Roster Building XXI: It Gon' Go Down.

[Discipline Daddy]

It's good negotiating to be offering around $8M or a little under that right now, and then up the offer to $8.25M or $8.5M at the eve of free agency.

I believe today teams can start talking with free agents without any circumvention fears (though we all know it happens sneakily beforehand). Guentzel should know within 1-2 days all the offers he'll get, and can compare them with the Hurricanes' best offer.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

"THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID...I DIDN'T SAY $8M I SAID $7.999M"

That's how that reads at least, like calm the f*** down it's not like you said 5 and someone said you said 8

250k is a little more than 1 dollar. People misquote these insiders regularly. what is the issue with correcting them sometimes?

 

[Moist ReadOnly]

that post was made well before DeMelo signed. but thanks for the heads up.......

I just dont understand the Hurricanes inability to keep talent; surely the ECF hurdle is something youd think opening your wallet for would see return on

Each and every year theyre close and refuse to sign or trade for talent - its insanity, to be honest. They want to keep their cake and eat it too

Better hope Nikishin is the best defenseman in the NHL when he shows up - the amount of talent Carolina has let walk by them because of him is astounding

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I just dont understand the Hurricanes inability to keep talent; surely the ECF hurdle is something youd think opening your wallet for would see return on

Each and every year theyre close and refuse to sign or trade for talent - its insanity, to be honest. They want to keep their cake and eat it too

Better hope Nikishin is the best defenseman in the NHL when he shows up - the amount of talent Carolina has let walk by them because of him is astounding

its a choice not an inability. Dont believe in signing guys long term who they do not believe to be key pieces and dont believe in paying role players too much.

if it was an issue we wouldnt be as good as we are. winning the cup has very little to do with not keeping hamilton, nino, trocheck, etc.

 

[DaveG]

I agree about being prepared to step back which is on the table to me. I don’t know about the last two years though. I thought on paper we had a strong team and we obviously had good seasons, it just never felt like we had a championship squad in either year. You of course can always have a great run but with injuries last year, and the forward mix feeling off this year as well as the goaltending being not quite there I wasn’t thinking we were going to make it all the way. I think that’s why I’ve accepted that this summer could be a pretty big shift, as I don’t think this current build has it.

I won’t judge next year until we know what it really looks like though.

This year... not overly. We had a chance if we got the breaks, we didn't get the breaks.

Last year absolutely killed me when we did nothing of note at the deadline, killed me. That was THE team for this core. As loaded as Vegas was I still think a healthy version of our team gives them a hell of a series at worst. Svech and Patches going down doomed us in the end, but Patches being down was known ahead of time and what did we do to replace him? f***ing nothing... actually worse than nothing, we facilitated a trade for Edmonton by taking Puljujarvi so that they could bring in what's now their best defenseman, eating away at what cap space was available to us to make a move in the process. The FO was so f***ing focused on Timo Meier that they had no backup plan and SJ was stringing us along the entire time. Telling Grier to shit or get off the pot and going out and grabbing Nino earlier in the process legitimately would have put the team in a much better position going into that post-season.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

its a choice not an inability. Dont believe in signing guys long term who they do not believe to be key pieces and dont believe in paying role players too much.

if it was an issue we wouldnt be as good as we are. winning the cup has very little to do with not keeping hamilton, nino, trocheck, etc.

I don't agree with you on a lot of things, but this particular principle is one that I do. Look at how all of the best teams run their cap structure. None of Vegas, Carolina, Boston, or Florida tend to overpay their players. Florida's worst contract, Bobrovsky, was a relic from a prior administration, and the FO successfully worked around it without making a salary dump trade. Arguably, all of these teams slightly underpay in many cases.

 

[Joe McGrath]

its a choice not an inability. Dont believe in signing guys long term who they do not believe to be key pieces and dont believe in paying role players too much.

if it was an issue we wouldnt be as good as we are. winning the cup has very little to do with not keeping hamilton, nino, trocheck, etc.

Tro over KK would have made this team complete to be fair.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Tro over KK would have made this team complete to be fair.

The Ranger's trocheck sure but we never saw that level of Trocheck.

 

[bleedgreen]

This year... not overly. We had a chance if we got the breaks, we didn't get the breaks.

Last year absolutely killed me when we did nothing of note at the deadline, killed me. That was THE team for this core. As loaded as Vegas was I still think a healthy version of our team gives them a hell of a series at worst. Svech and Patches going down doomed us in the end, but Patches being down was known ahead of time and what did we do to replace him? f***ing nothing... actually worse than nothing, we facilitated a trade for Edmonton by taking Puljujarvi so that they could bring in what's now their best defenseman, eating away at what cap space was available to us to make a move in the process. The FO was so f***ing focused on Timo Meier that they had no backup plan and SJ was stringing us along the entire time. Telling Grier to shit or get off the pot and going out and grabbing Nino earlier in the process legitimately would have put the team in a much better position going into that post-season.

I agree that deadline was fumbled and we’ve heard suggestions that may have been a TD thing. In the end I think we still would fall short but it’s fair to say we would’ve been a better team so therefore we could’ve done it.

If we want to be the best we still have to take swings at the good players. I feel like other than Jake we may be in replacement mode vs aggressive improvement mode. We’ll see here very soon.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

The Ranger's trocheck sure but we never saw that level of Trocheck.

Also, a hugely important point to make. They've tied Trocheck to Panarin through his entire time with the Rangers. How much of the offensive increase is coming directly from the Breadman? The Canes have a lot of very good two-way wingers, but none on the offensive level of Panarin.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't agree with you on a lot of things, but this particular principle is one that I do. Look at how all of the best teams run their cap structure. None of Vegas, Carolina, Boston, or Florida tend to overpay their players. Florida's worst contract, Bobrovsky, was a relic from a prior administration, and the FO successfully worked around it without making a salary dump trade. Arguably, all of these teams slightly underpay in many cases.

True, but you’re saying this a few days before the guy who scored 50 plus goals and the cup winner goes to market. We’ll see what their plan is now.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

dang getting paid to taking on Walman? I would have do that. Walman would have made a really good 3LD.

 

[DaveG]

Tro over KK would have made this team complete to be fair.

yeah no argument there. If we had looked at KK as a lost gamble and traded him at the draft a couple years ago instead of re-signing him, and bringing back Tro instead, we'd be in a better long-term situation. As we're sitting right now our two best bets at that spot are Kuzy regaining his form, or Necas (or Jarvis) making the move to play C full-time when they've never played the position in the NHL. As much as I'd love to bring Lindholm back it's unrealistic.

 

[Brock Anton]

dang getting paid to taking on Walman? I would have do that. Walman would have made a really good 3LD.

Yzerman must have something big coming if he's paying SJ to take a pretty decent D man.

 

[Lempo]

"THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID...I DIDN'T SAY $8M I SAID $7.999M"

That's how that reads at least, like calm the f*** down it's not like you said 5 and someone said you said 8

The man got a Seattle XD cred to live up to, and he really hasn't been up to it lately.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

True, but you’re saying this a few days before the guy who scored 50 plus goals and the cup winner goes to market. We’ll see what their plan is now.

That's true, but I think there's a far greater chance that Florida chooses Montour over Reinhart to extend. Could be wrong, but I think Florida can still afford to be picky with handing out extensions. Extending an important RHD coming off a down year offensively feels like the more prototypical Bill Zito thing to do.

 

[bleedgreen]

Also, a hugely important point to make. They've tied Trocheck to Panarin through his entire time with the Rangers. How much of the offensive increase is coming directly from the Breadman? The Canes have a lot of very good two-way wingers, but none on the offensive level of Panarin.

Trocheck is the same player he was here. Put him with more talent and he scores more.

People focus on the lesser of the two seasons he had here for some reason though. The better of the two isn’t too far off the rate of production he has in NY, the rest is of course Panarin influenced. That’s a two way street though. Panarin is benefitting from Tro as well. Tro feeding Panarin instead of Necas three years ago. Trocheck’s Panarin oriented points aren’t weak plays that he’s being rewarded for.

He also didn’t change his style of play in the playoffs. He played exactly the same way he played here, we just don’t score. He won faceoffs, board battles and was a pain in the ass to play against. He passes to better players now and receives better passes in better spots.

He didn’t develop into a different player at 30 or start doing different things….or try harder.

 

[robbieberns]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Reinhart/Montour aren’t signed for anyone day one. Can’t imagine they’ve thought about it and if I were them I’d want a few weeks to celebrate/relax/contemplate my decision.

 

[Joe McGrath]

The Ranger's trocheck sure but we never saw that level of Trocheck.

He would be fine as Canes level of Trochek. At least they would have an actual 2nd line center.

Edit: also everything bleedgreen said

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

He would be fine as Canes level of Trochek. At least they would have an actual 2nd line center.

Edit: also everything bleedgreen said

too bad he didnt accept a near same dollar contract as the one he got in NYR. says he didnt have much interest in staying.

 

[Brock Anton]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Reinhart/Montour aren’t signed for anyone day one. Can’t imagine they’ve thought about it and if I were them I’d want a few weeks to celebrate/relax/contemplate my decision.

I think Reinhart takes less to stay. Montour should look to cash-in, because he was pretty poor in the playoffs.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

I just dont understand the Hurricanes inability to keep talent; surely the ECF hurdle is something youd think opening your wallet for would see return on

Each and every year theyre close and refuse to sign or trade for talent - its insanity, to be honest. They want to keep their cake and eat it too

Better hope Nikishin is the best defenseman in the NHL when he shows up - the amount of talent Carolina has let walk by them because of him is astounding

The plan from Dundon and the front office is basically "we want to make the playoffs every year for a decade and have a chance rather then go all in for 2-3 years and then be bad"

Basically go with the idea of once you're in then anything can happen.

 

[bleedgreen]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Reinhart/Montour aren’t signed for anyone day one. Can’t imagine they’ve thought about it and if I were them I’d want a few weeks to celebrate/relax/contemplate my decision.

That’s a shitty angle for those guys. They should be celebrating the best days of their careers and they could be on different teams by early next week.

 

[Svechhammer]

Also, a hugely important point to make. They've tied Trocheck to Panarin through his entire time with the Rangers. How much of the offensive increase is coming directly from the Breadman? The Canes have a lot of very good two-way wingers, but none on the offensive level of Panarin.

Which is why I firmly believe it's imperative that they bring back Guentzel. Is he a direct comparable to Panarin? No, but he's absolutely the closest we have had in a very long time and legitimately makes Aho the kind of 1C we know he can be. We think Jarvis could be that good, but Guentzel is that kind of guy in his prime right now.

If he goes elsewhere it sets us back and will probably necessitate getting creative with a trade to bring in someone like that longer term.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

too bad he didnt accept a near same dollar contract as the one he got in NYR. says he didnt have much interest in staying.

I actually heard at the time that the Canes offered almost the exact same contract to Trocheck that they eventually gave to KK, 8x$4.9M. Considering that NY gave a 7 year pact, that's practically an equivalent contract.