Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXVII

[Shesterkybomb]

My prediction....
Strome takes a discount and stays
Copp takes the money somewhere else
Motte stays
Vatrano stays
Blais stays
Georgiev gets moved
Lundkvist gets moved next season.

 

[Kravtsov420]

I can’t believe we’re going to even think about resigning strome.

 

[JimmyG89]

It's funny because it seems like we coddle our forward development a lot more than our defense.

Fox and Lindgren played well for a bit together their rookie seasons and all of a sudden they were the second pairing.

Miller get thrown into top 4 minutes immediately as a 20 year old who is extremely raw.

Girardi, McDonagh, Skjei were all thrust right into top 4 roles.

And yet only now are Kakko and Laf going to be considered "veterans" in the eyes of the coach.

Odd choices. Maybe has to do with our existing depth.

The thing with this was that Quinn never trusted either in bigger roles. He'd rather Colin Blackwell or Jesper Fast play with Panarin and Strome. This year with Gallant it was Dryden Hunt. Maybe that is in part Panarin and Strome's fault and not the coach. Beginning of the season it looked like both of them were trying to do something all by themselves and Kakko was just with them. Once they finally figured out Kakko could do something, he began to produce until he got hurt and demoted off the line.

With the defense, you can demote guys to lower pairs, but they either play or you're running with 5 on the back end. If they are a scratch, or aren't playing enough, they get demoted and play top minutes in the AHL. Forwards can be shuffled to the 4th line. If you are trailing, you can shorten the bench, so there is a lot of wiggle room for coaches to be harder on forwards than defense. If the defense isn't up to snuff, you're sitting or sent down. If a forward is struggling, you can demote them, lessen the minutes, and still get them out there for games.

Kakko should have been getting big minutes in 2019 and 2020. Lafreniere should also have been getting big minutes in 2020. There was no reason to play plugs on the 2nd line. You had two top tier pieces that need to play in order to get better. Quinn was focused on winning to keep his job as opposed to doing what he was brought in and to develop the young forwards coming through the system. It's how you end up with Fast or Blackwell on the 2nd line instead of putting your #1 or #2 overall picks with elite players. It's why Dolan cleaned house. People were too worried about their jobs instead of doing what was needed to progress the team. Had Quinn just let Lafreniere and Kakko play, maybe their breakout isn't in May this year, but in January, because they got the reps, and your lines look different come playoff time. Your needs become different too.

 

[Jettany]

My prediction....
Strome takes a discount and stays
Copp takes the money somewhere else
Motte stays
Vatrano stays
Blais stays
Georgiev gets moved
Lundkvist gets moved next season.

Georgiev gets moved? I thought he was unrestricted?

 

[EdJovanovski]

Panarin - Strome - Kravtsov

 

[duhmetreE]

Panarin - Strome - Kravtsov

That’s horrible

 

[McRanger92]

Kreider-Zibanejad-Lafreniere
Panarin-Copp-Kakko
Blais-Chytil-Kravtsov
Motte-Goodrow-Reaves
Hunt/Brodzinski

Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Jones-Schneider
Braun

Igor
Cheap backup

Thats a Cup contending team and its doable under the cap. Trivigno/Othmann/Cuylle/Lundkvist/Robertson/Rydahl/Berard could all factor in at different points in the season as well. The best move might just be to run it back.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Kreider-Zibanejad-Lafreniere
Panarin-Copp-Kakko
Blais-Chytil-Kravtsov
Motte-Goodrow-Reaves
Hunt/Brodzinski

Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Jones-Schneider
Braun

Igor
Cheap backup

Thats a Cup contending team and its doable under the cap. Trivigno/Othmann/Cuylle/Lundkvist/Robertson/Rydahl/Berard could all factor in at different points in the season as well. The best move might just be to run it back.

If Lafreniere and Kakko take a step forward, which I think Laf has a better chance of doing with how he looked in the playoffs then yeah it is a contender, if not then we are looking at probably a similar outcome to this season. Reaves shouldn't be in the lineup either.

 

[duhmetreE]

Zibs is our 1C. It’s obvious he needs play drivers on his line. Kreider used to be a play driver… I have no clue what has happened to him. Is he trying to play a more skill games instead of a simple north south meat and potato game?

The Zibs line has horrendous metrics all Playoffs. He’s had poor metrics fit the past few seasons. We’re talking 5v5.

Pre Covid Panarin could drive a line. Laffy is looking like a player that can drive a line. Both teams in the cup finals have a stacked top line typically.

Whatever the solution, Zibs needs some support. Whether it’s Panarin or Laffy…. Or both.

I remember the Kreider Zibs MZA being strong before the moping. If you’re Keeping the best friends together, they need a playmaker. Take a pick…. But I would break them up.

Panarin Zibs Laffy
Kreider Copp Kakko

That’s my top6. If you want to give Chytil a chance, but it makes that line much weaker defensively. That line should be able to get the puck deep and dominate the boards

 

[McRanger92]

If Lafreniere and Kakko take a step forward, which I think Laf has a better chance of doing with how he looked in the playoffs then yeah it is a contender, if not then we are looking at probably a similar outcome to this season. Reaves shouldn't be in the lineup either.

A similar outcome to this season with 2 extra wins means we're paying for the Cup, so i would sign up for that in a heartbeat. I think the team will take lessons from this year and it will help them get over the hump next year. An experienced team wouldve beaten PIT in less than 7 and probably been able to put away Tampa when they had the chance

 

[McRanger92]

Zibs is our 1C. It’s obvious he needs play drivers on his line. Kreider used to be a play driver… I have no clue what has happened to him. Is he trying to play a more skill games instead of a simple north south meat and potato game?

The Zibs line has horrendous metrics all Playoffs. He’s had poor metrics fit the past few seasons. We’re talking 5v5.

Pre Covid Panarin could drive a line. Laffy is looking like a player that can drive a line. Both teams in the cup finals have a stacked top line typically.

Whatever the solution, Zibs needs some support. Whether it’s Panarin or Laffy…. Or both.

I remember the Kreider Zibs MZA being strong before the moping. If you’re Keeping the best friends together, they need a playmaker. Take a pick…. But I would break them up.

Panarin Zibs Laffy
Kreider Copp Kakko

That’s my top6. If you want to give Chytil a chance, but it makes that line much weaker defensively. That line should be able to get the puck deep and dominate the boards

Lafreniere is the guy to play with Panarin on RW because he can actually finish on the chances Panarin will feed him. Kakko is a better fit with Kreider & Mika because he can hold the puck and is a good passer

 

[NikC]

Report: Rangers Agree to One Year Contract with Gustav Rydahl

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Georgiev gets moved? I thought he was unrestricted?

Rfa but they wont be making a quality offer.

 

[Jettany]

Rfa but they wont be making a quality offer.

So some sort of 3-5 pick or not qualified. Got it.

 

[Ola]

Dach reminds me a lot of Chytil stylistically, maybe I’m off a bit?

Dach is by today’s standards a very poor skater but really good with the puck down low. I would try to move him to the wing, but don’t think he compliments Mika well.

 

[B17 Apricots]

The thing with this was that Quinn never trusted either in bigger roles. He'd rather Colin Blackwell or Jesper Fast play with Panarin and Strome. This year with Gallant it was Dryden Hunt. Maybe that is in part Panarin and Strome's fault and not the coach. Beginning of the season it looked like both of them were trying to do something all by themselves and Kakko was just with them. Once they finally figured out Kakko could do something, he began to produce until he got hurt and demoted off the line.

With the defense, you can demote guys to lower pairs, but they either play or you're running with 5 on the back end. If they are a scratch, or aren't playing enough, they get demoted and play top minutes in the AHL. Forwards can be shuffled to the 4th line. If you are trailing, you can shorten the bench, so there is a lot of wiggle room for coaches to be harder on forwards than defense. If the defense isn't up to snuff, you're sitting or sent down. If a forward is struggling, you can demote them, lessen the minutes, and still get them out there for games.

Kakko should have been getting big minutes in 2019 and 2020. Lafreniere should also have been getting big minutes in 2020. There was no reason to play plugs on the 2nd line. You had two top tier pieces that need to play in order to get better. Quinn was focused on winning to keep his job as opposed to doing what he was brought in and to develop the young forwards coming through the system. It's how you end up with Fast or Blackwell on the 2nd line instead of putting your #1 or #2 overall picks with elite players. It's why Dolan cleaned house. People were too worried about their jobs instead of doing what was needed to progress the team. Had Quinn just let Lafreniere and Kakko play, maybe their breakout isn't in May this year, but in January, because they got the reps, and your lines look different come playoff time. Your needs become different too.

This can't be understated enough and why a large portion of people had been talking about this for multiple seasons now. Even going back to Andersson.. say what you want about him, whether things wouldve been different or not.. we took our 7th OA pick and stapled him to the 4th line for 2 years, 1 with Brendan Smith and Haley. That's not how your going to develop offensive players. Fast forward a few years and people are starting to see the result of how we're choosing to develop our prospects. Andersson, Howden, Chytil, Kravtsov, Kakko, Lafreniere...

When we say Kakko was part of the very top tier of Finns to come out recently or Lafreniere was part of the best kids to come out of Juniors recently, its not to blow smoke up people's ass and go wow look how good they were a few years ago. It's that these are incredibly high end prospects... It's that after multiple years, it's not that our drafting sucks or that every single forward prospect just magically sucks, it's the reality of how we've chosen to develop these players.

Barkov spent his first 2 seasons as a 30 point player playing 17 minutes a night, Rantanen put up 38 points in his first season playing 18 minutes a game, Hughes put up 20 points in his first season playing 16 minutes, 45 point pace the next year playing 19 minutes a game! You can go on and on and on... these are prospects that are being stapled in the top 6 to understand the role and deal with the growing pains. Dont get me wrong theres plenty of guys who get a top role right away and kill it, there's guys who kill it in a smaller role...

The point is these rebuilding years should've been about getting these young guys minutes. Give them 17 minutes a game, let them get a 40 point season under their belt, they might look like shit, deal with the growing pains... those things were supposed to be done during the rebuild. Now we're in a position where we're looking to contend but we never really put those guys in big roles and never really let them work that stuff out. It's simply a fact that we gave some of the lowest usage in history to our top picks. At some point you have to give the keys over and accept that they may struggle and may take time to acclimate to a larger role.

 

[Ola]

Zibs is our 1C. It’s obvious he needs play drivers on his line. Kreider used to be a play driver… I have no clue what has happened to him. Is he trying to play a more skill games instead of a simple north south meat and potato game?

The Zibs line has horrendous metrics all Playoffs. He’s had poor metrics fit the past few seasons. We’re talking 5v5.

Pre Covid Panarin could drive a line. Laffy is looking like a player that can drive a line. Both teams in the cup finals have a stacked top line typically.

Whatever the solution, Zibs needs some support. Whether it’s Panarin or Laffy…. Or both.

I remember the Kreider Zibs MZA being strong before the moping. If you’re Keeping the best friends together, they need a playmaker. Take a pick…. But I would break them up.

Panarin Zibs Laffy
Kreider Copp Kakko

That’s my top6. If you want to give Chytil a chance, but it makes that line much weaker defensively. That line should be able to get the puck deep and dominate the boards

It’s 100% an opponent thing. For the last 3 years, Kreider-Mika have struggled mightly against the toughest opponents.

I’ve said this for years and is not one bit surprised about Kreider’s and Mika’s production 5 on 5 in these POs. A big heavy line will struggle mightly with consistently creating prolonged pressure against a team built like Tampa. That is why they swept Florida with ease, that is why they shot down Ziba and Kreider with ease.

Who matches up well against a team like Tampa? It’s lines that are built like their lines. Aho’s line. Barzal’s line. Dandenault’s line in Montreal.

 

[Ola]

This can't be understated enough and why a large portion of people had been talking about this for multiple seasons now. Even going back to Andersson.. say what you want about him, whether things wouldve been different or not.. we took our 7th OA pick and stapled him to the 4th line for 2 years, 1 with Brendan Smith and Haley. That's not how your going to develop offensive players. Fast forward a few years and people are starting to see the result of how we're choosing to develop our prospects. Andersson, Howden, Chytil, Kravtsov, Kakko, Lafreniere...

When we say Kakko was part of the very top tier of Finns to come out recently or Lafreniere was part of the best kids to come out of Juniors recently, its not to blow smoke up people's ass and go wow look how good they were a few years ago. It's that these are incredibly high end prospects... It's that after multiple years, it's not that our drafting sucks or that every single forward prospect just magically sucks, it's the reality of how we've chosen to develop these players.

Barkov spent his first 2 seasons as a 30 point player playing 17 minutes a night, Rantanen put up 38 points in his first season playing 18 minutes a game, Hughes put up 20 points in his first season playing 16 minutes, 45 point pace the next year playing 19 minutes a game! You can go on and on and on... these are prospects that are being stapled in the top 6 to understand the role and deal with the growing pains. Dont get me wrong theres plenty of guys who get a top role right away and kill it, there's guys who kill it in a smaller role...

The point is these rebuilding years should've been about getting these young guys minutes. Give them 17 minutes a game, let them get a 40 point season under their belt, they might look like shit, deal with the growing pains... those things were supposed to be done during the rebuild. Now we're in a position where we're looking to contend but we never really put those guys in big roles and never really let them work that stuff out. It's simply a fact that we gave some of the lowest usage in history to our top picks. At some point you have to give the keys over and accept that they may struggle and may take time to acclimate to a larger role.

Yeah, and this is definitely a result of having an organization who just didn’t have a sufficient amount of progressive knowledgeable experienced hockey people on it.

You don’t get things for free in this league by just participating. If you develop a kid poorly, the kid will develop poorly. We made very many really poor decisions, and it’s not good that they weren’t questioned more along the way.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I personally think a lot of people talk about developing players yet have never been involved in that process and have no idea that they have no idea what they are talking about. You can develop players who want to put the time in to be better, thats why Lafreniere is currently passing Kakko in development and will likely continue to do so. The big knock on Kakko is his speed, yet it hasn't gotten any better, its the main thing holding him back and imo he showed up last year in the exact wrong shape for being faster. Its almost as if he went home and didn't listen to a trainer at all or had no plan on creating speed and instead bulked up. So, a wasted year for him, he doesn't have speed to go around anyone, he's a scorer who can't break down a dman. Lafreniere recognizes already he needs to be faster, and i guarantee next year he will be, will Kakko? That's the problem with blaming development on the organization, the trainers can recommed stuff up the wazoo but the player has to listen.

 

[Ola]

Lafreniere is the guy to play with Panarin on RW because he can actually finish on the chances Panarin will feed him. Kakko is a better fit with Kreider & Mika because he can hold the puck and is a good passer

Hockey is a complex sports that requires a very wide range of abilities from a player.

I also think it’s important that we acknowledge just how important some more peripheral abilities are. Like, if Ovechkin bombs in 40 goals on the PP we won’t put a Trouba in the same spot and expect him to get 40. Why? Obviously, his shot, ability to get it of, instincts, aren’t as good as AO,m. Right?

So what do we need? Like we need to have lines that can match up against players that can cover a ton of ice, be like magnets on the puck all over the ice despite the play turning back and forth, that work super hard and has a real winning instinct when getting into puck battles. Think like a Brad Marchand.

I 100% agree with you that Laf has potential to become a player that can compete with anyone. But we need more.

And especially at center ice. You need size on the wing, but you are screwed if you don’t have speed at center ice. Like one of — the most successful lines in the POs the last three years — centered around Gallagher and Dandenault. Speedy, tenicity and work ethic.

 

[Ola]

Who is this Gustav Rydahl. After 2 extremely successful seasons in SHL would have to think that at 27 years old Rangers gave him some assurance of a roster spot or atleast a strong chance at one. What is he? Potential piece on 3rd line that can shutdown & produce offense, or merely a 4th line cog that can be an improvement over what we saw this season. Either way - hopefully he's part of a line that doesn't just take up minutes, but meaningfully produces offensively or defensively in them. Would go a long way to better 5 on 5 play and advanced stats

But just to be clear, he didn’t have extremely successful seasons in the SHL in the sense that he was a dominating player in any way. Like he was ‘the best’ depth grinder in the SHL who was elevated to a bigger role.

 

[Ola]

The answer to our problems isnt in the system - isn’t on the roster - wasn’t with us this year …

We need an overhaul at center …

And we need another D man

Zac Jones isn’t an answer nor is Copp ….

Think Scheifle … Trocheck ….

JMHO, but I am fairly certain that if we got like Schleife for free and he didn’t count against the cap — he still wouldn’t be a difference maker for us.

Watch the Florida-Tampa series again. Take out Bennet and put in Schleife — it’s so hard to see that it would have made a difference.

Just as Tampa had no issues handling Ziba. They really had no issues handling him. Tampa wouldn’t have any issues handling Schleife either.

A duo of like Dandenault-Arvidsson/Gallagher OTOH — they would have made a tremendous difference taking the toughest match-ups while Ziba could get easier shifts.

 

[CLW]

louder for the people in the back.

Fortunately, I think this is a LOCK to happen.

Ideally...

Laf slides back to RW with Kreider and Zib

We trade for a RW to play with Copp and Panarin (if it's Patrick Kane, I will give up.)

Stastny takes that 3C role and plays with Krav and someone else

The 4th line is populated by players who are not Rooney and Reaves.

So no spot for Chytil?

 

[Trxjw]

Strome has been an excellent transition player for us but it's time to move on. He deserves a decent pay day and that's not something we should be giving him. If he was a more complete player you could make the argument for him staying and being the guy who transitions to 3C but he's not that guy. That guy is Copp.

I also don't think the Rangers are going to plug Blais in on the 4th line with Motte and Goodrow. That's like $7.5m tied up in your 4th line and ~$9m when you include Reaves (who isn't going anywhere) in that group. That's just not something a cap strapped team can do.

 

[nyaz11]

JMHO, but I am fairly certain that if we got like Schleife for free and he didn’t count against the cap — he still wouldn’t be a difference maker for us.

Watch the Florida-Tampa series again. Take out Bennet and put in Schleife — it’s so hard to see that it would have made a difference.

Just as Tampa had no issues handling Ziba. They really had no issues handling him. Tampa wouldn’t have any issues handling Schleife either.

A duo of like Dandenault-Arvidsson/Gallagher OTOH — they would have made a tremendous difference taking the toughest match-ups while Ziba could get easier shifts.

Stop it.. this is just silly. Scheifele is an elite offensive player. Tampa had 1 shutdown line -- if all their attention is on Zibanejad - Scheifele would have a better matchup.

Sam Bennett, while a very good 2-way player is closer to Goodrow than he is to Scheifele.