Speculation: Roster Building Thread V (2021 Offseason) - Hold them horses, only 45 days left until the draft!

[CLW]

Dundon is a big time cheapo. If I recall correctly he didn’t even want to pay for his scouts cell phones once he came along.

What’s Rod looking at right now? They are letting one of your coaches and your best Dman explore other opportunities. Doesn’t sound like a winning formula.

Doubt it's that simple. Like the Rangers with Zib people are questioning if it's the correct move to tie him up to a long term contract. Maybe Hamilton simply is not a good fit for that group or his ask is outrageous in the flat cap world for example.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Doubt it's that simple. Like the Rangers with Zib people are questioning if it's the correct move to tie him up to a long term contract. Maybe Hamilton simply is not a good fit for that group or his ask is outrageous in the flat cap world for example.

He's their best Dman. Should be a no brainer. This is more a par for the course type of move by Canes ownership.

 

[rangersfansince08]

If we get the GM's nephew for free in a year or two I wonder if that will finally make the league do something about the loophole (to the extent that it can)

I would love it just for the meltdown on these boards

 

[rangersfansince08]

He's their best Dman. Should be a no brainer. This is more a par for the course type of move by Canes ownership.

They f***ed up by trading for Skjei. I wonder if we have a legitimate shot at RBA now.

 

[McRanger92]

They f***ed up by trading for Skjei. I wonder if we have a legitimate shot at RBA now.

I have plenty of issues with Gorton's moves in the past year but dumping Skjei's contract on the Canes for a 1st was an absolute heist. I still dont know why Carolina even made that move.

 

[Savant]

Doubt it's that simple. Like the Rangers with Zib people are questioning if it's the correct move to tie him up to a long term contract. Maybe Hamilton simply is not a good fit for that group or his ask is outrageous in the flat cap world for example.

He's their best Dman. Should be a no brainer. This is more a par for the course type of move by Canes ownership.

Hamilton is not the Canes best Dman. Slavin is.

Canes ownership has gotten a lot better in the last three years which is the scary thing.

Hamilton was previously thought of a good fit, but is he a good fit at 8m+ cap hit? There is a difference. Hamilton was not a good fit in Boston and Calgary, and he is not the kind of guy that plays well everywhere. He probably should not go to a big market.

The Canes also did well without him in 19-20 season so that might figure in as well. They would miss him the most on the power play and maybe they try and get a specialist in there (North Carolina is technically a red state….) at a lower cost.

I think the Hamilton thing is interesting. He is similar to Trouba but it brings to question how much do you pay for a Dman?

Hamilton is a threat, but his defense was badly exposed in the playoffs. Trouba they say isn’t worth that contract because he doesn’t give enough on offense.

Hamilton is still the top available Dman, but he definitely brings risk on a long term commitment

 

[rangersfansince08]

I have plenty of issues with Gorton's moves in the past year but dumping Skjei's contract on the Canes for a 1st was an absolute heist. I still dont know why Carolina even made that move.

Seriously. I figured we'd end up having to trade an asset for some team to take on his contract. But we not only got out of that contract we gained a great asset in return.

 

[Savant]

They f***ed up by trading for Skjei. I wonder if we have a legitimate shot at RBA now.

I have plenty of issues with Gorton's moves in the past year but dumping Skjei's contract on the Canes for a 1st was an absolute heist. I still dont know why Carolina even made that move.

Was never worth the 1st, but Skjei has definitely been better on Carolina than he was here.

 

[bleedblue94]

Chytil is a possession monster with still developing but unreal puck protection and forechecking ability that scores a ton of ES points. what does Dvorak do that's so different other than score way less at ES and win faceoffs? I know he's physical-ish but Chytil is too.

And before you say Arizona can't score, Chytil literally never plays with top 6 players. He has neglibile icetime with almost all of the Rangers top scorers and he gets no PP time. Dvorak gets icetime with every high end player Arizona has ever had.

You cant on one hand pump chytil's tires when he matches up on softer matchups and say his numbers will be better when he plays with better players regularly, and then diminish dvorak based on numbers when matching up against the best lines of other teams when he also plays with weaker players. If you put dvorak and chytil in the same slot of a roster than I think offensively you will have similar production (maybe slightly more for FC), but the difference being we KNOW dvorak is a center and we know he doesnt need to be sheltered from the best of other teams, he can play the complete game to matchup. We are literally still debating on here if chytil is a center or winger long term here. Dvorak for his career also has faceoff percentages of 46.8, 51.4, 55.3, 55.1, and 52.1 which fills another glaring hole we have. Chytil is 36.8, 38.9, 38.4, 42.8.

Also as far as linemates go, I think there is an arguement to be made that being on NYR 3rd line gives you almost as much talent as being in the top 6 of the yotes. NYR has an abnormal amount of talent in its top 6, but even the left overs of laf, kk, kreider, and even at times buch on the 3rd line during the Quinn juggling act would put chytil with top talents. not every team has a panarin to pair with a chytil, so defending his production bc he hasnt playing with a top 5 player in the league is kind of weak.

My point is dvorak can be slotted in to be a poor man's danault but he is younger and on a terrific contract. If you have a way to get him for redundant pieces than you do it. No hesitation at all.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Was never worth the 1st, but Skjei has definitely been better on Carolina than he was here.

What? Excluding 2016 I guess? That's still his beast season both offensively and defensively. His offensive production in Carolina is nothing to write home about and every time I've watched a Canes game I've seen him make the same dumb mistakes he did here that led to him being traded.

 

[CLW]

He's their best Dman. Should be a no brainer. This is more a par for the course type of move by Canes ownership.

How so? They've been progressing nicely the last few years.

 

[bleedblue94]

why is everyone assuming that bc hamilton can talk to other teams that the canes are letting him walk? this could be brilliant by carolina. if they are offering him what they think is legit and fair and he is asking for insane money this is a great way to call his bluff and say go see what options are out there and then weight the 8 year deal we are offering you vs the 7 year deal you can sign as a ufa. this isnt stupid, this is a calculated way to try not to negotiate against yourself. hamilton is probably throwing all sorts of hypothetical numbers and comparable at the canes to work up an offer. here they say no hypotheticals, find out what you're worth to someone else and decide if you want their 7 year or our 8 year. it is potentially a sign of a team that is confident that they are making a good offer to the player and hoping he realizes it...

 

[Raspewtin]

How so? They've been progressing nicely the last few years.

How? They have lost in r3 and r1 to a team worse than them and then went out with a whimper against Tampa. They have more talent now and still really struggle in the playoffs for no good reason.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Dundon? More like dun-dun-dun!

...I suppose I don't have to post EVERYTHING that comes into my mind.

I'd sooner read your brain salad than anything coming from the keyboard of wenevergetagoodcoach/kakkoschmakko

 

[TheBloodyNine]

How so? They've been progressing nicely the last few years.

The owner is cheap. The thing with progressing is unfortunately the further you progress the more money you have to spend. Someone once said (a talking head but I forgot) that most if not all contenders have to deal with salary cap hell. It's the cost of doing business.

 

[Avery16]

The only Graves move dumber than trading him on an ELC for Chris Bigras would be to pay market value to bring him back.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

why is everyone assuming that bc hamilton can talk to other teams that the canes are letting him walk? this could be brilliant by carolina. if they are offering him what they think is legit and fair and he is asking for insane money this is a great way to call his bluff and say go see what options are out there and then weight the 8 year deal we are offering you vs the 7 year deal you can sign as a ufa. this isnt stupid, this is a calculated way to try not to negotiate against yourself. hamilton is probably throwing all sorts of hypothetical numbers and comparable at the canes to work up an offer. here they say no hypotheticals, find out what you're worth to someone else and decide if you want their 7 year or our 8 year. it is potentially a sign of a team that is confident that they are making a good offer to the player and hoping he realizes it...

There will be several teams that aren't the Canes lining up for his services. He is an upper tier free agent, which means he is going to get his money. The flat cap effects the lower and mid tier guys not the upper echelon UFAs. He's gonna get paid for sure by a team that isn't the Canes and then he can leave Carolina which isn't a premier destination for any young millionaire to be living in.

 

[NYSPORTS]

The owner is cheap. The thing with progressing is unfortunately the further you progress the more money you have to spend. Someone once said (a talking head but I forgot) that most if not all contenders have to deal with salary cap hell. It's the cost of doing business.

Covid revenue decline? Think they’ll allow Brad to walk?

 

[bleedblue94]

There will be several teams that aren't the Canes lining up for his services. He is an upper tier free agent, which means he is going to get his money. The flat cap effects the lower and mid tier guys not the upper echelon UFAs. He's gonna get paid for sure by a team that isn't the Canes and then he can leave Carolina which isn't a premier destination for any young millionaire to be living in.

How do you know that? Hamilton his entire career has been a weird egg in locker rooms and never really found a fit/home until he got to the canes. If you know everything you just stated than he and his agent know this things as well. The canes telling them to find out what they can do elsewhere and compare it to what only the canes can offer in the form of an 8 year deal doesnt really hurt them. It's not like they only have limited cap space to spend. If he goes out and says I know I can get 54x7 from two teams and the canes say we will come up to 60x8 and they get a deal than how does it really hurt anyone. They have the 8th year leverage and they know he will be in demand, so what, they still have the hammer of the 8th year to use as leverage. he's turning 28 in a few days, 7 years takes him to 35 after which he isn't getting paid a ton per year anyways, so getting an 8th year at big ish dollars is an X factor only the canes have to use here

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Was never worth the 1st, but Skjei has definitely been better on Carolina than he was here.

It helps when he has 2 others in front of him on the depth chart. Here he was playing on the top pair.

 

[SA16]

You cant on one hand pump chytil's tires when he matches up on softer matchups and say his numbers will be better when he plays with better players regularly, and then diminish dvorak based on numbers when matching up against the best lines of other teams when he also plays with weaker players. If you put dvorak and chytil in the same slot of a roster than I think offensively you will have similar production (maybe slightly more for FC), but the difference being we KNOW dvorak is a center and we know he doesnt need to be sheltered from the best of other teams, he can play the complete game to matchup. We are literally still debating on here if chytil is a center or winger long term here. Dvorak for his career also has faceoff percentages of 46.8, 51.4, 55.3, 55.1, and 52.1 which fills another glaring hole we have. Chytil is 36.8, 38.9, 38.4, 42.8.

Also as far as linemates go, I think there is an arguement to be made that being on NYR 3rd line gives you almost as much talent as being in the top 6 of the yotes. NYR has an abnormal amount of talent in its top 6, but even the left overs of laf, kk, kreider, and even at times buch on the 3rd line during the Quinn juggling act would put chytil with top talents. not every team has a panarin to pair with a chytil, so defending his production bc he hasnt playing with a top 5 player in the league is kind of weak.

My point is dvorak can be slotted in to be a poor man's danault but he is younger and on a terrific contract. If you have a way to get him for redundant pieces than you do it. No hesitation at all.

Nobody in the organization is debating whether Chytil is a center or a wing. It's a random weird fan thing. He's played center his entire career so far.

Not to mention saying Dvorak plays with lesser players is a blatant falsehood. He had 200 mins each this year with Keller/Kessel. Last year his two most common linemates were Hall and Garland. The year before his most common linemate was Keller.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Nobody in the organization is debating whether Chytil is a center or a wing. It's a random weird fan thing. He's played center his entire career so far.

*His entire NHL career

 

[SA16]

*His entire NHL career

Yes that is how things work. We are talking about the NHL. When you say "How many goals did Gretzky score in his career?" the answer that will be given is 894. Not 894 + WHA goals + junior goals etc. Chytil has played 186 games as a Ranger. Almost (but not all) entirely center.

 

[bleedblue94]

Nobody in the organization is debating whether Chytil is a center or a wing. It's a random weird fan thing. He's played center his entire career so far.

Not to mention saying Dvorak plays with lesser players is a blatant falsehood. He had 200 mins each this year with Keller/Kessel. Last year his two most common linemates were Hall and Garland. The year before his most common linemate was Keller.

See there is the thing, I dont think Keller and Kessel are very good, and Garland of last year was not the Garland of this year, also Hall until being traded to the Bruins has been very meh since his big season in NJ. Everything stated needs context...

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yes that is how things work. We are talking about the NHL. When you say "How many goals did Gretzky score in his career?" the answer that will be given is 892. Not 892 + WHA goals + junior goals etc.

Some players switch position when they get to the NHL. Hayes and Aho played on the wing as well before they got to the NHL. But others moved from center to wing or switched a year or 2 into their NHL career.

Not saying I disagree with you but some players go their entire career playing the same position. Chytil just isn't one of them, which leads to some people feeling he'd be better suited on the wing. It's not a crazy assumption.