Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[bernmeister]

Rangers didn’t hire Laviolette to trade NHL player for more draft picks, I hate to be the bearer of bad news

The actual bad news is Rangers may be stupid enuf to not listen to me, despite a general track record of being correct, including here.
win now = junkies trying to get another immediate fix
then they wonder why they have no assets life to live a good life

LaF = value kept
LaF = value traded
have to have an open mind about which is better based on potential deals

 

[Michal]

I view Goodrow's situation differently than other people. The Rangers need Goodrow's money to fill out their roster with solid depth players. The Rangers need an upgrade at D. Harpur did a good job for them but they need someone better. The Rangers don't have any money. Very similar to Brad Richards in 2014. The Rangers had to pay Brassard and Zucarrello. They needed money. I remember Larry Brooks couldn’t figure out why the Rangers needed to use an amnesty buyout on Richards. They need the space Larry. The Rangers couldn't buyout Richards and use the $6,666,667 on another player. The Rangers gave Brassard $25M over 5 years and gave Zuccarello one year at $3.5M because they had no space to give him an extra million more which they did the following season. The Rangers needed the Richards money to make the pieces fit. The Rangers are in the same position with Goodrow.

I think It's better to move Goodrow next offseason in order to sign Kakko, Lindgren and Schneider (when the salary cap upper limit is about 87,7m).

 

[Vitto79]

Good idea also, let's ignore the picks I specified as adds

Have you looked at the stats on how many even 2nd rounders make the nhl ?

Tampa traded their whole draft for Jewnnot this year like bone heads but they did make a valid point

 

[Vitto79]

The actual bad news is Rangers may be stupid enuf to not listen to me, despite a general track record of being correct, including here.
win now = junkies trying to get another immediate fix
then they wonder why they have no assets life to live a good life

LaF = value kept
LaF = value traded
have to have an open mind about which is better based on potential deals

I would like 1 example of a team that has done what you suggest ?

 

[rvdnsx1]

We better keep Kane

I think Kane stays if the team doesn’t insult him with an offer. If they trade Goodrow with no retention I can see most of that money going to Kane. He’s not gonna accept $1M AAV. But if the Rangers offer him $3M AAV he’d probably take a 1-2 year deal. We all know he wants to retire back in Chicago at some point and probably play with Bedard.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

I’d put Othmann in Cuylle’s spot, Cuylle in Motte’s spot and not sign Motte.

My thought process is if othmann tears it up in training camp or his first X games in HFD just waive motte and let othmann take that 3rd line LW spot and bump cuylle to 4th LW.

 

[RGY]

I think the truth is that SOMEONE will pay Hathaway $2m. I just don’t think that SOMEONE should be the Rangers. Not right now

Thank you Viper. He wasn’t grasping that concept.

 

[NYR Viper]

My thought process is if othmann tears it up in training camp or his first X games in HFD just waive motte and let othmann take that 3rd line LW spot and bump cuylle to 4th LW.

And I think that’s a good problem to have. But I wouldn’t assume that’s going to happen.

 

[frozenrubber]

They like Binnington. He's not moving.

The Blues would LOVE if Binnington fell into a woodchipper this offseason. He has 4 years at 6M/yr left and even his team and coach were openly frustrated/exhausted by him last season.

Now I don't see a team lining up to take him, but if the Blues ever had a legitimate chance to get rid of Jordan, they would in a heartbeat.

 

[bernmeister]

Have you looked at the stats on how many even 2nd rounders make the nhl ?

Tampa traded their whole draft for Jewnnot this year like bone heads but they did make a valid point

Your ?, how many....
look, it's not 111% a blind crapshoot.
Obv earlier picks are deservedly higher rated b'c math says all things =, this maxes best chance to draft best guy.
Obv, human judgment is fallible, not just for Rs, and at all levels of draft there is human error. In some cases [like us grabbing Lias], it is obvious. In other cases {Krav] you see the talent, but mgmt totally screwed up development.

But that does not mean you surrender your obligation to draft well at the altar of vets, who may offer a more likely [tho not guaranteed] expectation of performance based on track record, but which at the same time will always cost more, due to seniority.

The need to field a deep team to win requires amap [as much as possible] having 4 solid lines better than the other guy.
And hard cap reality says not only can't you ignore youth, you must have a larger %age of it utilized so = max suppressing payroll, which = max flexibility for roster decisions

-- control the cap, don't let it control you
-- try to go for youth, but preferably better quality youth and esp foundation level pieces [can't believe some wanna trade KAM].

I would like 1 example of a team that has done what you suggest ?

In varying degrees, there are a number.
The Kraken have surpassed expectations.
The Wild have drafted well to some extent but went in for it and are held back by Suter, etc cap.
Closer to home BOS and BUF have drafted relatively well, traded surgically when opportunity permitted, and are strong competitors.

Sabes in particular took their lumps, drafted well, 2 superior bordering elite Ds w/top picks + other good backliners taken, and surprise, surprise, something clicked last year on top of patience w/Tage-meister and they have an offense.

It's ok to splurge CAREFULLY, INTELLIGENTLY, here and there AS THE SITUATION MAY ALLOW, but not w/typical Ranger MO of desperation.

So for all of the above, yeah, I am correct and our braintrust is wrong.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If I'm patty Kane I'm taking a cheap deal to edmonton for 1 year, looks like he could be playing by new years too me, pump up his stats and cash in the following year. Play with mcdavid and Draisaitl on the pp...watch thoses dolla bills roll in

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Your ?, how many....
look, it's not 111% a blind crapshoot.
Obv earlier picks are deservedly higher rated b'c math says all things =, this maxes best chance to draft best guy.
Obv, human judgment is fallible, not just for Rs, and at all levels of draft there is human error. In some cases [like us grabbing Lias], it is obvious. In other cases {Krav] you see the talent, but mgmt totally screwed up development.

But that does not mean you surrender your obligation to draft well at the altar of vets, who may offer a more likely [tho not guaranteed] expectation of performance based on track record, but which at the same time will always cost more, due to seniority.

The need to field a deep team to win requires amap [as much as possible] having 4 solid lines better than the other guy.
And hard cap reality says not only can't you ignore youth, you must have a larger %age of it utilized so = max suppressing payroll, which = max flexibility for roster decisions

-- control the cap, don't let it control you
-- try to go for youth, but preferably better quality youth and esp foundation level pieces [can't believe some wanna trade KAM].



In varying degrees, there are a number.
The Kraken have surpassed expectations.
The Wild have drafted well to some extent but went in for it and are held back by Suter, etc cap.
Closer to home BOS and BUF have drafted relatively well, traded surgically when opportunity permitted, and are strong competitors.

Sabes in particular took their lumps, drafted well, 2 superior bordering elite Ds w/top picks + other good backliners taken, and surprise, surprise, something clicked last year on top of patience w/Tage-meister and they have an offense.

It's ok to splurge CAREFULLY, INTELLIGENTLY, here and there AS THE SITUATION MAY ALLOW, but not w/typical Ranger MO of desperation.

So for all of the above, yeah, I am correct and our braintrust is wrong.

I think one of the best examples is Chicago. They accepted the lumps and rebuilt, got two high picks, built around those picks (Kane and Toews) and amassed so much talent in the organization that even after winning a Cup they shipped guys out to create cap space so they can retain their young core and then won more Cups.

Not only did they commit fully to their two high picks, the elite winger (Hossa) they added externally was in SUPPORT of their high picks and young core. They didn't ditch building the right way just to cater to Hossa. They added Campbell to be a veteran presence for their young defensemen.

The Rangers did everything ass backwards. They decided to rebuild, awesome, but then after adding Panarin decided to make him the focal point instead of having him be a supplemental piece like Hawks did with Hossa. Then the Rangers proceeded to snuff out their young forwards their two high picks (Laf and Kakko) and instead placate Panarin.

The Rangers did everything literally the wrong way. Backwards of what's been proven to work and win Cups.

It's not too late now to reverse and try to fix and repair the issues and damage, by committing to Laf and Kakko, Fox, Shesterkin, Miller, Schneider, Jones, Othmann, etc. Make them the core. Make everyone else an expendable supplemental piece. If a pricy vet isn't getting the job done you cut bait with him add picks and prospects and continue stacking the system with talent.

It's mind boggling to me that this concept is so lost when every repeat Stanley Cup Champion has done exactly this.

Rangers never learn. They willingly sacrifice dominance and success with instant gratification, whatever feels good at the moment, drawing attention and making a splash. They aren't committed to excellence and winning.

 

[IDvsEGO]

If I'm patty Kane I'm taking a cheap deal to edmonton for 1 year, looks like he could be playing by new years too me, pump up his stats and cash in the following year. Play with mcdavid and Draisaitl on the pp...watch thoses dolla bills roll in

Edmonton? You’re talking about a guy who’s spent his entire life in Chicago and now New York, is going to Edmonton?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The actual bad news is Rangers may be stupid enuf to not listen to me, despite a general track record of being correct, including here.
win now = junkies trying to get another immediate fix
then they wonder why they have no assets life to live a good life

LaF = value kept
LaF = value traded
have to have an open mind about which is better based on potential deals

You are a legend.

That is all.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Don't blame him

 

[I Eat Crow]

Don't blame him

That's what NMC's are for.

Would be no different if the Rangers tried trading Trouba to Edmonton.

 

[Avery16]

That's what NMC's are for.

Would be no different if the Rangers tried trading Trouba to Edmonton.

Krug has an NTC. Armstrong doesn’t give out NMCs. Fat lot of good that does Army here.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Krug has an NTC. Armstrong doesn’t give out NMCs. Fat lot of good that does Army here.

Either way, if Philly is on there, he's well within his right. Oh well. Too bad

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Jordan Staal re-signed 4 years $2.9M AAV. Contract will take him through his age 39 season.

Now if only we could get Tarasenko to sign that type of a deal (yes I know Tarasenko is younger and has better production over the last few years compared to Staal)

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Heres another option. Rather than sign motte to around $1.1 we could always sign brendan lemeiux at league minimum and roll with him if othmann isnt ready. If othmann is ready, you either scratch/waive brendan, if hes not he starts in hfd and lemeiux plays at league minimum until othmann is ready.

Brendan is a great fit for lavi’s system and would bring some additional spark into a lifeless lineup from last year. Also, considering his dad is an agent growing his book, helps get in his good graces. Id take brendan all day at league minimum. People underrated his playing abilities imo.

 

[NYR Viper]

Jordan Staal re-signed 4 years $2.9M AAV. Contract will take him through his age 39 season.

Now if only we could get Tarasenko to sign that type of a deal (yes I know Tarasenko is younger and has better production over the last few years compared to Staal)

They probably can. 4-5 years at $4.5m

 

[RGY]

Good. We can move on from having to talk about trading assets for PLD

 

[NYR Viper]

Good. We can move on from having to talk about trading assets for PLD

Someone explain to me why PLD is worth Iafallo and Vilardi. That’s a steal for Winnipeg.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Someone explain to me why PLD is worth Iafallo and Vilardi. That’s a steal for Winnipeg.

I'll believe they are part of the return once someone other then Pagnotta reports it.

 

[NYR Viper]