Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXIV

[TheBloodyNine]

Again, I’ll take my chances in the playoffs with those guys. Try enjoying the Rangers first successful season in 5 years rather than worrying about what the analytics or “anonymous league executives” say. You’ll be happier for it

Nah, rather live in reality. Didn't need the league executives to tell me what I've been saying this whole year already. Success in the playoffs is all that matters and the only thing this team is primed for a is first round exit with the way they play.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Yes, he’s looked dangerous. It’s just no where near as consistent as he was.

And that's a huge problem.

 

[mas0764]

Again, I’ll take my chances in the playoffs with those guys.

So will all of us, just not those guys plus expensive rentals that walk in four months and harm our future.

...

The thing about Panarin is, he's clearly not playing as well right now as his last two seasons here.

But his last two seasons he was basically playing like an MVP. He was up there with Draisaitl, McDavid, and Ovechkin as one of the most dangerous 4-5 forwards in all of hockey.

So some context is needed. I think it's fair to say he's not playing as well but also say he's not really the problem.

It is noticeable though. He gets in and turns the puck over too much.

I'm no expert but it seems the whole team is doing it far too often. It's the same problem Kakko and Lafreniere have. They can't keep the puck in the offensive zone enough.

At the same time, it's a flashing warning sign to those thinking of making expensive deadline purchases, that the idea Panarin is going to gonna carry the team to Cup contention this year might be flawed.

 

[McRanger92]

So now if we bring up some concerning trends regarding a players on-ice results, that is considered turning on them? Give me a break. I love Panarin but the fact of the matter is he hasn't been the same 5v5 contributor and play driver he was just in 2019-20, and even last season. Hopefully it's not permanent and he can turn it around, but that's what it is.

I know this is directed at me, but im not the one bringing up trading him or baselessly claiming he’s a problem in the locker room.

 

[McRanger92]

So will all of us, just not those guys plus expensive rentals that walk in four months and harm our future.

...

The thing about Panarin is, he's clearly not playing as well right now as his last two seasons here.

But his last two seasons he was basically playing like an MVP. He was up there with Draisaitl, McDavid, and Ovechkin as one of the most dangerous 4-5 forwards in all of hockey.

So some context is needed. I think it's fair to say he's not playing as well but also say he's not really the problem.

It is noticeable though. He gets in and turns the puck over too much.

I'm no expert but it seems the whole team is doing it far too often. It's the same problem Kakko and Lafreniere have. They can't keep the puck in the offensive zone enough.

At the same time, it's a flashing warning sign to those thinking of making expensive deadline purchases, that the idea Panarin is going to gonna carry the team to Cup contention this year might be flawed.

I never said he’d carry them to a Cup, but I’m willing to admit that he definitely tries to do to much at times this year and it would help everyone if he shot the puck more consistently. But he’s very very far from being an issue on this team

 

[duhmetreE]

And that's a huge problem.

It is. he had an absolute abysmal start to the year.

he 'adjusted' and said the right things. That he 'needed to move his feet'. He improved. Now he's headed back to the beginning of the season minus a few spurts and/or against former teams.

 

[Fitzy]

Panarin had a career year his first season here so him turning back into a 90 point player shouldn't be a huge surprise. Same with Zibanejad going back to being a 75 point centre.

One thing that sticks out about all the shot metrics if you look around is that Shesterkin has a .930 save percentage when a man down. For comparison- Lundqvist in his Vezina season saved only .905 on the PK.

Not sure the Rangers are as bad on paper as they've been in metrics, or as good on paper as they've been in the standings. There's a ways to go still, which is why some of us were a little concerned whether this veteran core would still be in their prime when this team was fully developed.

You hope Kreider, Panarin, Zib age gracefully.

 

[mas0764]

Paywall. Got Cliff Notes?

Yeah, the Cliff notes are that there are no stats and no experts who think we are really contenders, only some of the people on this forum.

Which is shocking, I know.

 

[Anthony5967]

I guess I shouldn’t be shocked that half the board has turned on Panarin after such a terrible first half of the season. Oh wait we’re a guaranteed playoff team looking the make additions for the stretch run? Could’ve fooled me!

I love the talk and the opinions but it always feels like doomsday on here. Not healthy. The team has a franchise goalie, arguably the best one in hockey, a franchise 1D, arguably the best in hockey, an elite two-way C Thats 28, two elite wingers, and two high draft picks that are 20 with elite upside that just need more ice time, more consistency and more opportunity before they take off at 23-24, yet you’d think we are icing a beer league team.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I know this is directed at me, but im not the one bringing up trading him or baselessly claiming he’s a problem in the locker room.

Neither are the vast majority of people who have pointed out that he hasn't been the same player this season. But your post seemed like it was directed at those people.

 

[CLW]

• Based on style and tactics the Rangers are doing as expected, this is not taking talent level into account.

This point stood out to me. The Rangers have the mission to make the playoffs this year, and are prepared to sacrifice a lot of their 5v5 play to eke out the points to get there. The Rangers have the talent to be better, with a better system, but have decided to take the 'safe' approach. The Rangers are ok allowing shots from the outside, but don't want to allow odd man rushes against so they don't try to attack too furiously (i.e shitty 5v5 play etc).

I think Gallant (and the kids) suffer with this approach, but as GG also says "winning is the priority". I'm not a fan of this approach, but then again I don't have Dolan breathing down my neck.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Panarin had a career year his first season here so him turning back into a 90 point player shouldn't be a huge surprise. Same with Zibanejad going back to being a 75 point centre.

One thing that sticks out about all the shot metrics if you look around is that Shesterkin has a .930 save percentage when a man down. For comparison- Lundqvist in his Vezina season saved only .905 on the PK.

Not sure the Rangers are as bad on paper as they've been in metrics, or as good on paper as they've been in the standings. There's a ways to go still, which is why some of us were a little concerned whether this veteran core would still be in their prime when this team was fully developed.

You hope Kreider, Panarin, Zib age gracefully.

I think Panarin will, the other two are hard to say.

Panarin will because his game is very cerebral, he's like a forward version of Adam Fox. He also came from very humble beginnings and I think he appreciates where he is in life more than most NHL players. It had to require an insane amount of determination to get where he got when all the odds were stacked against him.

Kreider is a tricky one because everyone thought he'd age like cheese. Big, strong, speedster who relies on physical tools. But he's also a fitness/health freak so he may be able to keep that up. Having a career year at 30 makes it look that way.

Zibanejad is the one I think who will age the least gracefully. Between all the injuries, the inconsistency, and his overall demeanour and how he doesn't seem to care as much about hockey as the others.

 

[mas0764]

• Based on style and tactics the Rangers are doing as expected, this is not taking talent level into account.

This point stood out to me. The Rangers have the mission to make the playoffs this year, and are prepared to sacrifice a lot of their 5v5 play to eke out the points to get there. The Rangers have the talent to be better, with a better system, but have decided to take the 'safe' approach. The Rangers are ok allowing shots from the outside, but don't want to allow odd man rushes against so they don't try to attack too furiously (i.e shitty 5v5 play etc).

I think Gallant (and the kids) suffer with this approach, but as GG also says "winning is the priority". I'm not a fan of this approach, but then again I don't have Dolan breathing down my neck.

If playing safe is causing the stagnation then it's unforgivable.

That being said how can they be playing safe when they allow such high danger chances again and again per the stats?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I love the talk and the opinions but it always feels like doomsday on here. Not healthy. The team has a franchise goalie, arguably the best one in hockey, a franchise 1D, arguably the best in hockey, an elite two-way C Thats 28, two elite wingers, and two high draft picks that are 20 with elite upside that just need more ice time, more consistency and more opportunity before they take off at 23-24, yet you’d think we are icing a beer league team.

They played like a beer league team against the Kraken the other night. Doesn't mean shit to have all those players if they don't play the right way.

 

[mas0764]

I think Panarin will, the other two are hard to say.

Panarin will because his game is very cerebral, he's like a forward version of Adam Fox. He also came from very humble beginnings and I think he appreciates where he is in life more than most NHL players. It had to require an insane amount of determination to get where he got when all the odds were stacked against him.

Kreider is a tricky one because everyone thought he'd age like cheese. Big, strong, speedster who relies on physical tools. But he's also a fitness/health freak so he may be able to keep that up. Having a career year at 30 makes it look that way.

Zibanejad is the one I think who will age the least gracefully. Between all the injuries, the inconsistency, and his overall demeanour and how he doesn't seem to care as much about hockey as the others.

Kreider is not one I would have kept and if I could go back and undue it I still would, cause I'd have Robertson and another first instead; and even if it made me miss on Lafreniere I'd have Lundell, so I'm ok with all of that.

But I will say his evolution into Johan Franzen potentially extends his shelf life a bit.

 

[CLW]

If playing safe is causing the stagnation then it's unforgivable.

That being said how can they be playing safe when they allow such high danger chances again and again per the stats?

They are seen as high danger chances because they are shots from the slot, but those shots are against a Shesty who is tracking the puck and in position. Odd man rushes are trickier because they lead to more random movement for the goalie and statistically a huge percent of goals are scored from them.

Basically it's the Hank approach again, as Machinehead was talking about.

 

[duhmetreE]

If playing safe is causing the stagnation then it's unforgivable.

That being said how can they be playing safe when they allow such high danger chances again and again per the stats?

because we do a terrible job defending the ice in front of Shesterkin. We're playing safe by not activating the defensemen as often and backing up to the dots. It's playing not to lose

Considering our goalie is the best in the world, especially at breakaways/odd man rushes, we should be way more aggressive.

All top teams have a 4-5 man attack. We dump it in and are lucky if 1 player shows up on the TV screen. It's suppose to come in waves. f1 goes to the puck. f2 goes to support. f3 lingers and reads

 

[Blais to Win]

Zibanejad is the one I think who will age the least gracefully. Between all the injuries, the inconsistency, and his overall demeanour and how he doesn't seem to care as much about hockey as the others.

Inconsistent Zibanejad is over point per game. He has been held scoreless 14 games and the NYR lost 5 of those.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

because we do a terrible job defending the ice in front of Shesterkin. We're playing safe by not activating the defensemen as often and backing up to the dots. It's playing not to lose

Considering our goalie is the best in the world, especially at breakaways/odd man rushes, we should be way more aggressive.

All top teams have a 4-5 man attack. We dump it in and are lucky if 1 player shows up on the TV screen. It's suppose to come in waves. f1 goes to the puck. f2 goes to support. f3 lingers and reads

The dump and then lose the puck completely strategy this team employs is beyond infruiating.

 

[CLW]

Inconsistent Zibanejad is over point per game. He has been held scoreless 14 games and the NYR lost 5 of those.

Zib was poor for two months but still picked up a point every game from the PP. Thankfully he is back on track again now but to just point at points is not telling the whole story, same with Panarin.

 

[McRanger92]

I love the talk and the opinions but it always feels like doomsday on here. Not healthy. The team has a franchise goalie, arguably the best one in hockey, a franchise 1D, arguably the best in hockey, an elite two-way C Thats 28, two elite wingers, and two high draft picks that are 20 with elite upside that just need more ice time, more consistency and more opportunity before they take off at 23-24, yet you’d think we are icing a beer league team.

Analytics have taken the enjoyment out of the game, which is a shame because they are very useful. Everyone is an expert now, and we aren’t allowed to enjoy wins or players if the charts don’t look good. The team has some major flaws right now (and thankfully they know it) but I didn’t need the advanced metrics to tell me that.

 

[MrAlmost]

I mentioned it a while back and wasn't taken seriously, but the Rangers should consider Eric Staal. Nothing but cap space and is the type of attitude that holds players accountable. Of course, I still support acquiring lehkonen which gives you a 3rd line of Lehkonen-Staal-Goodrow. Could be a shrewd move if we are unwilling to part with certain players and prospects.

 

[bobbop]

Waiting to see what's gonna be thrown around here during the pause

This thread will be crazy over the next two weeks. Time to deal!

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Its obvious the Rangers arent a great team or even a top 5 cup contender, even though their record on paper may suggest otherwise.

The way I look at it is they have a few very valuable players that could take any team over the hump with a single game breaking play or stop, and enough on the roster to do some damage in the playoffs - regardless of the analytics. They've also shown a knack for finding ways to win with different players contributing, which is what great teams do.

The power rankings and contender debates are just that to me - debates. The analytics, the output. It can all be scrutinized and rightly so. This isnt a traditional "great" team.

We watched MTL get 3 wins away from a Cup, with a majority of the same roster from last year (minus a few very key players). They are now wallowing in the sludge at the bottom of the barrel. When it gets to the dance anything can happen. Just getting there is the important thing and there would need to be a collapse of epic proportions for that not to happen.

I am enjoying this team and all of its warts, because they are winning - a lot. Who knows. Maybe they can go on a run, but its hard for me to waste my time trying to examine it in too much detail. This appears to be a team that doesn't follow the traditional roster form and tell-tale analytics one would expect from a true contender.

So im kinda just along for the ride while understanding that they are probably either ahead of schedule in their rebuild or everything is just breaking right with incredible goaltending, play from Fox and good coaching.

 

[bobbop]

I mentioned it a while back and wasn't taken seriously, but the Rangers should consider Eric Staal. Nothing but cap space and is the type of attitude that holds players accountable. Of course, I still support acquiring lehkonen which gives you a 3rd line of Lehkonen-Staal-Goodrow. Could be a shrewd move if we are unwilling to part with certain players and prospects.

Stall will be heavily scouted at the Olympics. So will other teams. It’s very possible 1-2 players may play themselves into the NHL.