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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXVIII

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NYRFANMANI said:
Slats was a catastrophe (at least the 10ish years i witnessed). No excuses for his decisions.

We can split Gorton's history into two time periods, with the addition that he had to deal with Slats' aftermath/ still kinda is.

His deals prior to the "tank" were a wash at best:

Staal trade: can only be deemed inconsequential, if the two 2nds and Saardude don't pan out. If even one asset does, horrible.
Yandle trade: at the time, a hurtful trade but Yandle did play well. What made this trade catastrophic is that we didn't resign him.
Brassard trade: homerun!
Trading a 4th for Holden turned into O'Gara and Keane. That's nice.
Trading McI (and later some picks) resulted in Quaider so far. Let's see what he brings back. But so far good job.
Trading for Smith: catastrophical. Out of all the pending UFA we aquired, the one we end up signing busts in our face.

This is it prior to the "tank". Since then Gorts has done very well, I feel.
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Yandle trade was before July 1st, 2015 (when Gorton took over)
 
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BBKers said:
6 days and a few hours left until TDL is reached.

Possible coming scenario - My prediction
  • Tonight game vs Carolina
  • Tomorrow McQuaid is dealt
  • Thursday game vs Minnesota
  • Friday Zucc is dealt
  • Saturday/Sunday games vs Devils/Capitals - Hayes and Names sit these games
  • Monday TDL - Names, Hayes are dealt along with a surprise trade. Or Two.
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The Rangers traded Holden on this day last year. The Tuesday before the Monday deadline. The Rangers played Philly on a Sunday afternoon and they were off until Thursday. Holden went on Tuesday. They played Thursday, Friday & Sunday.

The Rangers will probably start sitting Hayes & Zuccarello on Thursday. Go from there. I would pull them tonight from the lineup. Why risk it? Quinn can dress 8 D and 10 forwards.
 
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Idlerlee said:
What is an actual acceptable return for rental Zucc?

He's playing the best hockey of his career, slotting in with the first true 1st line Rangers have had in quite some time.

2nd rounders have a 44% chance of ever playing in the NHL, even fewer become regulars, and even fewer become top6/top pairing guys.

Is everyone happy with a 2nd rounder and a B prospect?
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You can't get hung up on recency. Big picture. He's still a 50 point wing approaching his last big contract and 32. We most likely will be worse next year.

I wouldn't be happy with passing up assets because they were enamored by a hot streak. Stick to the plan. Even for a 3rd. But he's going go get a 1st or a good prospect and a 2nd.
 
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If anyone would trade more for Zuccarello now than they would have a month ago they are just acting irrationally. He's the same guy. His skill set hasn't changed.

Oh also remember when Dylan Strome was a bust because he couldn't skate despite destroying the AHL? 35 points in 36 games in Chicago where he's actually allowed to play in an offensive role and gets big minutes. Shocking.
 
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Fitzy said:
2 out of 3 of TBL's superstar forwards weren't picked in the first round. Every pick can be big if you get lucky and scout well. Hell, Johnson and Gourde weren't even drafted.

It's why it's imperative that we get as many draft choices as possible while rebuilding.
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Key words being scout well.
 
bobbop said:
With tonight’s activity, the Rangers are up to number eight (from the bottom) in the standings. Only six points separate the Rangers from the second place Kings. Lottery odds improving. Stay tuned.

I wonder when MZA and Hayes get swathed in bubble wrap?
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Still trying to make the playoffs I guess. At least some people are.
 
NYRFANMANI said:
I wouldn't be. But he has to be dealt. Difficult. Maybe we overrate Zucc, maybe the league underrates him.

Staal got 2nds and a B prospect. I really want a 1st, but there are just so many to be had. If we aim at 2020 1st rd picks, there will be signing conditions.

In the end, I'd be slightly disappointed if that would be the return.
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We all need to be prepared for disappointment. As you pointed out, there are only so many 1st rounders to be had and this is a particularly tough trade market this year.
 
Tawnos said:
We all need to be prepared for disappointment. As you pointed out, there are only so many 1st rounders to be had and this is a particularly tough trade market this year.
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I would be happy with a good prospect like Fox for Zucc. Hayes will get a #1+ something.
 
This morning’s trade feature from Scott Burnside / The Athletic has Hayes to Winnipeg and Zuccarello to Calgary.

And, “if not Winnipeg, Hayes may be a fit for Dallas or Columbus.”
 
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Maybe we 100% not overrate him and he is worth a 1st + prospect or a 2nd with A rate prospect and if not resign him. People may think and wish what they want but this is simply what he is worth.
 
Fitzy said:
2 out of 3 of TBL's superstar forwards weren't picked in the first round. Every pick can be big if you get lucky and scout well. Hell, Johnson and Gourde weren't even drafted.

It's why it's imperative that we get as many draft choices as possible while rebuilding.
Click to expand...

we had 2 2nd round picks in 2011 both before kucherov was taken but then we traded them both for tim erixon lol
 
I would be disappointed with a 2nd and B prospect, not because I see that as an underpayment, more so because I think the Rangers are in position to take back cap hits for next season and there seems to be several buying teams that would be interested in removing them. That process should add more value to any trade. On the flip side, several sellers I'm not so sure I see them being willing to do the same.

Rangers also have several players who have some term left who could be retained on who could also add some value.

Is Ottawa really going to take back salary for next season would be my first question? Detroit and Anaheim have cap situations which are messy given LTIR. Edmonton needs cap space moving forward as does Tampa, Toronto.

Seems to me like there should be more possibilities for more moving parts to be included than the simple pick your rental type deals.
 
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Vinny said:
Maybe we 100% not overrate him and he is worth a 1st + prospect or a 2nd with A rate prospect and if not resign him. People may think and wish what they want but this is simply what he is worth.
Click to expand...

Then he’ll return that.

Market dictates worth. Resigning him would be a horrendous mistake. He’s played well, but it’s been such a small sample size and he’s still been hot ass more often than he hasn’t been this season.

We need another bad contract like a bullet in the brain.
 
NYRFANMANI said:
Slats was a catastrophe (at least the 10ish years i witnessed). No excuses for his decisions.

We can split Gorton's history into two time periods, with the addition that he had to deal with Slats' aftermath/ still kinda is.

His deals prior to the "tank" were a wash at best:

Staal trade: can only be deemed inconsequential, if the two 2nds and Saardude don't pan out. If even one asset does, horrible.
Yandle trade: at the time, a hurtful trade but Yandle did play well. What made this trade catastrophic is that we didn't resign him.
Brassard trade: homerun!
Trading a 4th for Holden turned into O'Gara and Keane. That's nice.
Trading McI (and later some picks) resulted in Quaider so far. Let's see what he brings back. But so far good job.
Trading for Smith: catastrophical. Out of all the pending UFA we aquired, the one we end up signing busts in our face.

This is it prior to the "tank". Since then Gorts has done very well, I feel.
Click to expand...
This is the type of moronic post that bothers me to no end. Says the last 10 years as GM was fantastic. They were good every year. He went to the finals, they won a Presidents Trophy, was one point away from winning another. He wasn’t good, he was great those last 10 years. How many dramatic overtime playoff games did they win those last 10 years? How many playoff series did the team win? Team won the second most playoff games in the whole league from 2011-2016. Then you have a clueless fan like this calling the guy a catastrophe. Go play make believe somewhere else. So ridiculous. This stuff about the Rangers having such an intelligent fan base has always been overblown. Some, sure but then you read something like this and it drops ten notches. All I remember those last 10 years were the Rangers winning a dramatic playoff game in OT and Sather celebrating in ownership box. Guy did that a couple million times but somehow he was a catastrophe. Talk about lack of reality and appreciation.
 
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Off Sides said:
I would be disappointed with a 2nd and B prospect, not because I see that as an underpayment, more so because I think the Rangers are in position to take back cap hits for next season and there seems to be several buying teams that would be interested in removing them. That process should add more value to any trade. On the flip side, several sellers I'm not so sure I see them being willing to do the same.

Rangers also have several players who have some term left who could be retained on who could also add some value.

Is Ottawa really going to take back salary for next season would be my first question? Detroit and Anaheim have cap situations which are messy given LTIR. Edmonton needs cap space moving forward as does Tampa, Toronto.

Seems to me like there should be more possibilities for more moving parts to be included than the simple pick your rental type deals.
Click to expand...

This is a really great point, and one that doesn't get talked about enough.

Yes, OTT has better pieces to sell than us, but their owner is a f***ing cheapskate. The odds of them taking back a bad contract is slim to none.

On the other hand, our pieces are still very good, AND we have space/willingness to take back a couple bad contracts. I think we'll definitely be the easier team to deal with come deadline day.

It's tough, though. OTT still has the best pieces to sell, and no GM wants to be the first to pull the trigger and overpay. Also factor in that you have some notoriously stingy GMs that have been rumored to be buyers (WPG, DAL, CBJ), and I could see this really going down to the wire.
 
wafflepadsave said:
Key words being scout well.
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Leetch3 said:
we had 2 2nd round picks in 2011 both before kucherov was taken but then we traded them both for tim erixon lol
Click to expand...
Before we just reflexively bash the ranger scouts and heap glory on tampa's, people should look who they picked ahead of point and kucherov. If their scouts are so great, how did they miss on Johnson and Gourdie at the draft?
 
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