Roster Building XXIV: Our Hearts Go Pitter Pattersson

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I get that Gold and Ovies and that whole crew have connections within the organization, but I’ve never heard either of them speak and thought “that’s a well informed and reasonable person I should listen to them”

Gold is one of the highest on my list of "the worst guy you know made a great point" events.

More often than not I agree with him on the hockey side of things (not always). But he comes off as a jerk.

I do wonder if it's a radio thing. I used to think of Maniscalco the same way (sans the "agreeing with him most of the time" piece) and once he moved to TV he's pivoted to being much softer.
 
Then Gold opening his yapper is actively hurting the Canes chances to increase that price, right?

Well, anyway, f*** that guy

Gold cares about being relevant, not about helping/hurting the Canes organization. Which, to be fair, is probably the stance a journalist should take.
 
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I don’t really see a big bidding war for Miller. Jersey has to move a lot of money around to make it work the rangers aren’t giving up their unprotected first this year. Whenever the deal happens it’s probably gonna be a lot less than people think the Canucks won’t win the deal just like they lost the Horvat trade. Looking back at it we probably should of made a deal to get Horvat now that I think of it
 
Potential reason: you've now got more proof of concept that Miller will age into the contract better than was previously expected. At the time you thought he was getting paid for a career year coming out of the 21-22 season, and since then he's put up 2 ppg seasons including a career high 103 points last year. He's grown into the contract pretty well.

Not to mention, $8m doesn't have the same pearl-clutching reputation today that it did in 2022. Perfectly reasonable for an elite 2C which Miller is.
I don't think we are seeing the evidence you necessarily think. I'm seeing more evidence last year was a career year based on play this year, and he is turning 32 this season, and still under contract for $8M for another 5 years.

I understand the cap going up making the hit more palatable. I still think Tulsky isn't going to sign off on an $8M cap hit through age 37.
 
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I don't think we are seeing the evidence you necessarily think. I'm seeing more evidence last year was a career year based on play this year, and he is turning 32 this season, and still under contract for $8M for another 5 years.

I understand the cap going up making the hit more palatable. I still think Tulsky isn't going to sign off on an $8M cap hit through age 37.

Last year was certainly a career year but you're moving the goalposts are moving here. The $8m contract was generally considered iffy at the time because it was perceived that he was getting paid for his breakout year when he'd previously been basically a 55-60 point guy with lots of ups and downs.

He doesn't have to be a 100 pt guy to be worth $8m. But since the contract was signed we're seeing plenty of evidence that he's a least a 70-80 pt guy. He can be the ppg guy he is right now, heck he can be a 60-70 pt guy as a 2C and it'd be worth it. Over the years as long as he declines gracefully the rising cap will offset his declining production. And yeah, the last couple of years could look awful, or they could not. But the team needs a 2C and the more these talks go on the more and more good I am with this being a good guy to fill that slot.
 
$8m isn't what $8m used to be, and with the expected rise of the cap, it's even less than we think.

The contract number shouldnt worry us

Disclaimer: I'm very pro "don't get out over your skis with contracts" and generally a huge believer in the way that the Borg has stayed nimble and used the way the cap works to never put themselves in a bad situation.

Having given that disclaimer, it's also become very clear over the years that you can basically snap your fingers and make all but the worst of the worst contracts disappear overnight if you really want. If Miller looks good here for the next 2 years, iffy for 2, and bad for 3, there are ways around that. Seth Jones and Darnell Nurse seem to be the only contracts bad enough that you can't do anything with them. NYR even got out from under Trouba for free.

It's certainly not a reason to go out seeking bad contracts or to be imprudent with long-term cap planning. But it gives the downside of these types of conversations a little less bite.
 
I’m gonna take Freidman and the Canucks reporters word over Adam Gold lol. Canes are in on every big name guy we know that so they’ve definitely called and if it fits their price they wanna pay then why not be in on it?
agreed with this, I won't say Gold doesn't know some things but he has missed the mark on some stuff and the current FO group is much more tight-lipped than Don or JR were. I won't say he's wrong but that mostly just comes down to a matter of odds than anything.
If Carolina wasn't interested in signing Miller to that contract, and wasn't interested in a long-term contract that will age poorly when it was longer and the player was younger, why would they be interested as the player ages?

Vancouver isn't retaining on Miller. I don't see the Miller's price making sense to Tulsky long-term, even if he wants to move out Kotkaniemi.
It kindof depends on 2 things IMO. 1 - if the projection that the cap could be upwards of 110 mil here in 2-3 years changes the math on how the value of a contract like Miller holds up in his years 5-7 contract wise (IMO it does), and 2 - if they think what we see is what we get with KK at this point when, back in 22-23 when these rumors were first surfacing the FO might have thought there was more development we could get from KK that just hasn't appeared to happen. Especially since KK had a hot start in 22-23 (again, when those rumors were going around the first time) but since has looked like a 30-40pt player despite being given significant opportunity with 2 of our 3 most offensively gifted players in Necas and/or Svech, never really clicking with both or either.
 
If we can get Miller for KK/Roslo plus our #1 pick then I say go for it. If the Nucks instead want one of our core pieces or one of our primo prospects I say fuggetaboutit and instead roll with our current roster and then retool in the summer. We all knew coming into the season we were going to take a haircut defensively due to losing Skjei/Pesce and when you add in our goalie situation this year it’s a f***ing miracle we are still in a solid playoff position currently. I’m definitely not interested in overpaying for J.T. even though I agree he would be an excellent fit for our needs…
 
$8m isn't what $8m used to be, and with the expected rise of the cap, it's even less than we think.

The contract number shouldnt worry us
It even represents a dollars-to-productivity gain if we can send KK in the other direction. There's more value in JTM at $8M than there is in Kotkaniemi at $4.8M, even factoring in the potential buyout.

I don't even want Miller; I just think the contract argument is suspect at this point and not the impediment it was under a flatter cap.
 
Gold cares about being relevant, not about helping/hurting the Canes organization. Which, to be fair, is probably the stance a journalist should take.
Agreed. I like his post game shows and do listen to his podcasts a bit. He will call out things more pointedly than Mike/Tripp on player weaknesses.

However, he often is very caustic towards fans on X and that is a turn off.
 
Disclaimer: I'm very pro "don't get out over your skis with contracts" and generally a huge believer in the way that the Borg has stayed nimble and used the way the cap works to never put themselves in a bad situation.

Having given that disclaimer, it's also become very clear over the years that you can basically snap your fingers and make all but the worst of the worst contracts disappear overnight if you really want. If Miller looks good here for the next 2 years, iffy for 2, and bad for 3, there are ways around that. Seth Jones and Darnell Nurse seem to be the only contracts bad enough that you can't do anything with them. NYR even got out from under Trouba for free.

It's certainly not a reason to go out seeking bad contracts or to be imprudent with long-term cap planning. But it gives the downside of these types of conversations a little less bite.
Yup, once NYR got the Trouba contract taken away for peanuts, it's become clear that anyone can get out of a bad contract if they want. If Miller works here, great, if it doesn't, there will be another team out there who will bring him in for whatever reasons they have at the time, especially if Miller has a year or 2 of very good play here.
 
Gold is one of the highest on my list of "the worst guy you know made a great point" events.

More often than not I agree with him on the hockey side of things (not always). But he comes off as a jerk.

I do wonder if it's a radio thing. I used to think of Maniscalco the same way (sans the "agreeing with him most of the time" piece) and once he moved to TV he's pivoted to being much softer.
oddly I never had THAT much of an issue with Mike on the radio, other than he simply had bad hot taeks at times. To me he never came across as caustic to anyone that wasn't that way toward him to begin with (the "hurrr durrr you're from Buffalo just admit you're a Sabres fan" crowd). There's times where I was going "you have no idea what you're talking about with that take" but that's another matter entirely.

Adam on the other hand does seem to have that bit about him where he's a bit (or more than a bit) of an ass for no real reason, even to people that have reasonable takes that just happen to disagree with him.
 
oddly I never had THAT much of an issue with Mike on the radio, other than he simply had bad hot taeks at times. To me he never came across as caustic to anyone that wasn't that way toward him to begin with (the "hurrr durrr you're from Buffalo just admit you're a Sabres fan" crowd). There's times where I was going "you have no idea what you're talking about with that take" but that's another matter entirely.

Adam on the other hand does seem to have that bit about him where he's a bit (or more than a bit) of an ass for no real reason, even to people that have reasonable takes that just happen to disagree with him.
Adam is always looking for a fight, presents himself as the biggest genius in the room that we are blessed to have talking to us, and if you disagree, he'll look for any way to deflect the conversation away from his words and onto how he can just invalidate you.

He's an asshat. And quite often when he speaks about hockey, even in the postgame, I wonder if he even understands how the sport works. So many of his takes are just head scratching
 
Agreed. I like his post game shows and do listen to his podcasts a bit. He will call out things more pointedly than Mike/Tripp on player weaknesses.

However, he often is very caustic towards fans on X and that is a turn off.
The condescension, in particular, can be a bit much at times. I shared his post because it was a reply rather than a primary one from him for clicks.

In general, there has been a bit of a turn in the tone of our fans' posts there, too. Much less of the happy to be here again and player support posts. They have been replaced by a lot more demanding, critical and POed replies. Maybe the Canes need to issue a transitional year reminder. The commentary/analysis is more measured and funnier to me on Bluesky and the stat bots are on top of it with the latest.
 

I love to hear that.

I think it's safe to assume it would be for a reasonable trade price from us for reasons previously discussed in this topic. I really don't care about his salary since we'd presumably trade KK, Miller performs at that salary range, and yeah, the cap is gonna go up.

Does anybody here know if Cam Strickland is usually good for insider comments?
 
I mean, guys. If this happens, we're not talking about "missing Trocheck" anymore. For this season and next, at the very least, we're talking the best 1/2 centers we've had since Staal/Brind'Amour from 06-08.
It just gives them so much more ways to matchup against top teams in the playoffs when you can throw staal over to check a first or second line and then next comes Miller and all of a sudden you’ve got aho matched up against a third line. Would give Rod 4 centres who are all over 50 percent on draws and all 4 can kill penalties
 

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