondary (or tertiary) piece, he could thrive.

Sorokin is a tough one; the only NYI I’d have a *real tough time parting ways with. He’s truly elite (with minor flaws). Interestingly enough, he was drafted by said NYI. Drafting is the way, though not completely.

Guys like Mac, Fasching are filler; so let them do their role; they fit a rebuild perfectly.

I’d keep Cizikas. He ALWAYS hugs the winning goalie. It speaks to me. It’s not a facade; he doesn’t cost much. He’s cheap, and a model of moving your ass at 100% (perhaps now, 85).

Most of those vets; gotta go. Sprinkle a few in for the stabilization of the youth.

 

[seabass45]

Can we convince Seattle to trade Kakko for playoff warrior Casey Cizikas?

 

[Tahoeblue]

I think most of us know the best time for a rebuild was 2 plus years ago. I feel like the sputtering of both Detroit and Buffalo's resurgence allowed the Isles to sneak into the playoffs and therefore convince Lou the window was open. If those teams started to squeeze the Isles out, maybe Lou sees the writing on the wall and does what is needed.

Another poster earlier gave a list of about 8-9 teams and asked which of these teams do we catch to make the playoffs this year. The answer is none. It feels like it did a few seasons ago and the race in the east is starting to look cemented.

Another point relating to the failed resurgence of Detroit and Buffalo as many thought they would take the next step. I watched the Senators last night go on the road and shutout Seattle. I believe they have turned the corner and look to squeeze out older cap strapped teams like the Isles and Pens. They have some elite talent and can run a pp. The cold hard truth is that the music has stopped and the Isles have no where to sit.

I know teams look to add closer to the TDL as more salary comes off the books to allow the new team to take on less. My concern is the longer we keep and play our UFA's and other players, the more likelihood of an inj----. I am not going to jinx it.

 

[Chardo]

Kakko is way more of a bust than Wahlstrom. Or any recent Islanders 1st.

 

[Glorydays22]

Kakko stinks and Seattle is hoping he lives up to his potential and didn’t trade anything for him. Nelson and Kakko are not comparable.

Glad to see him going to Seattle but you can't ignore the age difference and that's what I'm worried about. A young talent who like Kakko who to me didn't really get a fair shake in NY might be more appealing to the Wild or Dallas if they have to give up picks and young prospects.

Kakko is way more of a bust than Wahlstrom. Or any recent Islanders 1st.

Lets see him play on a regular basis and regular line in Seattle before I agree with this statement

 

[Glorydays22]

That’s fair. I was trying to find an acceptable path forward where the Isles don’t want to pay Dobson $8/9M and can leverage him for another player and still keep Barzal.

Dobson’s contract is a real wild card for this team. If he turns into a Nurse/Jones clone, the Isles are in a rough spot.

To change this team, a major contracted forward needs to go, same with a defenseman. Adjusting the fringe ain’t gonna move the needle much.

I would just use Barzal for a player swap to end the ongoing misery of believing he’s anything more than a Alexei Kovalev - and you don’t build a competitive team around such a player.

I agree with Dobson, no way I'm I paying him 8-9M and if that's what he's demanding, then yes we need to move him. But I hope he and his agent realize with this season and how bad he's playing he can expect around 6-7M for his next deal with us.

Listen if there was a deal that would definitely help us long term by moving Brazal, I think we have no choice but to listen. I'm just not sure what tha possible deal looks like.

I understand moving all the dead wood won't move needle much. But it's neccesary that we move out their salaries and roster spots. And if Lou or Management is smart, we can still get good value in Nelson and Parms....But that clock is ticking FAST.

Lmao

One thing we have to give credit to the Rangers (hate to say it), but they are very willing to trade anyone regardless of popularity and willing to cut ties to players at a drop of a time if they think it will make them better. Not like Lou, he thinks these guys are is kids, his blood and would die first before trading them.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I agree with Dobson, no way I'm I paying him 8-9M and if that's what he's demanding, then yes we need to move him. But I hope he and his agent realize with this season and how bad he's playing he can expect around 6-7M for his next deal with us.

Listen if there was a deal that would definitely help us long term by moving Brazal, I think we have no choice but to listen. I'm just not sure what tha possible deal looks like.

I understand moving all the dead wood won't move needle much. But it's neccesary that we move out their salaries and roster spots. And if Lou or Management is smart, we can still get good value in Nelson and Parms....But that clock is ticking FAST.



One thing we have to give credit to the Rangers (hate to say it), but they are very willing to trade anyone regardless of popularity and willing to cut ties to players at a drop of a time if they think it will make them better. Not like Lou, he thinks these guys are is kids, his blood and would die first before trading them.

This seems like a GM exerting his authority, and not a move to make them better though. Ranger fans all seem to be taking KK side saying he isn't the problem and they seem really sour on Drury. From reactions, more than 70% hate it it seems.

 

[Thrasymachus]

I’d start a tear down now. This current lineup is too good to actually hit that top-4 marker (wont go with top-5, never seemed to work). I like what Grier is doing, I’d model off of him (to an extent).

I’d keep certain players (calculated), given their age and developmental curve; eg Holmstrom. There are a few players I’m on the fence about, eg Romanov/Dobson (both still raw). Barzal is tricky, as I do not see more development in his future (at least in an NYI context). In the right situation, as a secondary (or tertiary) piece, he could thrive.

Sorokin is a tough one; the only NYI I’d have a *real tough time parting ways with. He’s truly elite (with minor flaws). Interestingly enough, he was drafted by said NYI. Drafting is the way, though not completely.

Guys like Mac, Fasching are filler; so let them do their role; they fit a rebuild perfectly.

I’d keep Cizikas. He ALWAYS hugs the winning goalie. It speaks to me. It’s not a facade; he doesn’t cost much. He’s cheap, and a model of moving your ass at 100% (perhaps now, 85).

Most of those vets; they gotta go. Sprinkle a few in for youth stabilization.

Yeah I think Zeke would be a good veteran influence during a rebuild.

Sucks we are having these same conversations :/

I remember when we drafted the guy...

 

[leeroggy]

Yeah I think Zeke would be a good veteran influence during a rebuild.

Sucks we are having these same conversations :/

I remember when we drafted the guy...

Okay, so keeping Cizikas at $2,500,000 with no production is better than keeping Lee at $7 million, who is actually producing near that level? Lee is the leader of this team, not Casey. We'd be blessed if someone else would take him off our hands.

Always respected Casey's contributions and I have no problem with honoring him after retirement (848 games is nothing to sneeze at), but it's always 'just this one or that one' that keeps us from changing pieces.

 

[Torrey Redux]

It's pretty simple as far as I'm concerned, the people here who advocate for some kind of quick fix retool will always be content with the Islanders just being a playoff team. The people here who understand that a rebuild is necessary, and all of the time and pain and uncertainty that goes with it, will only be satisfied when the Islanders become a great team.

 

[Throttle]

This seems like a GM exerting his authority, and not a move to make them better though. Ranger fans all seem to be taking KK side saying he isn't the problem and they seem really sour on Drury. From reactions, more than 70% hate it it seems.

Drury is at the point where his moves need to show some results, otherwise, after he departs the Rangers his career as a GM is over.

It’s pretty rare in the game that a GM has $50M in his pocket and can be cavalier on his moves.

In the end, what’s the upside that Drury is going for?

 

[Glory Days]

It's pretty simple as far as I'm concerned, the people here who advocate for some kind of quick fix retool will always be content with the Islanders just being a playoff team. The people here who understand that a rebuild is necessary, and all of the time and pain and uncertainty that goes with it, will only be satisfied when the Islanders become a great team.

I guess it depends on how you define a retool. In my mind a retool involves moving every player over the age of 30 this season and next for draft picks. I would also explore moving Barzal for an established player of similar salary. There would likely need to be a buyout of at least one player. But I think if that were to happen the team could get younger and faster and back on track in relatively short order.

 

[Chardo]

The Rangers tore it down, rebuilt, and here they are scrambling again after not winning anything.

 

[Chockey22]

There are no guaranteed paths back to contention, as the team's stuck in perpetual rebuild clearly show. So, there's room for different approaches depending on what comes available. The obvious starting point is moving the UFA's Nelson and Palms and then seeing how things play out and who else becomes available. A full rebuild of the sort advocated by some is a risky path and I would think starts this summer with a trade of Sorokin. It makes zero sense to commit to a rebuild without moving the one piece that likely has pretty good value and will not be contributing when the rebuild comes to fruition.

 

[doublechili]

It's pretty simple as far as I'm concerned, the people here who advocate for some kind of quick fix retool will always be content with the Islanders just being a playoff team. The people here who understand that a rebuild is necessary, and all of the time and pain and uncertainty that goes with it, will only be satisfied when the Islanders become a great team.

I guess it is "simple" if you characterize it that way. But it's more complicated than that IMO, and there are more than those two options (tinkering with a couple of roster spots versus a tear-down rebuild). I think the way to go in the modern NHL with a salary cap and players potentially becoming UFAs in their 20s is to constantly retool to maximize asset value and replenish the pipeline. Lou is not a "new NHL" GM in that he moves at a glacial pace and was great back in the pre-Cap days when you could slowly build a roster. Now you need an active, intelligent GM who can constantly retool. IMO, anyway.

On a related note, the NYR got praise for their "rebuild" that enabled them to draft high for a time. But it's questionable whether Lafreniere is an elite/needle-moving talent, and Kakko was just traded for next to nothing. Kakko was taken 2nd overalll. The following players were taken after him that year:

4th Byram
6th Seider
7th Cozens
12th Boldy (maybe the 2d best player from that draft after #1 Hughes)
15th Caulfield
32nd Pinto

So, there's no guarantee a top 5 pick is going to get you a stud, and there's similarly no guarantee that you can't build a contender if you're picking later. Obviously the odds are better with high picks, but the key thing is to have the right GM and scouting staff.

 

[Chockey22]

It's pretty simple as far as I'm concerned, the people here who advocate for some kind of quick fix retool will always be content with the Islanders just being a playoff team. The people here who understand that a rebuild is necessary, and all of the time and pain and uncertainty that goes with it, will only be satisfied when the Islanders become a great team.

I don't think it's necessary to paint people with such broad strokes, just because not everyone is fully committed to a tear it down rebuild. There's lots of folks here who will only be content with the team being great but aren't necessarily in favor of trading pieces in their late 20's, like Barzal, Horvat and Sorokin for picks and prospects (those are the big pieces that I think would signal a full rebuild) to start a long and painful rebuild.

The reality is that maybe Nelson and Palms return late first round picks and/or B level prospects but these are hardly the keys to rebuilding. Even without those two, the team won't plummet and will probably still tick along at the current pace, ending up with picks perpetually in the 8-10 range. Emptying the team of high end talent to get to the bottom of the league will require getting rid of Sorokin, Barzal and Horvat. There's some days I think this might be the path to go, and others where I think that might not be necessary to get back to greatness.