Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

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doublechili

For all intensive purposes, your nuts
Apr 11, 2006
18,868
15,280
Like a few have said already basically the same thing except we kept our Top picks instead of trading them away.

We added a little more speed which will help but this roster is essentially waiting for the old guys to become older and slower and the middle aged to become old guys. It's basically a slow rebuild while putting fans in the seats. Not a recipe for success back in Lou's day and certainly not today.
Re: the bolded, is that really so bad? I'll bet the owner doesn't think so. Keep all your picks - maybe trade for a few extras - and try to retool on the fly.

Also, re: "slow rebuild", is there such a thing as a "fast rebuild"? Maybe the destination franchises (original 6s and FLA, TB, COL, VGK, etc.) can do that because UFAs want to go there and players force trades to them. But for the rest of the teams, despite the jokes about semantics here (rebuild, retool, etc.), there are limited options. You can do a tear-it-down scorched-earth, gather picks and be bottom of the league, hope you get lucky and draft superstars, and wait 8 years rebuild. You can do a "slow rebuild" (basically keep as many of your picks as you can and tweak the roster slightly as you go). Or you can just do a hybrid and retool constantly (and retooling is what every team has to do to some extent anyway with a salary cap).
 

doublechili

For all intensive purposes, your nuts
Apr 11, 2006
18,868
15,280
As much as I would've liked Pinto, the less selfish part of me is always glad when a player stays with their team... at least when it's a decent bunch like Ottawa. Now if it were the NYR or TOR, I'd dance a jig if someone left (but they never do).

BTW, when does Celebrini go UFA? I'm hoping he wants to play with his buddy Cole Eiserman.
 
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PK Cronin

Bailey Fan Club Prez
Feb 11, 2013
34,474
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You'll make the argument that simple to justify your point, but that's not the issue. Hell yeah the Preds have a flawed lineup, but here's the key...They're going for it the way you need to go for it - By making big swings. Other than the Horvat deal Lou seems to think "big swings" are overpaying for middle-level players.

It's a huge gamble for a very short window, you've mentioned non-stop about wanting the team to have success over the long haul so I'm not sure why you'd applaud moves that are counter to that philosophy when another organization is doing them.


And yet - Want to know who the real judge will be? Who does what on the ice next season. I only care about what other GMs are doing because it gives a good comparable of what Lou is not doing.

I think Trotz made a mistake and much prefer what Lamoriello is doing right now.

I'm just saying if a year from now the Isles are another 1st round exit, or miss the playoffs entirely, should it be "business as usual" for Lou in the summer of 2025? When does it end for you where he's not getitng it done and is replaced by someone who might?

If you haven't seen enough that's totally fine. Up to you. I have.

I've already mentioned that I wouldn't care if Lamoriello was replaced. He needs to start changing the team and the way he operates, and he did that with actually making draft picks this season. The ones you mentioned time and time again wouldn't actually be used.

There's still work to do and if he doesn't trade Nelson or Palmieri I'll be pretty annoyed. I don't see how this team should be adding anything other than young talent or draft picks at this point.

Agree with this, but Marchessault moves the needle much more than Duclair does.

I know you and I both love Marchessault's game but he wasn't the right fit for the amount of money and term he received. 5 years at $5.5M for a 33 year old is just quite a gamble.

All that said...In your opinion what would "turn this team into a Cup contender?" Honestly would love to hear - The more specific the better.

I've already stated this numerous times. This season could/should be a step back to get better moving forward.

I'd be trading Nelson and/or Palmieri ASAP to get maximum value for them as they enter their final year under contract. Neither one is good enough or young enough to warrant re-signing, so they won't be around when the team is ready for a serious push again. Grab whatever picks and prospects can be had.

Look to move Pageau if he has any value right now, if not I'd wait to move him and Lee next summer so it's less expensive to get rid of them.

That'd create more than enough assets and free cap space to try and acquire any player hitting the market (via trade of free agency). It leaves Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, and Sorokin intact.

Trotz brought those guys in as a supporting cast for Forsberg/Josi/Saros who by the way are probably better than Barza/Dobson/Sorokin right now.

Not saying the Islanders should have done those deals (I don't think they shouldn't), just pointing out the real core of the team is not the bodies they added.

Absolutely, and Josi is better than anyone on the Islanders roster. Forsberg is similar to the guys we have up front, and Saros is good but not quite as good as Sorokin. My biggest issue with those moves is the age of all the players involved. The window for Nashville is going to be really short and I don't think that they're in the same tier as Edmonton, Dallas, Vegas, etc. even with the moves they made.

We'll see though, maybe Trotz hit a home run. I love Trotz and the city of Nashville so I hope they have success.
 
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doublechili

For all intensive purposes, your nuts
Apr 11, 2006
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Absolutely, and Josi is better than anyone on the Islanders roster. Forsberg is similar to the guys we have up front, and Saros is good but not quite as good as Sorokin. My biggest issue with those moves is the age of all the players involved. The window for Nashville is going to be really short and I don't think that they're in the same tier as Edmonton, Dallas, Vegas, etc. even with the moves they made.

We'll see though, maybe Trotz hit a home run. I love Trotz and the city of Nashville so I hope they have success.
I just don't know what the plan is in NSH. Stamkos was probably the #5 player on the TBL Cup teams, and he's 34 now (and 38 at the end of the contract). Marchessault is a really nice player, but similarly he was probably #5 at best on VGK. And Skjei was probably the #4 defenseman on CAR. These guys might move the needle some, but enough? Even more so, NSH was rebuilding one year ago. Now they're done?
 

Strummergas

Regular User
Sep 3, 2006
15,457
6,211
Queens, NY
And here I was thinking you might be happy these days since Lou kept the picks and used them to draft players. As you may recall, someone around here (name escapes me) was posting for months that there was no way in the world that the Isles were going to keep those picks.

Pro-Tip: Realize that he's only happy when he's miserable.
 

seabass45

Registered User
Jan 12, 2007
8,246
1,546
Problem here is what does this do for Ottawa? It’s a classic “quantity for quality” deal and it doesn’t fix Ottawa’s biggest problem (defense, specifically the right side). They take a big downgrade and a significant contract (larger than the one Pinto just signed) while gambling that Wahlstrom, who barely has any value, can figure it out. They’d be better off trading him straight up with a team that is strong on D but could use help at center. That is, if they wanted to trade him, and it’s clear now that they didn’t.

 

islesfan3913

Registered User
Apr 5, 2011
7,648
1,002
Problem here is what does this do for Ottawa? It’s a classic “quantity for quality” deal and it doesn’t fix Ottawa’s biggest problem (defense, specifically the right side). They take a big downgrade and a significant contract (larger than the one Pinto just signed) while gambling that Wahlstrom, who barely has any value, can figure it out. They’d be better off trading him straight up with a team that is strong on D but could use help at center. That is, if they wanted to trade him, and it’s clear now that they didn’t.

If they had their choice between Wahlstrom and Holmstrom, I have to imagine they’d choose the latter and I don’t think that would’ve been a bad deal for Ottawa if they couldn’t come to an agreement with Pinto. Personally, I would’ve been a bit upset with that deal since I’m a big Holmstrom fan and could see him putting up a 40 point season next year. Pinto probably has more upside but I’d rather add youth than just exchange it, plus Pinto will probably require a bigger contract and sooner.
 

LeapOnOver

Mackenzie is a hack!
Jan 23, 2011
12,521
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Iksan, S. Korea
www.leaponover.com
At this point I would be fine with just standing pat, maybe sign a couple of younger skilled guys that haven’t broken out. See how the season goes, evaluate around the trade deadline. If we are out of it we can get another 1st+ for Nelson, Palms can be moved and open up a lot of cap space with a couple of extra draft picks to start overhauling the roster. Or if we are right in it you can make a move to upgrade the roster and hopefully some more players are available.
Undoubtedly LL's plan as well, if history is the barometer.
 

SI

Registered User
Feb 16, 2013
7,834
4,051
Ehlers maybe idk. I’d personally want something better if we’re trading 2025 1st
IMO, Lou has moved on from Ehlers - he makes too much even if Lou moves JGP - they would need the Jets to retain $.
I also believe they should hold onto both 2025 1st and 2nd rounders.

I could see a move for Tarasenko instead of Ehlers - this will allow them to keep the pick and just pay $. They still would have to attach an asset to move Pageau and Tank seems like he is fixed on Florida.

So, I think they are done outside of moving Wahlstrom for a 2025 mid-round pick and maybe bringing in someone to challenge Fasching for that 13th F spot, maybe Kubalik or Barabanov or someone they can sign at the league minimum/no greater than .800K.

They need something for the PK - right now - there are not many good options left - the best one is Cal.
I guess they could go with -
Horvat - Cizikas
Pageau - Holmstrom
Nelson - Palmieri
*maybe Maclean gets some reps.


It does look like - they may spread speed throughout the line up
Barzal - Horvat - Tsyplakov
Duclair - Nelson - Palmieri
Lee - Pageau - Engvall
Maclean - Cizikas - Holmstrom/Fasching or UFA
 
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Osakahaus

Chillin' on Fuji
May 28, 2021
8,300
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I think we're gonna see a trade to get them cap complient soon.

isles two signings today are 100% Bridgeport only. I cannot see Karlsson being an islander due to him being a center/bottom sixer.
 
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Soundgarden

#164303
Jul 22, 2008
17,719
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Spring Hill, TN
I just don't know what the plan is in NSH. Stamkos was probably the #5 player on the TBL Cup teams, and he's 34 now (and 38 at the end of the contract). Marchessault is a really nice player, but similarly he was probably #5 at best on VGK. And Skjei was probably the #4 defenseman on CAR. These guys might move the needle some, but enough? Even more so, NSH was rebuilding one year ago. Now they're done?
Nashville fan here, We've got Josi, Forsberg and ROR, so Stamkos and Marchessault can still be the no.4-5 guys here if it comes down to it. Skjei will be behind Josi on the 2nd pairing.

We've been rebuilding since we drafted Askarov: Askarov, Svechkov, L'Hereaux, Kemell, Wood, Molendyk and Surin are all 1st rounders and we have 2 1sts and 2 2nds next year. Plus guys like Evangelista and Parssinen who were drafted in the 2nd and 7th respectively.
 
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impaaaaaact

Registered User
Jan 14, 2014
1,851
1,607
Brooklyn, NY
Nashville fan here, We've got Josi, Forsberg and ROR, so Stamkos and Marchessault can still be the no.4-5 guys here if it comes down to it. Skjei will be behind Josi on the 2nd pairing.

We've been rebuilding since we drafted Askarov: Askarov, Svechkov, L'Hereaux, Kemell, Wood, Molendyk and Surin are all 1st rounders and we have 2 1sts and 2 2nds next year. Plus guys like Evangelista and Parssinen who were drafted in the 2nd and 7th respectively.
Yeah, you guys are in a really really good spot. In Trotz we trust!
 

impaaaaaact

Registered User
Jan 14, 2014
1,851
1,607
Brooklyn, NY
They need something for the PK - right now - there are not many good options left - the best one is Cal.
I guess they could go with -
Horvat - Cizikas
Pageau - Holmstrom
Nelson - Palmieri
*maybe Maclean gets some reps.


It does look like - they may spread speed throughout the line up
Barzal - Horvat - Tsyplakov
Duclair - Nelson - Palmieri
Lee - Pageau - Engvall
Maclean - Cizikas - Holmstrom/Fasching or UFA
They’re going to try Tsyplakov in clutterbuck’s spot. He PK’d in the KHL and scored a few shorties last season. They’re going to use his shot on the PP too.

Feel like on the PP we’ll see Barzy/Horvat/Palmieri/Tsyplakov/Dobson and Duclair/Nelson/Lee/Reilly/Pulock. Tsyplakov is in line to get some real minutes this year if he doesn’t f*** it up
 

SI

Registered User
Feb 16, 2013
7,834
4,051
They’re going to try Tsyplakov in clutterbuck’s spot. He PK’d in the KHL and scored a few shorties last season. They’re going to use his shot on the PP too.

Feel like on the PP we’ll see Barzy/Horvat/Palmieri/Tsyplakov/Dobson and Duclair/Nelson/Lee/Reilly/Pulock. Tsyplakov is in line to get some real minutes this year if he doesn’t f*** it up
Nelson plays PP1 - Not sure Tsyplakov plays on PP2 with Duke, Engvall, JGP and Lee - can't take JGP only RH shot on that unit.
 

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