Roster Building XXII: Too Many Forwards, Hopefully One Cup

[chaz4hockey]

This guy sounds like the anticipated Pesce replacement in a few years. Whether that ever materializes, who knows, but thats exactly what his game sounds like.

with hopefully more offense

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

This guy sounds like the anticipated Pesce replacement in a few years. Whether that ever materializes, who knows, but thats exactly what his game sounds like.

I think the true Pesce successor, in terms of likelihood of panning out as an NHL prospect, is Badinka, but if Legault overperforms expectations, either one of them could be great trade bait at a future deadline.

 

[robbieberns]

The data from Natural Stat Trick and Moneypuck doesn't support that. He's played as a winger on MacKinnon's line way more than anything else (1931 minutes with, 586 without).

From Moneypuck it shows he's been on the wing mainly with Mackinnon as his C, but also Compher as his C the year before.

Last year's most common 5v5 lines with Rantanen in Colorado:
Drouin-Mackinnon-Rantanen: 485 minutes
Nichushkin-Mackinnon-Rantanen: 382 minutes
Lehkonen-Mackinnon-Rantanen: 161 minutes
Nichushkin-Mittelstadt-Rantanen: 32 minutes

Two seasons ago:
Lehkonen-Mackinnon-Rantanen: 324 minutes
Rodrigues-Mackinnon-Rantanen: 231 minutes
Rodrigues-Compher-Rantanen: 121 minutes
Nichushkin-Mackinnon-Rantanen: 108 minutes
Lehkonen-Compher-Rantanen: 96 minutes

I can’t believe there are strangers online who lied to me about this. I’ll remember those sources for later, i’m always to lazy to try and hunt down ways to get that info whenever I get thinking about that stuff.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I think the true Pesce successor, in terms of likelihood of panning out as an NHL prospect, is Badinka, but if Legault overperforms expectations, either one of them could be great trade bait at a future deadline.

Perhaps but why trade a cost controlled young defenseman?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Perhaps but why trade a cost controlled young defenseman?

This.

Plus, even ignoring the cost controlled part, a “future Pesce” isn’t worth much to other teams until he’s a “present Pesce.” We may be excited about Legault but no one else will be until he can prove he’s an NHL difference maker.

 

[Chan790]

Perhaps but why trade a cost controlled young defenseman?

Because how many young defensemen can we ice? We're good at developing them and it provides us an embarrassment of riches. Likewise, we have a lot of specs upfront that are either top-6-or-bust high-risk/reward or middle-6 guys. Drafting late 1st for the foreseeable future, our best opportunities for getting scoring help upfront are our blueline depth and acumen at developing defensemen.

It's part of the reason I argued that as long as he looks decent out there, we need to break in Morrow this year in the NHL. Because Nikishin will be coming over next year, probably not going to the AHL for even one day, and there's a pipeline behind him.

You don't really want to be breaking-in 2 or 3 young defensemen at the same time while also trying to compete so we need to stagger them out developmentally and we need to be making assessments on guys where they fit in our NHL future plans.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I think the true Pesce successor, in terms of likelihood of panning out as an NHL prospect, is Badinka, but if Legault overperforms expectations, either one of them could be great trade bait at a future deadline.

Unless they're a Nikishin or Morrow-level guy, "unproven" defensemen don't generally have much in trade value because it's a lot harder to hide their deficiencies than a forward...see Dylan Coghlan for reference. They generally have more internal value until they've proven more.

 

[CandyCanes]

Because how many young defensemen can we ice? We're good at developing them and it provides us an embarrassment of riches. Likewise, we have a lot of specs upfront that are either top-6-or-bust high-risk/reward or middle-6 guys. Drafting late 1st for the foreseeable future, our best opportunities for getting scoring help upfront are our blueline depth and acumen at developing defensemen.

It's part of the reason I argued that as long as he looks decent out there, we need to break in Morrow this year in the NHL. Because Nikishin will be coming over next year, probably not going to the AHL for even one day, and there's a pipeline behind him.

You don't really want to be breaking-in 2 or 3 young defensemen at the same time while also trying to compete so we need to stagger them out developmentally and we need to be making assessments on guys where they fit in our NHL future plans.

The good news is the baby Canes will likely be running the same system as the big boy Canes now that we have control of the Wolves. I don't think we need to force Morrow into the NHL this year. Let him get first pair minutes and learn the system in Chicago. Though I would like to see him hopefully get 10-15 or so games this year at the NHL level. To your point though, it's definitely a challenge trying to transition 2D prospects at the same time into the NHL. I'm a believer Nikishin's KHL experience & success will translate quickly into the NHL, & the year in the AHL for Morrow should hopefully be enough.

 

[NotOpie]

Because how many young defensemen can we ice? We're good at developing them and it provides us an embarrassment of riches. Likewise, we have a lot of specs upfront that are either top-6-or-bust high-risk/reward or middle-6 guys. Drafting late 1st for the foreseeable future, our best opportunities for getting scoring help upfront are our blueline depth and acumen at developing defensemen.

It's part of the reason I argued that as long as he looks decent out there, we need to break in Morrow this year in the NHL. Because Nikishin will be coming over next year, probably not going to the AHL for even one day, and there's a pipeline behind him.

You don't really want to be breaking-in 2 or 3 young defensemen at the same time while also trying to compete so we need to stagger them out developmentally and we need to be making assessments on guys where they fit in our NHL future plans.

Next season there will likely be one LHD and one RHD slot to be filled. We will also likely have injuries which means call ups and "auditions".

I still believe you'll see Nikishin and Morrow take those two slots unless a Legault or Heimosalmi or Badinka force their way into the conversation. If that's the case, then Morrow would be the most likely trade chip going forward. RHD with a good pedigree and likely a year of NHL experience under his belt.

As was said, trading defensemen who are unproven at the NHL level likely doesn't return much. But we may be way too premature here with guys like Nadeau, Blake, and Trikozov hopefully developing and forcing their way into Rod's plans.

 

[TheBigLetowski]

Do something, Canes

 

[Tryamw]

Do something, Canes

Thought they were practicing...that's something

 

[spockBokk]

Do something, Canes

Think towards the end of next week there will be some movement with Necas’ arb hearing coming up. There has to be.

Bold prediction, I know.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Anyone find it interesting that Canes all spintered this summer for wedding events. (showcases perhaps that team unity wasn’t as strong as we fans think?)

Fins+Jarvis/Fast at Aho’s wedding
Necas at Mrazek’s
Freddie at Bunting’s

No other team members and you would think there would be a lot more at Aho’s, a team leader.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

My son played high level soccer and found that socially South Americans hung with South Americans, Euros with Euros, North Americans with North Americans, etc.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Anyone find it interesting that Canes all spintered this summer for wedding events. (showcases perhaps that team unity wasn’t as strong as we fans think?)

Fins+Jarvis/Fast at Aho’s wedding
Necas at Mrazek’s
Freddie at Bunting’s

No other team members and you would think there would be a lot more at Aho’s, a team leader.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

My son played high level soccer and found that socially South Americans hung with South Americans, Euros with Euros, North Americans with North Americans, etc.

I think you're reading too much into it. For one, all those weddings were relatively close to each other. If they were more spread out, I'm sure they would have gone to the ones they were invited to.
Secondly, all you pointed out here is that most of the Canes went to Aho's except Necas, who went to his countryman's (and they appear to have a close friendship). Freddie went to Bunting's with a bunch of current and former Leafs.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I think you're reading too much into it. For one, all those weddings were relatively close to each other. If they were more spread out, I'm sure they would have gone to the ones they were invited to.
Secondly, all you pointed out here is that most of the Canes went to Aho's except Necas, who went to his countryman's (and they appear to have a close friendship). Freddie went to Bunting's with a bunch of current and former Leafs.

Not to mention, that's a LOT of travel to go to all those weddings in different places, AND you have to be invited which gets expensive for the hosts. Even if I got married I don't think I'd invite my entire team of coworkers, but probably those I'm closer to.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I think you're reading too much into it. For one, all those weddings were relatively close to each other. If they were more spread out, I'm sure they would have gone to the ones they were invited to.
Secondly, all you pointed out here is that most of the Canes went to Aho's except Necas, who went to his countryman's (and they appear to have a close friendship). Freddie went to Bunting's with a bunch of current and former Leafs.

Perhaps. There weren’t any non-Fins x Jarvis (who is honorary) and Fast. Please note that the Ru guys, Svetch and Orlov were in Russia. Staal, Burns, Chatty, Skeji-Pesce, Lemieux, Drury were not there either.

 

[cptjeff]

I think you're reading too much into it. For one, all those weddings were relatively close to each other. If they were more spread out, I'm sure they would have gone to the ones they were invited to.
Secondly, all you pointed out here is that most of the Canes went to Aho's except Necas, who went to his countryman's (and they appear to have a close friendship). Freddie went to Bunting's with a bunch of current and former Leafs.

Mrazek and Necas are extremely close friends. For Necas to miss his wedding would have been pretty unthinkable.

Def reading WAY too much into this. No matter how cohesive the group, when it's 20+ people some are always going to be closer than others.

 

[MinJaBen]

Mrazek and Necas are extremely close friends. For Necas to miss his wedding would have been pretty unthinkable.

Def reading WAY too much into this. No matter how cohesive the group, when it's 20+ people some are always going to be closer than others.

Add to that that all their families know when their window would be available for family events and the small size of that window, a bunch of those that "didn't go" may have also already had full personal schedules.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Peak offseason ridiculous thought right there.

 

[NotOpie]

Think towards the end of next week there will be some movement with Necas’ arb hearing coming up. There has to be.

Bold prediction, I know.

Necas has his arbitration hearing on Aug. 4 I believe.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

OGWC may be the only option left. Giving Tavares, Nelson or Giroux short deals is much better than going anywhere near Duchene.

 

[SvechneJerk]

Puckpedia's GM Mode is operational. It's not bad, honestly.

 

[spockBokk]

CBJ’s Athletic writer making guesses about where Laine ends up:

• So, now that Patrik Laine trade talks can commence, where might Laine be traded? That’s tough to say. There are only six clubs (Anaheim, Calgary, Carolina, Detroit, San Jose and Utah), according to PuckPedia, that currently have $8.7 million (or more) in cap space, or enough to add Laine’s salary without a contract coming off the books or without Columbus retaining a portion of Laine’s salary. The list more than doubles if you assume the Blue Jackets will take on $4.7 million of his salary, either by taking a player in return (Waddell’s strong desire) or if a portion of that is in retained salary. Put another way: There are plenty of destinations. If we had to pick two: Anaheim and Carolina, with Montreal an outside shot.

Blue Jackets Sunday Gathering: Arbitration avoided after Kirill Marchenko signs

The Blue Jackets announced Sunday they've agreed to terms with Marchenko's agent on a three-year, $11.55 million contract.

www.nytimes.com

Don’t see where Necas for Laine makes sense at all from a Canes’ perspective, so would think a trade would have to involve heavy retention, futures and Fast likely to LTIR. Seems like at lot to sort through…

 

[Unsustainable]

Get them to retain 4.7m and we send KK the other way and save 100k lol.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

A Laine deal is going to require a 1.7 million retain with kk going back and we’ll send some high ceiling but high bust prospect types/pick.

Jarvis would have to be a bridge deal