Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVI - It’s Miller Time…K-A

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Three years running, Miller has 22 more points NOT playing with anyone on Panarin's level.

Hell, no one on Mika's level

That’s three years TOTAL, not running. Running means each of the last three years.
Already said most feel he’s better that Strome, just not Nils, Krav and a 1st better. An average of 7.33 points per year upgrade isn’t worth that no matter that he was playing with a Boeser level goal scorer rather than Panarin and whoever was plugged in on the other side. I mean YOU are free to believe he’s that much better but don’t expect agreement.
 
I find it funny that they reference that the small relationship to Drury is why they know Pavelski is a class teammate like it isn't a completely well known fact across the entire league how good of a teammate Pavelski is. He must have gotten his Captain America nickname due to his love of Marvel movies.

Especially with the timing, it reads like he googled "2010 US olympic team roster" while watching the game yesterday. Reeks of BS, unsurprisingly.
 
This trade deadline is a really tricky one for Drury. It's very easy to screw up. There are a lot of moving parts.

1. RENTALS
There are lots of "big" name rentals right now that will be narrowed down to a handful -- like 2 or 3 -- Hertl is likely to resign. Pavelski may not move. That means there will be a lot of suitors for Giroux. The pricetag will likely be substantial. And I'm not sure the Rangers should be trading A prospects or 1st round picks for rentals this year. There are too many teams that are simply in another class still. Lightning, Canes, Panthers, Avs, Vegas. I think we are clearly in the tier below those 5 teams. So, if we do rent, I think we need to focus on the 2nd and 3rd tier players on the rental list.

2. TOP PROSPECTS THAT WE NEED TO MOVE
- Kravtsov will likely need to be traded by the draft. If Drury moves him for a rental that's pretty bad asset management for a former 9th overall who is likely to have a career. 3rd rounder is also terrible asset management. Using VK in a package for a guy with term is likely his best use. But... bringing on anyone with term likely means trading roster players or at least saying goodbye to one in the offseason. Aka Ryan Strome, possibly Chytil. Hopefully Nemeth.
- Lundkvist. As mentioned by Vince M, it seems like Nils' patience with playing in HFD is limited. He is now potentially blocked by Schneider at RHD and it's unlikely he's going to show patience required to wait out Trouba. Lundkvist may need to move between now and next season as well. yet another 1st rounder we may not get the full value for. Again, with NL, you cannot trade him for a rental in a year we are unlikely going to win a cup. He would need to go for another team's top prospect -- (Kings?) or he would need to be part of a package for a player with term. If he is moved for a player with term, see 2022-23 cap issues as mentioned above.

3. STROME
if Strome won't come in at around 5.5m, we need to find another option. We should not be moving Kakko just keep Strome. Again, we will need to find a way to terminate Nemeth or move him in the offseason. We need more space. And even 1m freed up matters.

4. NEED 1-2 TOP 9 forwards
Kakko and Laf have not been able to assume full time top 6 minutes and produce (yet). But because we are in contention for playoffs, that issue is magnified. Plus, our 3rd line has lacked identity all year long. Only Goodrow is a good long term fit there. Gauthier, Chytil can be effective players but neither have transformed their game to become dependable 3rd line role players. Chytil needs to move to wing full time. And Gauthier is still 1-2 years away at best from making the transition to that kind of player. If he can ever get there. Barron is ideal at some point to be a bottom 6 player. Long term, Cullye and Berard are ideal. We need a 3rd line that has Goody + one other vet this year + Barron/Chytil or most likely Laff (unfortunately).

5. BOTTOM PAIR D
Schneider + ?. Nemeth, Tinordi and Hajek are not good options. Jones likely won't be given the chance. I don't see Gallant going with an all rookie bottom pair. So, we will need a far better vet option.

6. KAKKO OFFER SHEET
This may seem alarmist -- but Kotkaniemi was offer sheeted in the offseason and I don't think he is as good as Kakko. Rangers are going to be in a cap crunch and if someone offers Kakko anything north of 4 or 5 for 1 year, we're going to be F'd. I also don't get the sense that Kakko loves it here. We never really brought in another Finn other than having Georgy around who played for TPS prior to NHL. Again, nothing might come of it. But there is a legit chance someone might offer sheet Kakko. And it could literally be the Canes or MTL. The Rangers are likely focused on 2C before Kakko deal, and Kakko likely wants to finish strong to get a bigger bridge -- but they really should try to strike a deal before the FA period.

7. TRADE TARGETS WITH TERM
This one is really tricky. Given the cap situation next year and the year after, Rangers need to target players who are still under team control and making 5m range or lower. Anyone who is about to hit UFA will likely be hard to retain. The best move is a hockey trade using VK, NL, B prospects or draft capital as bait to land a young NHL top 9 forward (23-24 y/o) who has 2-3 seasons of control. But that is literally the hardest trade to make because those are the most coveted assets in the league. Hintz, Chychrun (on D) are examples of this kind of player.

That's why JT Miller keeps coming up. He is just outside of this kind of player and has only 1 more year of control. But because his contract is in the 5m range he's still considered a decent option as it buys a year to figure out a long term solution. But we are going to have to give up a lot for JT. Not just having to lose Strome in the offseason, but the current ask on JT is something in the ballpark of Kravtsov, Lundkvist and possibly a 1st. Which is, essentially 2-3 firsts. I think that's insane for just one 1 year of JT Miller.

EDIT: GEORGY
He's not coming back next year. We need to move him and bring up Kinkaid or grab another backup on the cheap.

If I'm Drury, I overpay a bit for the right 23/24 year old. Or I look into 1 for 1 prospect swaps for guys like Lundkvist and VK. And I look into guys like Lehkonen and Paul.

But bottom line - we are in an in-between season. We are no longer rebuilding but we are not yet in that top tier of contenders. We have some great pieces, but we are lacking the kind of NHL depth a team needs to compete at the highest levels. When the third line is still a repository for young guys who aren't good enough for top 6 minutes and the fourth line still has 2 players that should be 13th forwards, and the 3rd pair D is a rookie and a ? we are not ready. Are we 1 player away? No. Are we 3 players away? I mean, maybe. But once teams have the depth solved, then they tend to spend another 2-3 years wondering if they have the right core to get over the hump. So, yeah, we can't waste high value assets on the short term here or it will severely shorten our contention window. Even if it was still Gorton and JD, this would be a really challenging time. Just hope we don't make any more Buch trades.

good post, I agree with a lot of it. I wouldn’t be too worried about a kakko offer sheet though...
He’s got to sign off on it, but mainly I don’t see anyone offer sheeting anyone while Sather is still in a position of power here.
He’s very well respected in the league.
I also don’t see some team extending an offer sheet and pissing the rangers/Drury off with the resources this org has at its disposal.
We’ll be tight up on the cap for 2 years, but moves will be made, salaries will come and go and no team wants a target on their back when the rangers have cap room and a vendetta.
Drury/Sather may not get their revenge that season or the following one, but I assure, they would make it their personal mission to screw the team that did that to them pretty bad.
Offer sheets aren’t really a common practice, if they were more popular you’d see more over the last 10 or so years in the cap era.
Besides MTL and Car throwing mud at each other, they are just not common.
Plus these GMs/owners have no idea the financial future in the next 3 seasons.... I highly highly doubt we’ll see a flat cap for 3 more years..... 95% of teams will be up against the cap and it will kill UFA/player movement.
Not only that, but look at the salaries these guys gave out last year, especially for the various D men. There were no concessions made for high end players to take pay cuts...
That tells me most owners don’t expect a flat cap too much longer, and if they do, certain concessions will be made. Maybe they bring back the compliance Buyout to shed cap without penalty? Or some other form of giving teams wiggle room.
If not, your going to see a whole bunch of teams doing silly things to try and circumvent the cap like Tampa did and Vegas will do this season.....
This league/sport cannot survive another lockout.....
 
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I agree it would be the right move but that extra year on the contract will makeit a tough sell.

I also agree that trading their 5M third line wing who has 21 points in 46 games is the right move to clear cap space if needed. If only it were so easy.
 
This trade deadline is a really tricky one for Drury. It's very easy to screw up. There are a lot of moving parts.

1. RENTALS
There are lots of "big" name rentals right now that will be narrowed down to a handful -- like 2 or 3 -- Hertl is likely to resign. Pavelski may not move. That means there will be a lot of suitors for Giroux. The pricetag will likely be substantial. And I'm not sure the Rangers should be trading A prospects or 1st round picks for rentals this year. There are too many teams that are simply in another class still. Lightning, Canes, Panthers, Avs, Vegas. I think we are clearly in the tier below those 5 teams. So, if we do rent, I think we need to focus on the 2nd and 3rd tier players on the rental list.

2. TOP PROSPECTS THAT WE NEED TO MOVE
- Kravtsov will likely need to be traded by the draft. If Drury moves him for a rental that's pretty bad asset management for a former 9th overall who is likely to have a career. 3rd rounder is also terrible asset management. Using VK in a package for a guy with term is likely his best use. But... bringing on anyone with term likely means trading roster players or at least saying goodbye to one in the offseason. Aka Ryan Strome, possibly Chytil. Hopefully Nemeth.
- Lundkvist. As mentioned by Vince M, it seems like Nils' patience with playing in HFD is limited. He is now potentially blocked by Schneider at RHD and it's unlikely he's going to show patience required to wait out Trouba. Lundkvist may need to move between now and next season as well. yet another 1st rounder we may not get the full value for. Again, with NL, you cannot trade him for a rental in a year we are unlikely going to win a cup. He would need to go for another team's top prospect -- (Kings?) or he would need to be part of a package for a player with term. If he is moved for a player with term, see 2022-23 cap issues as mentioned above.

3. STROME
if Strome won't come in at around 5.5m, we need to find another option. We should not be moving Kakko just keep Strome. Again, we will need to find a way to terminate Nemeth or move him in the offseason. We need more space. And even 1m freed up matters.

4. NEED 1-2 TOP 9 forwards
Kakko and Laf have not been able to assume full time top 6 minutes and produce (yet). But because we are in contention for playoffs, that issue is magnified. Plus, our 3rd line has lacked identity all year long. Only Goodrow is a good long term fit there. Gauthier, Chytil can be effective players but neither have transformed their game to become dependable 3rd line role players. Chytil needs to move to wing full time. And Gauthier is still 1-2 years away at best from making the transition to that kind of player. If he can ever get there. Barron is ideal at some point to be a bottom 6 player. Long term, Cullye and Berard are ideal. We need a 3rd line that has Goody + one other vet this year + Barron/Chytil or most likely Laff (unfortunately).

5. BOTTOM PAIR D
Schneider + ?. Nemeth, Tinordi and Hajek are not good options. Jones likely won't be given the chance. I don't see Gallant going with an all rookie bottom pair. So, we will need a far better vet option.

6. KAKKO OFFER SHEET
This may seem alarmist -- but Kotkaniemi was offer sheeted in the offseason and I don't think he is as good as Kakko. Rangers are going to be in a cap crunch and if someone offers Kakko anything north of 4 or 5 for 1 year, we're going to be F'd. I also don't get the sense that Kakko loves it here. We never really brought in another Finn other than having Georgy around who played for TPS prior to NHL. Again, nothing might come of it. But there is a legit chance someone might offer sheet Kakko. And it could literally be the Canes or MTL. The Rangers are likely focused on 2C before Kakko deal, and Kakko likely wants to finish strong to get a bigger bridge -- but they really should try to strike a deal before the FA period.

7. TRADE TARGETS WITH TERM
This one is really tricky. Given the cap situation next year and the year after, Rangers need to target players who are still under team control and making 5m range or lower. Anyone who is about to hit UFA will likely be hard to retain. The best move is a hockey trade using VK, NL, B prospects or draft capital as bait to land a young NHL top 9 forward (23-24 y/o) who has 2-3 seasons of control. But that is literally the hardest trade to make because those are the most coveted assets in the league. Hintz, Chychrun (on D) are examples of this kind of player.

That's why JT Miller keeps coming up. He is just outside of this kind of player and has only 1 more year of control. But because his contract is in the 5m range he's still considered a decent option as it buys a year to figure out a long term solution. But we are going to have to give up a lot for JT. Not just having to lose Strome in the offseason, but the current ask on JT is something in the ballpark of Kravtsov, Lundkvist and possibly a 1st. Which is, essentially 2-3 firsts. I think that's insane for just one 1 year of JT Miller.

EDIT: GEORGY
He's not coming back next year. We need to move him and bring up Kinkaid or grab another backup on the cheap.

If I'm Drury, I overpay a bit for the right 23/24 year old. Or I look into 1 for 1 prospect swaps for guys like Lundkvist and VK. And I look into guys like Lehkonen and Paul.

But bottom line - we are in an in-between season. We are no longer rebuilding but we are not yet in that top tier of contenders. We have some great pieces, but we are lacking the kind of NHL depth a team needs to compete at the highest levels. When the third line is still a repository for young guys who aren't good enough for top 6 minutes and the fourth line still has 2 players that should be 13th forwards, and the 3rd pair D is a rookie and a ? we are not ready. Are we 1 player away? No. Are we 3 players away? I mean, maybe. But once teams have the depth solved, then they tend to spend another 2-3 years wondering if they have the right core to get over the hump. So, yeah, we can't waste high value assets on the short term here or it will severely shorten our contention window. Even if it was still Gorton and JD, this would be a really challenging time. Just hope we don't make any more Buch trades.

Good post and I agree as well.

So heres the deal - we will see what he does and we should get a better idea of whos really pulling the strings or adding pressure to go for it.

If Drury is as sharp of GM as he was billed to be when he was brought in - and he actually has full autonomy we should see some refrain in how he approaches the roster. You outlined all of the scenarios well.

I could see them trying to bring in vet Dman and RW, especially if Kakko is sidelined longterm. Not so sure about a C, as it will be too costly.
 
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The leverage he'd have then would be to not sign it... a 6-year deal - he'd never get higher AAV than Goodrow, say, and he might never be good. He wouldn't do it. He should get the Lindgren deal ATC for both parties.

He will be good and should get around 4-5m.
 
I agree it would be the right move but that extra year on the contract will makeit a tough sell.
If arz was willing to take the contract for a future 1st would vegas do it? maybe, arz has said they will take money/contracts for prospects and picks.
 
The only people's teasing are the posters that keep suggesting Vegas will have to give players away bc of the cap. If you want someone from Vegas you'll have to pay for them...
One way or another they’re going to have to give up or waive a player once Eichel and Martinez come off the IR. 5o contracts- 51 players = -1 player.
 
One way or another they’re going to have to give up or waive a player once Eichel and Martinez come off the IR. 5o contracts- 51 players = -1 player.
Players on LTIR still count towards the 50 contract limit. So they're in the same situation whether they're healthy or not.
 
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or QO'd then traded.

a common HFB meme is declaring player's have virtually no value.
history has shown otherwise

maybe i am in minority, but will be totally shocked if, come summer, he is NYR RFA who is non-QO'd
Where is the market for Georgiev? We were reportedly searching for trade partner, and didn’t find one. How has that changed after a half season of inconsistent play?
 
It's a huge risk for a guy with next to no value. I wouldn't do it even it were only because of the cap situation next year.

i thoroughly doubt the "next to no value" premise
been watching too NHL closely for far too long,
we shall see
 
1) Let Ryan Strome walk in the summer. He's been a great Ranger and it's time for him to get paid. We should not be the highest bidder.

2) Trade Kravtsov+Lundkvist+Chytil for a center with term and significant retention to replace Strome, either at the deadline or in the offseason. wonder how much it would cost to get Kopitar with major retention.

3) Either trade Georgiev or let him walk. It's not a big deal if we lost him for nothing, in my opinion.

4) Trade Reunanen for a young center in a similar situation to Tarmo. Depth for Depth.

5) Trade Nemeth

I'm not opposed to any of that, except I then always end up coming back to - if we're just going to let Strome walk, why not trade him at the TDL for what should be some useful assets?

Playoffs are almost a lock and should by the deadline (yeah yeah, hubris) so the kids still get their playoff experience this season, and I just can't see Strome being the difference on whether we can get to the 2nd round or not.

Trade out Strome of he's gone anyway, get a longer term peice if there's one available at the right price, and see which kids if any can step it up come playoffs
 
Where is the market for Georgiev? We were reportedly searching for trade partner, and didn’t find one. How has that changed after a half season of inconsistent play?

Show me the sub .900 backup goalie with a 2+M contract that fetched something decent (let's say 3rd round pick) or better.

nope, that's not my job
i am not pushing people to justify or validate their expectations,
and altho i shared, i don't care if anyone buys mine

we'll see what happens
 
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