Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIII

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Either you send Buch, TDA, Pionk and co to the left down the same aisle as Spooner, Etem and co or you send them to the right and lock them up long term.

If you can’t make that call — I am sorry you shouldn’t be a NHL GM. We know these guys.
 
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I understand that the CBA can be a bit complicated and everyone posting here aren’t brain surgeons, it’s not easy for someone like Slats and Gorton of course made a — tremendous — blunder not locking up Hayes and hence being able to trade him in a Stepan like deal, but everyone should have learned this by now.

A GM must be able to make a call on his players. Spooner you take left, Hayes you take right, Etem and Clendenning you take left, Kreider and McD you take right — and so forth. It’s not rocket science.

I'm not sure that the trading component was an option because of the NMC. Whether Hayes signed before the season or during, the NMC was going to be there. The dollars would've been different, maybe the years. But there is no way his agent was going to let him forsake UFA, knowing what the Rangers may or may not be doing, and after looking at some of the young potential centers the Rangers had in the system.

Hayes and his agent have always been strategic about navigating the system, and haven't been afraid to choose their destiny via UFA in the past. I would be absolutely stunned if they ever would've signed without a movement clause.
 
wouldn't the better option for the Rangers be for Dallas to miss the playoffs? The possibility for them to win (2) rounds this year is slim to none. Most likely they will be playing Winnipeg and then Nashville/STL. The odds of them beating both of those teams is not good. If they miss the playoffs, that 2nd rounder will be much better
 
I just read Larry's latest and he makes some good points about Kreider.

I would guess that the last 12 or so games and how he plays will play a part in what the team does with him.

If the Rangers don't know what they want to do with Kreider after having him in the organization since 2009 and on their team since 2012, then there is a huge problem.

Leopards don't change their spots.

This stuff should not be so complicated.
 
Before the player gets arbitration rights the player more or less has zero leverage. After the player gets arbitration rights he can get to UFA in a few years.

The best managed franchises would never even dream about presenting a 2-3 year contract to a player that does not have arbitration rights. They will get their QO, if they don’t sign that they will have to sign the long term deal presented to them by their team or leave the NHL for several years until they become UFAs.

And like — why would a NHL franchise do it any other way with a solid young homegrown kid? It’s the only way that makes sense.

Sather never got this. Brooks went on and on and on about Winnipeg and Nashville and co ‘destroying the cap’ by locking up Schleife, Ehlers, Wheeler and co to great long term deals, with some 110% delusional motivation of how it destroyed comparable contracts in the arbitration process.

With a short contract you have an opportunity to get a raise often, with a long contract you have the opportunity to get a raise few times. However around this franchise there is a notion deeply established that if you have to play well for a long time to earn the right to get very few raises (ie a pony contract). It’s just totally backwards and have cost us soooo much over the years.

Imagine if Slats/Gorts locked up all the guys we traded recently as low value rentals, we would have been able to get a such better return for them OMG.


Some players are not going to take it that route. I mean if you offer them enough maybe they do but then you are risking that those players eventually match their cap hits.

Buch, ADA could be very good players, or maybe they turn out not to be, yet it's a good thing they did not sign Del Zotto off his entry level to some 6M cap hit deal for 6-7 years.

Stepan at the time they should have, I was advocating that they did, yet they had already spent their cap inefficiently on other stuff prior.

Skjei I too would have gone long term with, yet not at that cap hit. I'm not sure I see the saving there materializing.

McD was signed for 6 years, maybe he was unwilling to add a 7th or 8th year so he could maybe get the next contract he did get?

Kreider too maybe wanted to be a UFA at age no older than 28?
 
wouldn't the better option for the Rangers be for Dallas to miss the playoffs? The possibility for them to win (2) rounds this year is slim to none. Most likely they will be playing Winnipeg and then Nashville/STL. The odds of them beating both of those teams is not good. If they miss the playoffs, that 2nd rounder will be much better

I'd say that's the second best option.

More likely than the best option though.
 
If the Rangers don't know what they want to do with Kreider after having him in the organization since 2009 and on their team since 2012, then there is a huge problem.

Leopards don't change their spots.

This stuff should not be so complicated.

While I have a somewhat different take on Kreider than you, I whole-heartedly agree with the premise of this statement.
 
OK so lets play trade

Would you do Kreider for the 10th overall pick 2019?

It really would depend on who is on the board and what other picks we have.

Warts and all, I'm not sure we really appreciate how hard it can still be to go out and find a 25-30 goal scoring LW.

Having said that, let's say the Rangers nabbed someone like Byram with the sixth pick, and Turcotte was still on the board at 10. I have to tell you, I think I take the risk.
 
I could see a team who loses late in the playoffs, moving their 2019 1st and a conditional 2020 1st (if they can re-sign) Kreider. I'm looking directly at Nashville. If they don't win this year, I think Poile goes all in this off-season. And Kreider would be a re-signable asset for that organization with their cap layout moving forward.
 
It really would depend on who is on the board and what other picks we have.

Warts and all, I'm not sure we really appreciate how hard it can still be to go out and find a 25-30 goal scoring LW.

Having said that, let's say the Rangers nabbed someone like Byram with the sixth pick, and Turcotte was still on the board at 10. I have to tell you, I think I take the risk.

I'd add to Kreider for that. Which I believe would be the Jets 1st and the Rangers also maybe taking back a cap hit.

From the perspective of the team trading that pick, they are getting good value then, Kreider and not excluding themselves from the 1st round completely.

The outgoing cap hit they don't want, they can use to try to extend Kreider or whatever else.

If that is an over-payment I'm fine with that as the importance on these drafts in my opinion can not be overstated.
 
Ola, have you heard of David Booth? signed 6/25.5 out of his ELC, 8% of the cap, budding 30 goal Power Forward, woo!

Got concussed into next week, never was the same, became an anchor.

This isn't a video game where you give someone 7 years for $24M. That's not a thing. Guys will demand market value for their RFA years because that's what they want to get paid.
 
Just like the Zucc and Hayes stuff...
Been going to the Peter Griffin school of transitivity again?

Kerosene is fuel. Red bull is fuel. Kerosene is red bull.
Kerosene+_1f30eddcc9d20524a45e5d0593baced7.png
 
I'd add to Kreider for that. Which I believe would be the Jets 1st and the Rangers also maybe taking back a cap hit.

From the perspective of the team trading that pick, they are getting good value then, Kreider and not excluding themselves from the 1st round completely.

The outgoing cap hit they don't want, they can use to try to extend Kreider or whatever else.

If that is an over-payment I'm fine with that as the importance on these drafts in my opinion can not be overstated.

I mean let's be honest, coming away with something like a Byram-Turcotte haul from the draft is probably about as good as anyone can ask for outside of Hughes and Kakko.
 
I mean let's be honest, coming away with something like a Byram-Turcotte haul from the draft is probably about as good as anyone can ask for outside of Hughes and Kakko.
I'm not well versed enough in the prospects to be able to replace those names with some others, yet I'm assuming there has to be some wiggle room in there.
 
wouldn't the better option for the Rangers be for Dallas to miss the playoffs? The possibility for them to win (2) rounds this year is slim to none. Most likely they will be playing Winnipeg and then Nashville/STL. The odds of them beating both of those teams is not good. If they miss the playoffs, that 2nd rounder will be much better

Winnipeg and Nashville are flawed teams. Winnipeg is 3-4 since acquiring Hayes. Byfuglien is still hurt. He has a bad ankle. He is supposed to be back before the season ends. How will he play? Morrissey might be out until late in the 1st round. Nashville is worse. That team has trouble scoring goals. Both of them have issues.

Dallas needs to make the playoffs because they need to see Zuccarello play for them. The Stars want to re-sign him. Get a good feeling. Dallas should make the playoffs. Why can't they win a round or two? Bishop is playing great. Three straight shutouts. He should be a Vezina Trophy finalist. People are talking much about him. 2nd in GAA behind Bennington and 1st in save %. The Stars can defend this season. If they can get some offense which is where Zuccarello comes in, they can be a factor in the playoffs.

Dallas is two points behind the Blues for 3rd. The Blues have slowed down a bit. Taransenko is out. Upper body injury.

There won't be much of a difference between the Dallas 2nd based on them making the playoffs. A few picks.
 
The playoffs, along with the draft, are one of those things that fans think are incredibly predictable every year until it actually starts and they're like "oh yeah".

There's no way Dallas gets by Winnipeg/Nashville/Calgary/San Jose this year. There was no way NYR were getting by Pittsburgh and Boston in 2014.
 
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I'm not well versed enough in the prospects to be able to replace those names with some others, yet I'm assuming there has to be some wiggle room in there.

Sure. I was just using that as an example. For me it’s probably on the higher end of examples.
 
Ola, have you heard of David Booth? signed 6/25.5 out of his ELC, 8% of the cap, budding 30 goal Power Forward, woo!

Got concussed into next week, never was the same, became an anchor.

This isn't a video game where you give someone 7 years for $24M. That's not a thing. Guys will demand market value for their RFA years because that's what they want to get paid.
Rusty Olesz, Cam Barker, Cody Hodgson. Rick DiPietro (:laugh:).

The Risks of Not Bridging That THEY Don't Want You to Know.
 
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