Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[periferal]

I don’t disagree with anything you said but what concerns me is the element of luck that is involved. The Oilers had the top pick in the draft for 3 consecutive years from 2010-2012. Not only did that not yield a generational player for them but a quick review of the top 10 picks each year I didn’t see a generational player. It took several more years of being bad for Draisaitl and McDavid to be drafted. So it could possibly take a decade to get back if the talent isn’t available to draft.

"Luck" is just a word you can file under "risk." Again there's risk no matter what path you take in building a team. One year the top prospect is Nail Yakupov...Another year it's Connor McDavid. And guess what...? The Oilers don't get anywhere near the Cup finals without McDavid (or Draisaitl). And...

The Penguins don't get anywhere near a Cup without Crosby/Malkin
The Avs without MacKinnon/Landeskog/Makar
The Lightning without Stamkos/Hedman
The Blackhawks without Toews/Kane

Way too many fans afraid of change and want to watch this aging team of average talent fade into oblivion. If you want the standings to change then the team needs to change - And that requires risk.

 

[periferal]

This poster is obvious example of all or nothing. It's kinda what he does, and ONLY what he does.

Nah - I'm open to a honest conversation. You have no interest in that as the ONLY thing you do is color some good debate with "all or nothing" one-liners that ignore the conversation.

Try putting a paragraph or two together one time that shares your thoughts and opinions as opposed to just bashing anyone else on this board.

 

[Top Corner]

How did Horvat, Reilly and Duclair get here?

I Should rephrase “Player movement” , meant to infer taking a chance on younger prospects who haven’t hit their stride.

 

[Glory Days]

"Luck" is just a word you can file under "risk." Again there's risk no matter what path you take in building a team. One year the top prospect is Nail Yakupov...Another year it's Connor McDavid. And guess what...? The Oilers don't get anywhere near the Cup finals without McDavid (or Draisaitl). And...

The Penguins don't get anywhere near a Cup without Crosby/Malkin
The Avs without MacKinnon/Landeskog/Makar
The Lightning without Stamkos/Hedman
The Blackhawks without Toews/Kane

Way too many fans afraid of change and want to watch this aging team of average talent fade into oblivion. If you want the standings to change then the team needs to change - And that requires risk.

Of course it is risk. I am willing to sign up for a rebuild but i do take exception to your statement that it should not take a decade. My Edmonton example proves the risk is that a rebuild could take at least a decade. I wonder if ownership is willing to take the same risk that the team could be a bottom dweller for an extended period of time. There could likely be years of low attendance and losses to the bottom line. Neither of us owns the team so the risk to us is much different than the risk to ownership.

 

[leeroggy]

How did Horvat, Reilly and Duclair get here?

Likely United or Delta . . .

 

[periferal]

Of course it is risk. I am willing to sign up for a rebuild but i do take exception to your statement that it should not take a decade. My Edmonton example proves the risk is that a rebuild could take at least a decade. I wonder if ownership is willing to take the same risk that the team could be a bottom dweller for an extended period of time. There could likely be years of low attendance and losses to the bottom line. Neither of us owns the team so the risk to us is much different than the risk to ownership.

The issue shouldn't be, "how long will a rebuild take?" The issue should be - What's the best course of action to make this team a true Contender again?

What if the best course of action was to do a total rebuild? Would you want to start the clock on that rebuild ASAP, or wait another 3-5 years while the current GM sets this team back further?

I could debate whether a rebuild or retool is the right way to go, but we should all be agreeing that our current GM is failing us all. The proof of that is the Isles' record under him without Trotz as coach. He's an average GM so the results are average. Expecting better from him, and thus the team, is the a much bigger waste of time than any type of rebuild, retool, etc.

 

[Throttle]

"Luck" is just a word you can file under "risk." Again there's risk no matter what path you take in building a team. One year the top prospect is Nail Yakupov...Another year it's Connor McDavid. And guess what...? The Oilers don't get anywhere near the Cup finals without McDavid (or Draisaitl). And...

The Penguins don't get anywhere near a Cup without Crosby/Malkin
The Avs without MacKinnon/Landeskog/Makar
The Lightning without Stamkos/Hedman
The Blackhawks without Toews/Kane

Way too many fans afraid of change and want to watch this aging team of average talent fade into oblivion. If you want the standings to change then the team needs to change - And that requires risk.

You realize the examples you cite have special circumstances on how they arrived at those players?

- PIT - On the verge of being sold to a guy the NHL didn’t want as an owner AND near bankruptcy
- Avs - Probably, the lone bright spot here in that they tried w/Duchesne and co., then changed course to a rebuild, however, several seasons of near league worst attendance and fans routinely citing Sakic as one of the worst GMs in the league.
- TB, I mean a goofball ownership group that probably out goofballs Wang
- Chicago, 6k fans, no one wanted to play in Chicago, it was a dying franchise until the owner died, and they pushed the update button.

So, nowhere above is there a rebuild with a new $1B arena, $1B steady ownership group, a team that has made the playoffs 5/6 seasons of the GM, and a team with a Top 5 goalie in the stable.

 

[Throttle]

I Should rephrase “Player movement” , meant to infer taking a chance on younger prospects who haven’t hit their stride.

Lou grabbed a bunch of former first rounders for free in the offseason. Just so happens he got NAS 2018 first rounder too, like Tomasino was a 2019 first rounder.

Dubas is completely clueless, so yeah, tossing a 4th rounder for a soon to be AHLer isn’t that honorable.

 

[icelander25]

Ik this is a huge humongous reach, but being able to draft Hagens is so so perfect. He’s from long Island, played with eiserman growing up, and can slot in as the 2C literally next year. We’d have to completely fall flat or like suggested earlier, trade up for 1st or 2nd pick but I think it be absolutely worth it. He’s losing a little hype and I could see him falling to 3 maybe even 4 like Wright did a few years ago. If we get the 7-9th pick, we have to trade up with the results from the Nelson and Palmieri trades that must happen.

If that happens we could have possibly

Duclair-Horvat-Barzal
Eiserman-Hagens-Tsyplakov
Lee-Pageau-Engvall
Enforcer-Cizikas-Holmstrom

I’m not even mad at that forward group but imagine after Lee and Pageau come off the books, we could move Tsyplakov to the 3rd line and sign a 2RW. I know it’s complete fantasy but it opens so many doors and really changes the complete trajectory of this team, from a maybe complete rebuild to legitimately competing in 2026 when Hagens and Eiserman have a year under their belt. Gotta pray to the lottery gods

 

[Glory Days]

The issue shouldn't be, "how long will a rebuild take?" The issue should be - What's the best course of action to make this team a true Contender again?

What if the best course of action was to do a total rebuild? Would you want to start the clock on that rebuild ASAP, or wait another 3-5 years while the current GM sets this team back further?

I could debate whether a rebuild or retool is the right way to go, but we should all be agreeing that our current GM is failing us all. The proof of that is the Isles' record under him without Trotz as coach. He's an average GM so the results are average. Expecting better from him, and thus the team, is the a much bigger waste of time than any type of rebuild, retool, etc.

We weren’t debating whether Lou should go. We are both in favor of him going. And yes that needs to happen now.

I was just trying to explain that ownership’s perspective is different than a fan. None of us have money invested in the team. I have worked for businesses that have lost money. I can tell you that ownership behavior changes when the business starts losing money.

 

[periferal]

You realize the examples you cite have special circumstances on how they arrived at those players?

- PIT - On the verge of being sold to a guy the NHL didn’t want as an owner AND near bankruptcy
- Avs - Probably, the lone bright spot here in that they tried w/Duchesne and co., then changed course to a rebuild, however, several seasons of near league worst attendance and fans routinely citing Sakic as one of the worst GMs in the league.
- TB, I mean a goofball ownership group that probably out goofballs Wang
- Chicago, 6k fans, no one wanted to play in Chicago, it was a dying franchise until the owner died, and they pushed the update button.

So, nowhere above is there a rebuild with a new $1B arena, $1B steady ownership group, a team that has made the playoffs 5/6 seasons of the GM, and a team with a Top 5 goalie in the stable.

 

[Throttle]

View attachment 936266

Oh, so a letter to the fan from a GM and President no longer with the team. Does a regular season banner qualify as a Cup? This is now your standard? LMAO.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Wouldn’t trade Eiserman for him. But I would trade Dobson for a forward and trade something else for Jiricek. These are the type of moves needed to redo the core.

 

[LeapOnOver]

What other coaches are available? Roy doesn't seem to be the guy.

 

[IslesNorway]

The Isles can change coaches every month, but results will remain the same. The time is ripe for getting rid of Lou and start turning the roster over. We'd be better off with sucking for a better draft pick than being lost in no man's land for the rest of the season.

 

[Chockey22]

The issue shouldn't be, "how long will a rebuild take?" The issue should be - What's the best course of action to make this team a true Contender again?

What if the best course of action was to do a total rebuild? Would you want to start the clock on that rebuild ASAP, or wait another 3-5 years while the current GM sets this team back further?

I could debate whether a rebuild or retool is the right way to go, but we should all be agreeing that our current GM is failing us all. The proof of that is the Isles' record under him without Trotz as coach. He's an average GM so the results are average. Expecting better from him, and thus the team, is the a much bigger waste of time than any type of rebuild, retool, etc.

I think there are different paths back to contender, and not all of them entail a full rebuild of several years drafting in the bottom three. Not every current contender followed that path, including some recent cup winners that didn’t do a traditional full rebuild.

That said, getting back to contender status will require strategically moving on from aging players, drafting and developing well, and smart free agent signings. I think we’re in agreement that Lou is probably not the best person to navigate this path.

One question I am unsure of is whether there is a path to contender status within Sorokin’s elite window, which is probably 3-4 years.