Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[periferal]

I don’t disagree with anything you said but what concerns me is the element of luck that is involved. The Oilers had the top pick in the draft for 3 consecutive years from 2010-2012. Not only did that not yield a generational player for them but a quick review of the top 10 picks each year I didn’t see a generational player. It took several more years of being bad for Draisaitl and McDavid to be drafted. So it could possibly take a decade to get back if the talent isn’t available to draft.

"Luck" is just a word you can file under "risk." Again there's risk no matter what path you take in building a team. One year the top prospect is Nail Yakupov...Another year it's Connor McDavid. And guess what...? The Oilers don't get anywhere near the Cup finals without McDavid (or Draisaitl). And...

The Penguins don't get anywhere near a Cup without Crosby/Malkin
The Avs without MacKinnon/Landeskog/Makar
The Lightning without Stamkos/Hedman
The Blackhawks without Toews/Kane

Way too many fans afraid of change and want to watch this aging team of average talent fade into oblivion. If you want the standings to change then the team needs to change - And that requires risk.

 

[periferal]

This poster is obvious example of all or nothing. It's kinda what he does, and ONLY what he does.

Nah - I'm open to a honest conversation. You have no interest in that as the ONLY thing you do is color some good debate with "all or nothing" one-liners that ignore the conversation.

Try putting a paragraph or two together one time that shares your thoughts and opinions as opposed to just bashing anyone else on this board.

 

[Top Corner]

How did Horvat, Reilly and Duclair get here?

I Should rephrase “Player movement” , meant to infer taking a chance on younger prospects who haven’t hit their stride.

 

[Glory Days]

"Luck" is just a word you can file under "risk." Again there's risk no matter what path you take in building a team. One year the top prospect is Nail Yakupov...Another year it's Connor McDavid. And guess what...? The Oilers don't get anywhere near the Cup finals without McDavid (or Draisaitl). And...

The Penguins don't get anywhere near a Cup without Crosby/Malkin
The Avs without MacKinnon/Landeskog/Makar
The Lightning without Stamkos/Hedman
The Blackhawks without Toews/Kane

Way too many fans afraid of change and want to watch this aging team of average talent fade into oblivion. If you want the standings to change then the team needs to change - And that requires risk.

Of course it is risk. I am willing to sign up for a rebuild but i do take exception to your statement that it should not take a decade. My Edmonton example proves the risk is that a rebuild could take at least a decade. I wonder if ownership is willing to take the same risk that the team could be a bottom dweller for an extended period of time. There could likely be years of low attendance and losses to the bottom line. Neither of us owns the team so the risk to us is much different than the risk to ownership.

 

[leeroggy]

How did Horvat, Reilly and Duclair get here?

Likely United or Delta . . .

 

[periferal]

Of course it is risk. I am willing to sign up for a rebuild but i do take exception to your statement that it should not take a decade. My Edmonton example proves the risk is that a rebuild could take at least a decade. I wonder if ownership is willing to take the same risk that the team could be a bottom dweller for an extended period of time. There could likely be years of low attendance and losses to the bottom line. Neither of us owns the team so the risk to us is much different than the risk to ownership.

The issue shouldn't be, "how long will a rebuild take?" The issue should be - What's the best course of action to make this team a true Contender again?

What if the best course of action was to do a total rebuild? Would you want to start the clock on that rebuild ASAP, or wait another 3-5 years while the current GM sets this team back further?

I could debate whether a rebuild or retool is the right way to go, but we should all be agreeing that our current GM is failing us all. The proof of that is the Isles' record under him without Trotz as coach. He's an average GM so the results are average. Expecting better from him, and thus the team, is the a much bigger waste of time than any type of rebuild, retool, etc.

 

[Throttle]

"Luck" is just a word you can file under "risk." Again there's risk no matter what path you take in building a team. One year the top prospect is Nail Yakupov...Another year it's Connor McDavid. And guess what...? The Oilers don't get anywhere near the Cup finals without McDavid (or Draisaitl). And...

The Penguins don't get anywhere near a Cup without Crosby/Malkin
The Avs without MacKinnon/Landeskog/Makar
The Lightning without Stamkos/Hedman
The Blackhawks without Toews/Kane

Way too many fans afraid of change and want to watch this aging team of average talent fade into oblivion. If you want the standings to change then the team needs to change - And that requires risk.

You realize the examples you cite have special circumstances on how they arrived at those players?

- PIT - On the verge of being sold to a guy the NHL didn’t want as an owner AND near bankruptcy
- Avs - Probably, the lone bright spot here in that they tried w/Duchesne and co., then changed course to a rebuild, however, several seasons of near league worst attendance and fans routinely citing Sakic as one of the worst GMs in the league.
- TB, I mean a goofball ownership group that probably out goofballs Wang
- Chicago, 6k fans, no one wanted to play in Chicago, it was a dying franchise until the owner died, and they pushed the update button.

So, nowhere above is there a rebuild with a new $1B arena, $1B steady ownership group, a team that has made the playoffs 5/6 seasons of the GM, and a team with a Top 5 goalie in the stable.

 

[Throttle]

I Should rephrase “Player movement” , meant to infer taking a chance on younger prospects who haven’t hit their stride.

Lou grabbed a bunch of former first rounders for free in the offseason. Just so happens he got NAS 2018 first rounder too, like Tomasino was a 2019 first rounder.

Dubas is completely clueless, so yeah, tossing a 4th rounder for a soon to be AHLer isn’t that honorable.

 

[icelander25]

Ik this is a huge humongous reach, but being able to draft Hagens is so so perfect. He’s from long Island, played with eiserman growing up, and can slot in as the 2C literally next year. We’d have to completely fall flat or like suggested earlier, trade up for 1st or 2nd pick but I think it be absolutely worth it. He’s losing a little hype and I could see him falling to 3 maybe even 4 like Wright did a few years ago. If we get the 7-9th pick, we have to trade up with the results from the Nelson and Palmieri trades that must happen.

If that happens we could have possibly

Duclair-Horvat-Barzal
Eiserman-Hagens-Tsyplakov
Lee-Pageau-Engvall
Enforcer-Cizikas-Holmstrom

I’m not even mad at that forward group but imagine after Lee and Pageau come off the books, we could move Tsyplakov to the 3rd line and sign a 2RW. I know it’s complete fantasy but it opens so many doors and really changes the complete trajectory of this team, from a maybe complete rebuild to legitimately competing in 2026 when Hagens and Eiserman have a year under their belt. Gotta pray to the lottery gods

 

[Glory Days]

The issue shouldn't be, "how long will a rebuild take?" The issue should be - What's the best course of action to make this team a true Contender again?

What if the best course of action was to do a total rebuild? Would you want to start the clock on that rebuild ASAP, or wait another 3-5 years while the current GM sets this team back further?

I could debate whether a rebuild or retool is the right way to go, but we should all be agreeing that our current GM is failing us all. The proof of that is the Isles' record under him without Trotz as coach. He's an average GM so the results are average. Expecting better from him, and thus the team, is the a much bigger waste of time than any type of rebuild, retool, etc.

We weren’t debating whether Lou should go. We are both in favor of him going. And yes that needs to happen now.

I was just trying to explain that ownership’s perspective is different than a fan. None of us have money invested in the team. I have worked for businesses that have lost money. I can tell you that ownership behavior changes when the business starts losing money.

 

[periferal]

You realize the examples you cite have special circumstances on how they arrived at those players?

- PIT - On the verge of being sold to a guy the NHL didn’t want as an owner AND near bankruptcy
- Avs - Probably, the lone bright spot here in that they tried w/Duchesne and co., then changed course to a rebuild, however, several seasons of near league worst attendance and fans routinely citing Sakic as one of the worst GMs in the league.
- TB, I mean a goofball ownership group that probably out goofballs Wang
- Chicago, 6k fans, no one wanted to play in Chicago, it was a dying franchise until the owner died, and they pushed the update button.

So, nowhere above is there a rebuild with a new $1B arena, $1B steady ownership group, a team that has made the playoffs 5/6 seasons of the GM, and a team with a Top 5 goalie in the stable.

 

[Throttle]

View attachment 936266

Oh, so a letter to the fan from a GM and President no longer with the team. Does a regular season banner qualify as a Cup? This is now your standard? LMAO.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Wouldn’t trade Eiserman for him. But I would trade Dobson for a forward and trade something else for Jiricek. These are the type of moves needed to redo the core.

 

[LeapOnOver]

What other coaches are available? Roy doesn't seem to be the guy.

 

[IslesNorway]

The Isles can change coaches every month, but results will remain the same. The time is ripe for getting rid of Lou and start turning the roster over. We'd be better off with sucking for a better draft pick than being lost in no man's land for the rest of the season.

 

[Chockey22]

The issue shouldn't be, "how long will a rebuild take?" The issue should be - What's the best course of action to make this team a true Contender again?

What if the best course of action was to do a total rebuild? Would you want to start the clock on that rebuild ASAP, or wait another 3-5 years while the current GM sets this team back further?

I could debate whether a rebuild or retool is the right way to go, but we should all be agreeing that our current GM is failing us all. The proof of that is the Isles' record under him without Trotz as coach. He's an average GM so the results are average. Expecting better from him, and thus the team, is the a much bigger waste of time than any type of rebuild, retool, etc.

I think there are different paths back to contender, and not all of them entail a full rebuild of several years drafting in the bottom three. Not every current contender followed that path, including some recent cup winners that didn’t do a traditional full rebuild.

That said, getting back to contender status will require strategically moving on from aging players, drafting and developing well, and smart free agent signings. I think we’re in agreement that Lou is probably not the best person to navigate this path.

One question I am unsure of is whether there is a path to contender status within Sorokin’s elite window, which is probably 3-4 years.

 

[SI]

It's just such a one-sided argument though. You have to add color to your " Look at Buffalo, Detroit, Ottawa" point...

1. Buffalo - Pegula is such a bad NHL owner that he has slowed their rebuild progress down considerably. To that point they got bad luck with Eichel's injury and then alientaed him so they could be in a different spot today if not for both those things.
2. Ottawa - Had ownership issues themselves the past decade and finally have a new one so let's see where they go.
3. Detroit - Not sure they ever dedicated themselves to a full rebuild. In the past decade they've had just one (1) top 5 pick and to do a successfully rebuild you usually need multiple top 3 picks.

Conversely...for all that "Buffalo, Detroit, Ottawa" teams you mentioned, you have to turn the telescope around and look at all the rebuild successes over the past 20 years. Almost every team that won a Cup did so with a core of top draft picks. And they to those top draft picks by truly sucking for multiple seasons. I'm talking about the Penguins, Blackhawks, Kings, Lightning, Avalanche to "name a few."

The "nothing is gauranteed if you rebuild arguemnt" is just so weak. Nothing is guaranteed no matter how you try to build your team...But if anything there's more evidence that Lou's way of spending to the cap on average players is not working at all. And he's literally only GM'ed one way over the past 40 years so even if you want subtle change you're going to have to replace him because he's only going to keep doing what he's been doing.




What you call a "solid foundation" I see as a "tired and average core." Sorokin is the only elite player the Isles have. When Dobson gets is massive payday in the next few months, the Isles are going to have roughly 30 million in cap space committed to those 4 skaters you mentioned who literally scare no other team on a nightly basis. Where is the true gamebreaking talent going to come from to elevate this team to Cup contention in your short-term non-rebuild? Pretty much every player that is elite and leads his team close to a Cup is not only taken with a top pick, but rarely ever changes teams. MacKinnon, McDavid, Draisaitl, Barkov, Makar, Crosby, Malkin, Doughty, Ovechkin, Kane, Hedman, Toews, Stamkos, and more are all top 3 picks in the draft. Those guys basically never come available in a trade in their prime, and even if one of the top players in the league did now, the Isles would be hard-pressed to have the assets to trade for them.





I appreciate your diplomatic philosophy, but the Isles have already been a "playoff team" 2 of the last 3 seasons, but is that all we're aiming for? We need to stop acting like, "If we just get into the playoffs anything can happen." That's such weak garth snow bs. We're multiple top pieces away from being a true Cup contender.

You use the phrase "swinging wildly" as if the Isles GM should attned a 6 year old's birthday party and try to hit a pinata. With a rebuld I'm talking about having a concrete and well thought out plan - Trading older vets to the highest bidder for picks and young prospects, committing to youth across the board with a coach who can instill confidence, get the very top picks in a couple of drafts, and assemble hopefully the best scouting department in the league to capitalize on every pick. Then when a new under 23 year old core starts to emerge, start adding in quality vets to accelerate the team back to playoff threat and Cup contender.

There's no question this plan will take years, but...

1. If you do it right it will not take a decade to get back.
2. Again this is what most of the Cup winning teams have done over the past 20 years.
3. The path we're on with the GM we have is actually leading us nowhere, so we're actually wasting years right now.

Many teams fall into the trap of a perpetual rebuild, but I don't believe it's necessary to go "all-in" on a teardown.

The team can make more calculated, thoughtful moves at the Trade Deadline (TDL) this season and reassess what's available in the trade and free-agent markets during the offseason.

If struggles continue, they can maximize returns in 2026 for players like Anders Lee and J-G Pageau, who will be on expiring contracts. By then, Ryan Pulock and Adam Pelech will also have shifted from full No-Trade Clauses (NTCs) to Modified NTCs (16 teams), making them easier to move if needed.

This franchise doesn't have the luxury of a full teardown. Decades of mismanagement and poor ownership have left scars that are still healing. Trading two pending UFAs who are top-six forwards is a manageable step toward overturning the roster, managing the cap, and restocking picks and prospects without dismantling everything.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. The team can take what it can get for veterans like Kyle Palmieri, Brock Nelson, and, in my opinion, Semyon Varlamov—who would likely be the best goalie available at the TDL. Combine those returns with a potential top-10 pick in a strong draft class, then use the freed-up cap space to improve the roster.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Oh, so a letter to the fan from a GM and President no longer with the team. Does a regular season banner qualify as a Cup? This is now your standard? LMAO.

Also, the Rangers and their fans know they can simply purchase their way to being a contender. What are they without Panarin and Fox? The Sabres, most likely.

 

[Lek]

Wish we could watch McDavid and Draisaitl play on a nightly basis and come within a goal of winning a Cup, but since you're throwing that totally out the window...Guess you didn't enjoy the Isles' playoff runs in 2019-2021 because they "didn't win a damned thing either."

sorry, you misunderstood...not what i was saying.

 

[xECK29x]

What other coaches are available? Roy doesn't seem to be the guy.

It's not the coach

 

[leeroggy]

He’s losing a little hype and I could see him falling to 3 maybe even 4 like Wright did a few years ago.

Look at Shane's production lately? Not a great endorsement for that thinking.

 

[saintunspecified]

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. The team can take what it can get for veterans like Kyle Palmieri, Brock Nelson, and, in my opinion, Semyon Varlamov—who would likely be the best goalie available at the TDL. Combine those returns with a potential top-10 pick in a strong draft class, then use the freed-up cap space to improve the roster.

Completely agree.

Also, despite the pessimism, I think NYI have improved the prospect pool recently despite Eiserman being the first 1st round pick since Holmstrom. I don't think Nelson or Finley are likely top 6 forwards, but I do think they'll be good home-grown bottom-6 forwards that allow the team to spend for premium skill. They're like George, who I think may top out as a #4 D. Odelius has been injured too much to know yet, but he also seems to be among this group. I think Bednarik & Pulkkinen will be of a similar nature - I'm way more confident of their projectibility as NHL players (not top-6 or top-4) than the home run swing and misses like of Dufour or Iskhakov. And many of us have to admit we we've been guilty of wishful thinking with Wahlstrom.

Draft two premium players + add one in free agency, and you've got a contender. Perhaps Eiserman is one? We'll need one or two more + more future roster players. Obviously Hagens would be a dream, but there's a lot to like about the lottery options in the upcoming draft. It's not out of the realm

That is, unless you deal Barzal, Horvat, Romanov, Dobson, Sorokin. Then there's WAY more work to do, Here's the thing about those guys: they are good enough athletes that they are not going to fall off a cliff in their thirties. It is okay to mix in some veterans with the young guys.

 

[Strummergas]

Nah - I'm open to a honest conversation. You have no interest in that as the ONLY thing you do is color some good debate with "all or nothing" one-liners that ignore the conversation.

Try putting a paragraph or two together one time that shares your thoughts and opinions as opposed to just bashing anyone else on this board.

I don't really see the point of debating with you as every one of your posts lack any kind of nuance when discussing the possibilities for this team. It's always absolutism, and that dates back to Snow's tenure. It's who you are, and what you do, and you should have no problem owning it since it's been your trademark for years here on this board. You are in some ways a manifestation of your avatar. My response to ECK was merely just to remind him of this, though I'm not sure how it could slip anyone's mind.

I will say that I believe that you are 100% sincere, and I admire that, because I can think of at least one poster who is only here to stir shit up, troll, and spam the board with paragraphs and paragraphs of drivel, and it's as clear as day. You are definitely not that. Your passion for the team is obvious and that's something I would never make a snide remark about. But you have all the subtlety of a Sherman Tank, and have real problems considering anything outside of your well documented outlook for this team. So again, what is there for us to have a conversation about?