Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[The Real JT]

I remember the good old days when Casey wasn't 1G/1A in 25 games . . . maybe he should stay home too

I’ve gotten more than my fair share of hot takes wrong but I hated that deal from the git go.

Despite the somewhat attractive lower AAV it was destined to be way too much term for a player with a style of play that typically doesn’t age well.

 

[Throttle]

I’ve gotten more than my fair share of hot takes wrong but I hated that deal from the git go.

Despite the somewhat attractive lower AAV it was destined to be way too much term for a player with a style of play that typically doesn’t age well.

I think a top 6 team in either conference would take him on at or near the deadline. He would be good for someone like Toronto on the ice and optically off of it.

 

[Glorydays22]

I remember the good old days when Casey wasn't 1G/1A in 25 games . . . maybe he should stay home too

I hear you, but Roy has no one to replace him or MacLean who has sucked this year. No one from bridgeport who can come up. Shit, that is why Lou brought back Martin.

Funny part is, and maybe I'm the only one. I still think Casey is a perfect fit at the TDL for a playoff team.

No one is going to tell me that - Parms, Nelson, Casey, and Pageau won't be positives for playoff teams to acquire. For me, the last two would I think would do well in a change of scenery

I just don't want Lou making these deals. He's going to get hosed on all/any of them!!

 

[The Real JT]

I hear you, but Roy has no one to replace him or MacLean who has sucked this year. No one from bridgeport who can come up. Shit, that is why Lou brought back Martin.

Funny part is, and maybe I'm the only one. I still think Casey is a perfect fit at the TDL for a playoff team.

No one is going to tell me that - Parms, Nelson, Casey, and Pageau won't be positives for playoff teams to acquire. For me, the last two would I think would do well in a change of scenery

I just don't want Lou making these deals. He's going to get hosed on all/any of them!!

I agree with pretty much everything you said though keep in mind the following. JGP and Cizikas might be attractive to a playoff team, but no one is taking either player without salary retention. 1/2 a season Palmieri or Nelson will return some assets though if the Isles retain salary on those two then our return will be even better.

It’s frankly too early to even discuss the TDL but here we are doing it, myself included.

 

[Throttle]

I agree with pretty much everything you said though keep in mind the following. JGP and Cizikas might be attractive to a playoff team, but no one is taking either player without salary retention. 1/2 a season Palmieri or Nelson will return some assets though if the Isles retain salary on those two then our return will be even better.

It’s frankly too early to even discuss the TDL but here we are doing it, myself included.

It’s not limited to retention, it could also just be salary coming back. Czikas is more than worth his contract at that price.

JGP cap hit is 5M, but his cash price is 4M this year and 3.5M next year. If you want assets, then you keep JGP, the. Flip him next year as a UFA (or in the summer).

 

[The Real JT]

It’s not limited to retention, it could also just be salary coming back. Czikas is more than worth his contract at that price.

JGP cap hit is 5M, but his cash price is 4M this year and 3.5M next year. If you want assets, then you keep JGP, the. Flip him next year as a UFA (or in the summer).

Fair point regarding the other option of us taking salary back. No reason to do that unless it’s for an expiring contract.

As for Casey having value, I agree that he might help fill in the gap for a contender on a fourth line, but he’s still way overpriced and has too much term.

 

[Throttle]

Fair point regarding the other option of us taking salary back. No reason to do that unless it’s for an expiring contract.

As for Casey having value, I agree that he might help fill in the gap for a contender on a fourth line, but he’s still way overpriced and has too much term.

If Lou is trading guys, he’s gonna need to get back some players with hope and dreams, so salary purposes, but also since the Isles don’t have budding players coming underneath.

On Casey, look around the nhl, at 2.5M for his role, it’s more than digestible. Add. In 70+ playoff games under his belt, he has value to a team looking to go deep.

 

[The Real JT]

If Lou is trading guys, he’s gonna need to get back some players with hope and dreams, so salary purposes, but also since the Isles don’t have budding players coming underneath.

On Casey, look around the nhl, at 2.5M for his role, it’s more than digestible. Add. In 70+ playoff games under his belt, he has value to a team looking to go deep.

Re Cizikas: In 3 months he’ll be 34 years old and he has 2 points in 25 games this year. Granted his linemates suck but his ice time is pretty much the same as it’s been for the last 8 years and his productivity is horrendous.

He’s not nearly the same guy you remember as the leader of the identity line and the guy who was one of the league’s best players on the PK.

Everyone gets old and in professional sports it’s painful to watch and hard to accept.

He’s not worthless but his value is now near a league minimum contract.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Certainly 100% speculation on my part but living in Montreal for all of Roy’s career and not loving his character , every quote had a hidden message or meaning , every interview that involved controversy, backed up my assessment. Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s the best thing for this franchise but don’t underestimate the subtle comments….

The French do tend to be blunt, so do the French Canadians.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I hear you, but Roy has no one to replace him or MacLean who has sucked this year. No one from bridgeport who can come up. Shit, that is why Lou brought back Martin.

Funny part is, and maybe I'm the only one. I still think Casey is a perfect fit at the TDL for a playoff team.

No one is going to tell me that - Parms, Nelson, Casey, and Pageau won't be positives for playoff teams to acquire. For me, the last two would I think would do well in a change of scenery

I just don't want Lou making these deals. He's going to get hosed on all/any of them!!

What deals has LL been hosed on?

Horvat trade is even at the least, a win at the most. Pageau deal can be considered a loss, I guess. Don't really remember what that draft pick turned into. The Palmeiri trade is definitely a win. The Romanov deal is a win. I don't really see LL not doing well in trades unless you are one of those "draft picks or bust" type of guys around here. I'm fine with moving on from LL, but not because of his trade history. He knows how to go all-in, just not what we need anymore.

 

[IslesNorway]

Re Cizikas: In 3 months he’ll be 34 years old and he has 2 points in 25 games this year. Granted his linemates suck but his ice time is pretty much the same as it’s been for the last 8 years and his productivity is horrendous.

He’s not nearly the same guy you remember as the leader of the identity line and the guy who was one of the league’s best players on the PK.

Everyone gets old and in professional sports it’s painful to watch and hard to accept.

He’s not worthless but his value is now near a league minimum contract.

Count us lucky we haven't got a lot of those types of contracts

 

[SI]

What deals has LL been hosed on?

Horvat trade is even at the least, a win at the most. Pageau deal can be considered a loss, I guess. Don't really remember what that draft pick turned into. The Palmeiri trade is definitely a win. The Romanov deal is a win. I don't really see LL not doing well in trades unless you are one of those "draft picks or bust" type of guys around here. I'm fine with moving on from LL, but not because of his trade history. He knows how to go all-in, just not what we need anymore.

I don't agree with the bolded - JGP was a big part of those 2 ECF runs. The pick was Ridley Greig.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I don't agree with the bolded - JGP was a big part of those 2 ECF runs. The pick was Ridley Greig.

Yeah, I mean I was trying to give the OP some rope. The JGP deal was not a bad trade, especially with that pick. I think the contract was not so great, that's all.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

You say, "What's become of Wahlstrom," as if he was ever good. He played very well as a teenager when you can outplay opponents just because you are bigger/more talented then them.

However when you reach the NHL everyone is talented (the best in the world), so you have to have smarts/hockey sense to be successful - And Wahlstrom simply doesn't have that. And I also think some teams/scouts learned during the scouting process that Wahlstrom had no hockey sense and that's why he didn't go higher.

Thus he was never good in the NHL and just stayed at that level.

Whereas I don't really disagree with any of this in general, he certainly looked A LOT different when he went 12-9-21 in 44 games and added on 3 points in 5 playoff games.

You saw visible promise. Those are decent stats for just about any rookie in this league.

And when he went down with that ACL tear, he had done a few nice things that season while looking like a trigger guy in the Ovechkin spot on the PP. He just was a lot more ready to unload his shot. He had a + rating and was on pace for over 35 points.

He has been NOTHING like that since.

I had never really been a fan of his, but now he's totally different than in those first three NHL seasons when it was at least looking like he could be a 35-point 3rd liner who throws a big check here or there.

Now he just looks like he's struggling being in this league. His lack of wherewithal and his propensity for finding himself behind the play looks like it'll even prevent him from maybe etching out a 4th line role.

So, he's definitely become something different than he was basically before that ACL tear.

 

[Isles72]

I think a top 6 team in either conference would take him on at or near the deadline. He would be good for someone like Toronto on the ice and optically off of it.

I'd take back Connor Dewar in a Cizikas ''feel good story , back home to Toronto'' deal .

versatile forward , has a nice wrist shot and works his ass off (Dewar)

 

[The Real JT]

What deals has LL been hosed on?

Horvat trade is even at the least, a win at the most. Pageau deal can be considered a loss, I guess. Don't really remember what that draft pick turned into. The Palmeiri trade is definitely a win. The Romanov deal is a win. I don't really see LL not doing well in trades unless you are one of those "draft picks or bust" type of guys around here. I'm fine with moving on from LL, but not because of his trade history. He knows how to go all-in, just not what we need anymore.

At this point in time, I’d say the Horvat trade is even at best, not at worst. It’s still probably a little too early to say for sure.

The Canucks traded the pick to Detroit and received Hronek in return. Not too shabby. Ultimately the Red Wings used the pick for a Swedish Dman who is very highly regarded, but not yet in the NHL. We also lost Raty which I don’t lament, though he was a valuable trade chip that could have been used elsewhere.

It’s already been a couple of years since this trade but even now it’s a little too early to say whether it’s a win or a loss. One thing is for sure, it didn’t put us over the top.

 

[Throttle]

At this point in time, I’d say the Horvat trade is even at best, not at worst. It’s still probably a little too early to say for sure.

The Canucks traded the pick to Detroit and received Hronek in return. Not too shabby. Ultimately the Red Wings used the pick for a Swedish Dman who is very highly regarded, but not yet in the NHL. We also lost Raty which I don’t lament, though he was a valuable trade chip that could have been used elsewhere.

It’s already been a couple of years since this trade but even now it’s a little too early to say whether it’s a win or a loss. One thing is for sure, it didn’t put us over the top.

Horvat trade was designed to add talent to the roster and supplement scoring (and help someone have a talented friend to pass to).

 

[periferal]

Whereas I don't really disagree with any of this in general, he certainly looked A LOT different when he went 12-9-21 in 44 games and added on 3 points in 5 playoff games.

You saw visible promise. Those are decent stats for just about any rookie in this league.

And when he went down with that ACL tear, he had done a few nice things that season while looking like a trigger guy in the Ovechkin spot on the PP. He just was a lot more ready to unload his shot. He had a + rating and was on pace for over 35 points.

He has been NOTHING like that since.

I had never really been a fan of his, but now he's totally different than in those first three NHL seasons when it was at least looking like he could be a 35-point 3rd liner who throws a big check here or there.

Now he just looks like he's struggling being in this league. His lack of wherewithal and his propensity for finding himself behind the play looks like it'll even prevent him from maybe etching out a 4th line role.

So, he's definitely become something different than he was basically before that ACL tear.

Well this really doesn't tell the whole story and kind of gives Wahlstrom a pass due to his knee injury. Let's also include...

• After his 12-9-21 in 44 games, he then went 13-11-24 in 73 games in his 2nd season - BEFORE his ACL injury. Essentially he was down nearly 50% off his PPG pace as a rookie in year two.
• Nearly every NHL player who suffers an ACL tear comes back from it basically to nearly the player they were before (especially the younger they are). Wahlstrom was performing like a bottom 6 player before he got hurt and now he cannot even come close to that level. Since coming back from his injury he has 3 goals in about 50 games (and 8 points overall).

We can use Wahlstrom's injury as a crutch when discussing his disappointing development, and maybe it's even a small factor. However if we're being honest the main factor is what's in his head. For a guy with great size (and talent), he plays a lot smaller than that, and it's punctuated by his lack of hockey smarts.

When you really watch Wahlstrom play you can see he doesn't just not make the simple or smart play, but often makes a play where you question what he's even thinking. He's not just useless when he's not scoring - He's a liability defensively. And it's clear the Isles know that he can't be trusted because for a team desperate for scoring, he's playing less then 10 minutes a game. The only "regular" averaging less ice time is Matt Martin.

While I seriously doubt it, maybe it's more confidence than smarts with Wahlstrom and he has some sort of later career resurgence like John LeClair (just hopefully it doesn't mimic LeClair in that he blossoms on another team).

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

We can use Wahlstrom's injury as a crutch when discussing his disappointing development, and maybe it's even a small factor. However if we're being honest the main factor is what's in his head. For a guy with great size (and talent), he plays a lot smaller than that, and it's punctuated by his lack of hockey smarts.

When you really watch Wahlstrom play you can see he doesn't just not make the simple or smart play, but often makes a play where you question what he's even thinking. He's not just useless when he's not scoring - He's a liability defensively. And it's clear the Isles know that he can't be trusted because for a team desperate for scoring, he's playing less then 10 minutes a game. The only "regular" averaging less ice time is Matt Martin.

While I seriously doubt it, maybe it's more confidence than smarts with Wahlstrom and he has some sort of later career resurgence like John LeClair (just hopefully it doesn't mimic LeClair in that he blossoms on another team).

I'm all in agreeance here.

I think I've spent the better part of two offseasons mentioning he should be moved for something (i.e. a comparable situation on another team) before he goes the same route as Ho-Sang, Dal Colle, and Bellows.

Looking like it's too late now.

Just saying there was a bit of time there where he looked like he could be something of a regular here.

 

[periferal]

I'm all in agreeance here.

I think I've spent the better part of two offseasons mentioning he should be moved for something (i.e. a comparable situation on another team) before he goes the same route as Ho-Sang, Dal Colle, and Bellows.

Looking like it's too late now.

Just saying there was a bit of time there where he looked like he could be something of a regular here.

And I'm in "agreeance" as well.

Just personally I feel like that "bit of time" where Wahlstrom looked like he could've been something great was a really small window back in his rookie year, because from the moment he stepped on the ice he felt very awkward - Like despite the decent start in terms of goal scoring, he didn't fit in (and now we can say that he never did). Almost from game 1 it was apparent to me that his only value was scoring, and he was a true liability in every other aspect of his game.

I think many got enticed and distracted by that shot of his which truly is elite, and overlooking the other aspects of his game. Most fans get out of their seat and pay attention to goals, but honestly if you can't play any defense, much less are giving the puck away/destroying your teams' puck possession, then you aren't long for the NHL. And that's what he was doing.

Now it is too late to get anything for him in a trade. We can look back and see that while he wasn't totally off some teams' draft boards like a Ho-Sang, they did have concerns about him which is why someone with his size and shot didn't go higher. Now we can safely say that having seen him in the NHL, pretty much all teams' have no desire to give up anything for him. If your own team (who's desperate for scoring) won't even put you on the ice 10 minutes a game, you're giving the rest of the NHL a scouting report in terms of determining Wahlstrom's "value."

Just sucks overall because he could've been that 1st line sniper we haven't had since forever. And it's not like there was really anyone else to take at #11 other than Dobson which Lou did (Farabee would've been the next best pick).

Just ironic as Lou then goes on to trade 4 of the next 5 Isles' 1st rounders. If ever there was a time to deal a 1st before it was made it was the Wahlstrom pick in 2018. This is why having a great scouting department is vital to success in the NHL. You cannot totally blow top 12 picks as much as they have the last 15 years.

 

[Throttle]

Wally is getting his chances because of his shot, 1st rounder status, injury, and finally, his cost control. The Isles have been hoping to get over production based on his contract value - bc they need it.

Now, on his 3rd coach, the story is the same. He is absolutely clueless on where to go on the ice to shoot the puck. The rest of his game is meh. So, he doesn’t play. His only shot to play was to earn a bottom 6 role, which beyond throwing his body once in a blue moon, the rest of his game is too much exposure for a coach to digest.

Roy is done with him.

 

[leeroggy]

On the Trade Board, there's a thread for Barzal to Buffalo. I posted a possible hockey trade and want to put it here to see what everyone thinks.

Barzal and Cizikas for Tuch, Zucker and Ostlund.

Zucker is UFA after this year, so that frees up cap for us.

I was trying to turn Barzal into depth scoring, while getting a nice prospect on top of that. Zucker is actually performing at a nice 3rd line clip this year; would he come back at $3 million? Tuch is 28.

 

[Throttle]

If there’s a swap both teams need to trade two players - they need a roster shakeup on both sides.