Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Top Corner]

What do you view his potential as? Are we looking at a potential second line player here? Anyone feel free to answer this. I'd love to hear some thoughts on Dufour.

He needs to continue improving his skating, he’s a slower Whalstrom and
I can’t see him at the NHL level for at least 2-3 years if that

 

[seafoam]

I’m still not really understanding the Aho signing. They could have signed a more proven commodity in Brad Hunt or Matt Irwin for a similar price and both are career +50% corsi defensemen which is not exactly easy to do when you are in and out of the lineup on shit teams.

Hopefully there’s another add on the backend and Aho is waived. I can’t imagine him coming into camp and being any different than what we saw the last few years. I’d rather have Pulock or Romanov on the 2nd PP unit over Aho at this point.

 

[Jester9881]

Reading the tea leaves, I believe Bailey, Varlamov, and Beauvillier are still in play, but only if Lou strikes out on Gaudreau. The fact that there were a bunch of lesser RFA signings while MDC, Bellows, Romanov, and Dobson remain unsigned makes me feel that Lou is trying to keep the Islander salary cap situation an unknown for leverage purposes if they do indeed require a move to clear salary.

We shouldn't expect someone like Miller, Laine, or Tkachuck if that scenario unfolded, but a Tarasenko or Kane could suddenly become a target.

 

[MJF]

Niedermayer?

Scott or Douglas C?

 

[leeroggy]

C’mon that was a serious question. Stop spouting out “Animal House” movie nonsense! Sheesh.

Yes, but he IS correct!

LL treated Scott like one of HIS pledges . . .

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

If Isles did decide to kick tires on Kane what do you guys believe would be offer if Kane Ok'd trade and Hawks were to retain 50% ($10.5M cap hit becomes $5.25M)

Given Hawks rebuild and direction the Isles 2023 1st would likely be primary piece asked in return as well as a prospect

Would Isles 2023 1st + Raty be something Isle fans could see as realistic in that type of trade?

Hawks could retain less and take salary back but you guys all seem to think most of your current likely contract out guys are not going to be traded for variety of reasons (Varlamov situation makes a lot of sense with current situation with Russia and NHL players in Russia right now as I believe Sorokin is)

 

[Kevin27NYI]

If Isles did decide to kick tires on Kane what do you guys believe would be offer if Kane Ok'd trade and Hawks were to retain 50% ($10.5M cap hit becomes $5.25M)

Given Hawks rebuild and direction the Isles 2023 1st would likely be primary piece asked in return as well as a prospect

Would Isles 2023 1st + Raty be something Isle fans could see as realistic in that type of trade?

Hawks could retain less and take salary back but you guys all seem to think most of your current likely contract out guys are not going to be traded for variety of reasons (Varlamov situation makes a lot of sense with current situation with Russia and NHL players in Russia right now as I believe Sorokin is)

I think picks are very expendable, because we have a bad prospect pool I don’t think Raty is available.

But Kane is a 90 point winger so possibly. Just guessing by our pool and Lou

 

[leeroggy]

What do you view his potential as? Are we looking at a potential second line player here? Anyone feel free to answer this. I'd love to hear some thoughts on Dufour.

Arguably, I have been his biggest supporter here

It's really hard to say where his potential can take him. Floor seems to be a Pat Flatley type player (more goals and less assists than Pat), which would be great as is.

Ceiling is very interesting. James Neal comes to mind. Jamie Benn was also a 5th round pick. Those two were both big bodies who progressed rapidly in their junior careers and had similar profiles in their draft years.

As Chapin pointed out, he was a very high QMJHL pick in his junior draft year and took some time to grow into his size as a player.

When I watched him, I saw a guy who was a much better skater than Lee, but didn't quite have the best lateral movement. He certainly accelerated better from a standing start than I expected. He's played both wing and center and understands defense at a higher level than his peers.

The shot is elite and seems heavy. He gets it off quickly, but it isn't the same type of one-timer than Wahlstrom, who worries about speed more than accuracy. Dufour is more of a snap shot than slap shot and can pick corners better. I suspect he ends up 6' 3" and eventually bulks up with muscle to about 215-220 and then he becomes a handful down the wing.

His passing is better than I expected, and he doesn't try to force the play except when shooting. Shot attempts will obviously be scarcer than he accomplished (one game he had 16 attempts in the Memorial Cup and almost all of them hit the net) this year.

Regardless of his size and age, he played big time on the most important stage of his career, and you can't write that off easily. If the WJC hadn't been postponed and Canada did not win, you probably would be hearing some bitching about his being one of the last cuts from the Canadian team.

He has a chance to be the answer with Matty.

 

[Zeeker]

If Isles did decide to kick tires on Kane what do you guys believe would be offer if Kane Ok'd trade and Hawks were to retain 50% ($10.5M cap hit becomes $5.25M)

Given Hawks rebuild and direction the Isles 2023 1st would likely be primary piece asked in return as well as a prospect

Would Isles 2023 1st + Raty be something Isle fans could see as realistic in that type of trade?

Hawks could retain less and take salary back but you guys all seem to think most of your current likely contract out guys are not going to be traded for variety of reasons (Varlamov situation makes a lot of sense with current situation with Russia and NHL players in Russia right now as I believe Sorokin is)

I’m sure you’ll get a different answer from others, but personally I’m pretty leery about giving up a first in what’s projecting to be a historically deep draft, AND giving up one of our top prospects in a league-bottom prospect pool. We haven’t had a first round pick since 2019 - if we were to move the 2023 pick, not sure I’d want it to be for someone pushing mid-30s, no matter how good Kane still is.

That’s why I’d still much prefer moving out salary and signing a Gaudreau-type (probably not realistic though).

 

[danteipp]

If Isles did decide to kick tires on Kane what do you guys believe would be offer if Kane Ok'd trade and Hawks were to retain 50% ($10.5M cap hit becomes $5.25M)

Given Hawks rebuild and direction the Isles 2023 1st would likely be primary piece asked in return as well as a prospect

Would Isles 2023 1st + Raty be something Isle fans could see as realistic in that type of trade?

Hawks could retain less and take salary back but you guys all seem to think most of your current likely contract out guys are not going to be traded for variety of reasons (Varlamov situation makes a lot of sense with current situation with Russia and NHL players in Russia right now as I believe Sorokin is)

That is a heck of a question. I think a lot of it depends on how Lou and co. view Raty vs. say Wahlstrom.

I believe the organization is very high on Raty, and would prefer to keep him, given the lack of prospect center depth in the system and that Raty is so close.

If that is the case, it probably makes more sense to include Wahlstrom as the second trade chip.

Here is a question, do the Hawks have an "affordable" veteran/middling LHD they would be open to moving?

Because a topline forward and a LHD3 to pair with Mayfield would essentially complete the Isles shopping. If so, I could see the trade being expanded a bit.

Let's say the 2023 first, Wahlstrom (who gives the Hawks a young RW to develop), Bailey ($5 mm cap hit but I believe only $3.5 mm in real money) and maybe another small piece for Kane (at just 25% retention since Bailey is now going the other way) and said defenseman, provided they are $3 mm in AAV or less.

The Hawks could use Bailey for a year or so, he is a good locker room guy and has experience with rebuilding teams, then trade him for more futures at the trade deadline or next season.

 

[CupHolders]

If Isles did decide to kick tires on Kane what do you guys believe would be offer if Kane Ok'd trade and Hawks were to retain 50% ($10.5M cap hit becomes $5.25M)

Given Hawks rebuild and direction the Isles 2023 1st would likely be primary piece asked in return as well as a prospect

Would Isles 2023 1st + Raty be something Isle fans could see as realistic in that type of trade?

Hawks could retain less and take salary back but you guys all seem to think most of your current likely contract out guys are not going to be traded for variety of reasons (Varlamov situation makes a lot of sense with current situation with Russia and NHL players in Russia right now as I believe Sorokin is)

That may be the kind of deal it does take for Kane, but I would prefer the Isles avoid giving up Raty. Also what I’m not sure about, does Chicago prefer prospects or picks? It’s unclear, as they traded younger players for picks recently.

As an Islander fan who has seen years of poor returns on trades I don’t mean to be a jerk when I bring up the following possible sore topic…

Does the Debrincat return change the expectation of the return for Kane?

If so, would the suggested deal be in-line with the expectations before or after the other deal?

With that said, I have no problem with a deal fashioned around the 2023 1st (lottery protected) and other conditional picks based on team performance.

With Chicago’s situation and Kanes salary to cap hit for this year. A full 50% retention is expected and pretty negligible. Also Josh Bailey would have to go the other way.

Kane @ 50% for…

Josh Bailey (2yrs @ 3.5 salary, 5 cap hit)

2023 1st round pick (top 10 protected)

2024 2nd round pick (turns to 1st with Stanley Cup win)

Bode Wilde (prospect throw-in, being dumped because of COVID vac policy)

Finally, If required to include a younger player, I’d prefer to keep Raty over Wahlstrom. As the player we’re acquiring will impact a spot for him in the lineup.

But I wouldn’t necessarily say that I would agree to such a deal for Kane. I would consider if a Wahlstrom, 1st package could get the Islanders a younger player with more term.

 

[leeroggy]

He needs to continue improving his skating, he’s a slower Whalstrom and
I can’t see him at the NHL level for at least 2-3 years if that

Disagree, he is faster than Wahlstrom

 

[JKP]

If Isles did decide to kick tires on Kane what do you guys believe would be offer if Kane Ok'd trade and Hawks were to retain 50% ($10.5M cap hit becomes $5.25M)

Given Hawks rebuild and direction the Isles 2023 1st would likely be primary piece asked in return as well as a prospect

Would Isles 2023 1st + Raty be something Isle fans could see as realistic in that type of trade?

Hawks could retain less and take salary back but you guys all seem to think most of your current likely contract out guys are not going to be traded for variety of reasons (Varlamov situation makes a lot of sense with current situation with Russia and NHL players in Russia right now as I believe Sorokin is)

I don't think the Hawks move him until the deadline.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Kind of interesting that no one is talking about Dufour showing well in camp and maybe playing after half a season in Bridgeport . . . we've been so battle-fatigued over the years that we can't see anyone jumping from junior to the NHL. With his size and skills, we could be very surprised in October.

Let's not forget our last Memorial Cup MVP didn't spend any time in Bridgeport.

Yep, I wouldn't put any faith or expectation in this happening. I mean, if a guy like Bellows goes from 40+ goals in the WHL to 12-7-19 in a full rookie AHL year, we really have to assume that a physically undeveloped Dufour is not exactly going to knock on the door to the NHL at some point next season, much less knock it down.

I mean sure, it'd be fantastic if this kid is sooo good at generating goals that the team simply has no choice but to give him that shot on the Island, but you never go into a season planning for that kind of thing to happen.

Historical fact is, we're more likely to be disappointed in his AHL output than looking at a kid who can help on the Island.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

My guess is Palmieri plus the 23 1st for an RFA forward

If Lou moves his first for the 4th straight season and in a year that is looking like the best first round since McDavid/Matthews, then we can officially have him committed to the looney bin.

Shouldn't happen and simply can't happen at any time before the trade deadline. And even then, it has to be for something that is undoubtedly the last ingredient for the Cup.

You do NOT want to miss out on next year's first round crop - and especially not after three straight years without a first rounder and with Dobson being the only first of note over the past five years.

#OrganizationalSuicide

 

[seafoam]

If Lou moves his first for the 4th straight season and in a year that is looking like the best first round since McDavid/Matthews, then we can officially have him committed to the looney bin.

Shouldn't happen and simply can't happen at any time before the trade deadline. And even then, it has to be for something that is undoubtedly the last ingredient for the Cup.

You do NOT want to miss out on next year's first round crop - and especially not after three straight years without a first rounder and with Dobson being the only first of note over the past five years.

#OrganizationalSuicide

Not related to the above, but you have a few names that you would suggest signing fron the mid-low tier bin of UFAs that you think could mesh wesh with Barzal?

One name I’ll throw out there is Colin Blackwell, he small but can skate, PKs and can put the puck in the back of the net.

Of course, I would love to just see Palmieri fill this role and return to a 25g 25a guy, just not sure if it’s going to happen with Barzal.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Reading the tea leaves, I believe Bailey, Varlamov, and Beauvillier are still in play, but only if Lou strikes out on Gaudreau. The fact that there were a bunch of lesser RFA signings while MDC, Bellows, Romanov, and Dobson remain unsigned makes me feel that Lou is trying to keep the Islander salary cap situation an unknown for leverage purposes if they do indeed require a move to clear salary.

We shouldn't expect someone like Miller, Laine, or Tkachuck if that scenario unfolded, but a Tarasenko or Kane could suddenly become a target.

Johnny G won't last until Wednesday...

Bank It

 

[Glory Days]

If Lou moves his first for the 4th straight season and in a year that is looking like the best first round since McDavid/Matthews, then we can officially have him committed to the looney bin.

Shouldn't happen and simply can't happen at any time before the trade deadline. And even then, it has to be for something that is undoubtedly the last ingredient for the Cup.

You do NOT want to miss out on next year's first round crop - and especially not after three straight years without a first rounder and with Dobson being the only first of note over the past five years.

#OrganizationalSuicide

Lou doesn’t care about draft picks and waiting for a prospect to develop. We know he believes in this team and wants to win now. I’m also speculating the forward he gets is someone young who will be part of the present and future. How about Bratt or Tkachuk if things don’t happen with the Devils or Flames?

 

[CupHolders]

Johnny G won't last until Wednesday...

Bank It

If he does, AND miraculously signs with the Islanders. You have to change your name to:

JohnnySaidItsSo

A little clumsier I admit. But in all seriousness, anything reported recently? Why do you feel he is going to stay?

 

[YearlyLottery]

Arguably, I have been his biggest supporter here

It's really hard to say where his potential can take him. Floor seems to be a Pat Flatley type player (more goals and less assists than Pat), which would be great as is.

Ceiling is very interesting. James Neal comes to mind. Jamie Benn was also a 5th round pick. Those two were both big bodies who progressed rapidly in their junior careers and had similar profiles in their draft years.

As Chapin pointed out, he was a very high QMJHL pick in his junior draft year and took some time to grow into his size as a player.

When I watched him, I saw a guy who was a much better skater than Lee, but didn't quite have the best lateral movement. He certainly accelerated better from a standing start than I expected. He's played both wing and center and understands defense at a higher level than his peers.

The shot is elite and seems heavy. He gets it off quickly, but it isn't the same type of one-timer than Wahlstrom, who worries about speed more than accuracy. Dufour is more of a snap shot than slap shot and can pick corners better. I suspect he ends up 6' 3" and eventually bulks up with muscle to about 215-220 and then he becomes a handful down the wing.

His passing is better than I expected, and he doesn't try to force the play except when shooting. Shot attempts will obviously be scarcer than he accomplished (one game he had 16 attempts in the Memorial Cup and almost all of them hit the net) this year.

Regardless of his size and age, he played big time on the most important stage of his career, and you can't write that off easily. If the WJC hadn't been postponed and Canada did not win, you probably would be hearing some bitching about his being one of the last cuts from the Canadian team.

He has a chance to be the answer with Matty.

Interesting. Well I hope you are right. He certainly has the size and if his skating can keep up along with a willingness to drive the net when the time comes it would be a fantastic addition to the team.

I think he’s probably more likely to be more of a third liner, he is big and has good hands. Perhaps he’s a 20-25 goal guy who stands in front of net on PP, learns to kill penalties also and is just a good up and down winger. To be honest for a fifth round pick if he even makes it to nhl it’s gravy.

In today's league I would say a guy who can score 20-25 goals and kills penalties is a top six forward. These would all be great outcomes for a fifth round pick.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Johnny G won't last until Wednesday...

Bank It

We'll see I guess.

It's already halfway through Sunday and he's unsigned, so hope remains.

 

[Lame Lambert]

 

[CupHolders]

Both Stromes to Seattle makes sense. Maybe Anaheim? But I can see them working a package deal.

 

[SI90]

He’s going to make more than he’s worth right now but I’d definitely take him. Just don’t know where he’d play without us moving some guys out. We need a legit go to scorer more than him but he’s good.

Lol this would be awesome!

 

[Lame Lambert]

He’s going to make more than he’s worth right now but I’d definitely take him. Just don’t know where he’d play without us moving some guys out. We need a legit go to scorer more than him but he’s good.

Lol this would be awesome!

0.7 PPG and over 20 goals. I’d certainly take him over several of our forwards at this point.