Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXI (Will these playoffs ever F'ing end?)

[TGWL]

I agree. I would offer Jones and a 2ed to start. That's more than fair

They receive a 2nd if he doesn't sign. I'm not sure Jones moves the needle on them wanting to make a deal right now instead of waiting for a potential, better offer. I'm not doing that if I'm Tampa.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

ZIbanejad has 55 points in 58 playoff games with NYR. He led the team in playoff scoring one ECF run, and was 2nd in scoring the other.

Not sure where that narrative came from.

For what ever reason, people think Zibanejad is what Panarin actually has been in the playoffs.

 

[Fitzy]

For what ever reason, people think Zibanejad is what Panarin actually has been in the playoffs.

I generally assume it's because he has a foreign sounding name

 

[Kendo]

Young, mid 20’s players with tons of potential should be firmly on the rangers radar.

Shouldn't that go for every team in the league?

 

[LokiDog]

I meant culture change to improve. Brassard for Mika made the culture change worse. Brass was a consistent playoff performer, like Panarin Mika disappears when it matters most. The fact that the Rangers got anything for Andersson was luck. If Andersson wasnt related to the scouts of the Kings, he would have been placed on waivers

Where’d this narrative come from? Mika is a few things… soft, whines for calls taking himself out of the play and has lost his one timer… but his playoffs have always been good. He is definitely central to the culture we want to be changing, but the disappears when it matters label seems unfair. No one has been *dominant* in the playoffs for us, but Mika has shown up. Everyone disappeared in the ECF but we got overmatched and shutdown. Mika may be a part of the culture problem but I don’t know why people are suddenly saying he disappears when it matters most. His deficiencies are pretty uniform - he produces but he’s a part of the soft and “entitled” core we’re trying to change. He had a brutal half year when virtually everyone was having one last year. I don’t expect anymore 90 point seasons out of him, but I won’t be surprised if he’s back to 75 next year. He’ll still be soft and a part of the identity we’re trying to move away from, but I hardly expect him to be a 50 point anchor contract suddenly. It will take more than 45 bad games to convince me of that.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

They receive a 2nd if he doesn't sign. I'm not sure Jones moves the needle on them wanting to make a deal right now instead of waiting for a potential, better offer. I'm not doing that if I'm Tampa.

I thought there are no more compensation picks anymore.

 

[LokiDog]

Without checking the exacts, I am pretty sure he is significantly better in early rounds against lesser opponents than he is in later rounds

I’m pretty sure that’s true of virtually all players aside from the truly elite, MVP level players. The games get tighter, the opponents get better, it gets harder to score. Super elite players find ways. I don’t think anyone thinks Zibanejad is/was super elite. The whole team disappeared deeper into the playoffs. They got overmatched and outplayed by better teams. By all standards Panarin is the one who should have the talent to still break through against the stiffest opposition but he actually isn’t built for playoff hockey.

Look at me, defending Zib. Like most, I’m sick of him and his pouty faces and crying to the refs while the play goes the other way. And clearly he wasn’t good *enough* in the later rounds of the playoffs… but he also isn’t Barkov or Mackinnon or Point and expecting him to be at that level was never likely to pan out. He had a really bad, largely gutless season and has pretty much - justifiably - worn out his welcome with the fans. I just don’t like re-writing the previous history where he was largely held up as being one of the few guys who DID show up in the post season.

 

[TGWL]

I thought there are no more compensation picks anymore.

If a team drafts a player in the first round and they refuse to sign, the team is awarded a compensation pick in the second round at the spot they originally selected. I think the 2027 31st pick in the second round. So a team has to make it worth Tampa taking an early draft class as they're in no rush.

 

[Donny 77]

It's June.

Scouting combine is supposed to be place where teams will discuss trades because the draft is decentralized this year. There won't be any face to face discussions after the scouting combine.

In no particular order, I would trade these players.

Artemi Panarin is entering the last season of his seven year contract. The Rangers would be fools to extend Panarin. There seem to be potential moves with the southern California teams. Kenny Holland has discussed having the power to add significant players to the Kings. Pat Verbeek has a mandate to make the playoffs. Joel Quenneville is there. Panarin's first NHL HC. Panarin's good buddy Ryan Strome is there. Verbeek wanted to sign Steven Stamkos last summer. Right handed shot. Older player. California is still a nice play to live.

Chris Kreider has been a very good Ranger. Nothing is forever.

Mika Zibanejad is a crybaby entitled bitch. His comments on breakup day were awful. The players want a say in personnel and they couldn't understand the moves made by management. I remember Brian Boyle lost his mind when Zibanejad was the topic on the NY Post podcast. Mika discussed his contract having a NMC and both sides signed it. His contract didn't say anything about player personnel decisions. That's not in his contract. Kreider will be gone and Mika won’t be able to accept that. Mika is a terrible for the culture of the team.

K'Andre Miller doesn't seem to be interested in signing more than a two year extension taking him to group III. That is not in the Rangers best interests. He shares the same agent as Barclay Goodrow and you wonder if there are any residual bad feelings from that situation. Two years and then walk. Asking for a trade is a messy thing.

Adam Fox is the one player on the team with value who doesn't have any clause. The Rangers aren't chained to a list of team or don't have to ask for permission. He is a quality player. The Rangers should explore trade opportunities. EF did say Drury is willing to listen on anything. The Rangers should be able to get a really good deal for Fox to reboot the roster. I don't think the Rangers are a Cup team anymore. Where is the path towards a Cup for this team in the next 4 seasons? Sullivan's teams haven't made the playoffs since 2022. The Rangers need more than Sullivan's coaching. They don't have a million kids and picks to use to acquire NHL roster players. Free agency is a joke. Connor McDavid is not signing with the Rangers next summer. Jack Eichel is staying in Vegas, Acquire a top D to rebuild the D around and a top forward for Fox. Drury needs to do something significant. Fox is a smaller D and those guys don't really translate well in the playoffs. He isn't a fast guy either. How many teams have won with their lead D being 5-11 and 185 pounds? He is a 2nd pair D and PP guy on a winning team. The Rangers don't have the assets or the players to acquire other players to shield Fox from the heavy lifting acquired to win 16 playoff games. I see people making three trades to acquire pieces when you can acquire those pieces in a Fox deal. Fox was a top 3 D. Then top 5. I see people now saying top 10 D. It will be top 15 D by the end of next season.

I have no loyalty towards any of the Rangers players after what transpired last season which was an absolute shit show.

Ive been murdered for this before, but purely business and this summer is the last before Fox restriction clauses kick in for a looooong time.

If Im Drury I inquire about Tkachuk and Sanderson with something around Fox+Laf and whatever else it takes either way.

Thats a huge culture shift and we now have a legit 2xLD and 2xRD top 4 with Sanderson/Miller and Schneider/Borgen

Run Tkachuk/Miller/Trochek down the middle.

Send Panarin/Kreider packing for Defence. IDC if its Blue Chip prospects, unseasoned 2way kids, or a combo including a solid vet.

Build from the Net out.

We are chaulk full of wingers that need ice time and a path to work for.

Are we giving up the best player? Eh....Okay, fine. Are we getting back unbelievable balance at key positions? Definitely.

Faster, Stronger.

 

[TGWL]

Ive been murdered for this before, but purely business and this summer is the last before Fox restriction clauses kick in for a looooong time.

If Im Drury I inquire about Tkachuk and Sanderson with something around Fox+Laf and whatever else it takes either way.

Thats a huge culture shift and we now have a legit 2xLD and 2xRD top 4 with Sanderson/Miller and Schneider/Borgen

Run Tkachuk/Miller/Trochek down the middle.

Send Panarin/Kreider packing for Defence. IDC if its Blue Chip prospects, unseasoned 2way kids, or a combo including a solid vet.

Build from the Net out.

We are chaulk full of wingers that need ice time and a path to work for.

Are we giving up the best player? Eh....Okay, fine. Are we getting back unbelievable balance at key positions? Definitely.

Faster, Stronger.

Why is Brady playing center?

 

[LokiDog]

Why is Brady playing center?

Because he takes some of Stu’s face offs, like Kreider and Rantanen and Landeskog have done in the past, and people see he took 400 face offs and think it means he can play C. He doesn’t actually play C he just takes the draw.

That said I don’t despise the trade premise, but Brady isn’t a center.

 

[TGWL]

Because he takes some of Stu’s face offs, like Kreider and Rantanen and Landeskog have done in the past, and people see he took 400 face offs and think it means he can play C. He doesn’t actually play C he just takes the draw.

That said I don’t despise the trade premise, but Brady isn’t a center.

Yeah, he's definitely not an NHL center, and certainly not one I would use at the #1 guy.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Thats a huge culture shift and we now have a legit 2xLD and 2xRD top 4 with Sanderson/Miller and Schneider/Borgen

Where are the top 4 RD in this setup? Cause I don’t see them with the names listed here

You traded the only one the team has in that deal, of which would require the Rangers to add considerable assets to

 

[Donny 77]

My bad on Brady as C.

I was looking at Puckpedia and hes sandwiched betweeb Stutzle and Cozens. I thought they had him listed as a C, but apparently my eyes suck.

I dont watch out of market games much. I just remember him lining up against us at C a few games.

Regardless. I have a hard-on for him and Sanderson.

 

[LokiDog]

Where are the top 4 RD in this setup? Cause I don’t see them with the names listed here

You traded the only one the team has in that deal, of which would require the Rangers to add considerable assets to

It’s not as if we don’t get a 1LD, which they also lack, and the better forward. It’s not an awful deal. If we’re adding it would indicate we’re getting the more valuable pieces. I’m not saying I like it or suggest it, but I also don’t hate it they way most will.

 

[Donny 77]

Where are the top 4 RD in this setup? Cause I don’t see them with the names listed here

You traded the only one the team has in that deal, of which would require the Rangers to add considerable assets to

Schneider has been playing with a shoulder injury for 2 seasons.

Drury kept him over Mancini for a reason. Its time for him to put up or ship out. He's not burried behind Trouba now. Yet, Fox and Borgen are here so...

SCF top 4? No.
Better balanced and mobile? Yes.

Provorov, Gavrikov, Orlov arent moving the needle for me. Bringing in Sanderson puts Key in the 2LD slot where he belongs, imo.

I also mentioned sending Panarin/Krieder out for Dmen.

This team has serious flaws. It wont be rebuilt in one off season.

Are there 50+ better RD in the league over Schneider/Borgen? Yeah. How do we get them? Are their names out there? We can replace either down the road when options open up.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think I can understand the desire for wholesale changes but we need to collectively be careful that we understand that this team won the Presidents trophy last year. This team has good pieces that would be difficult to just replace should they be traded. It’s a much better idea to make some deals and then let things settle before just blowing up the entire thing.

By this I mean, trade Kreider, trade Panarin. Those are ‘simpler’ and should help reset some things. Defense needs to be a priority although Sullivan’s system will help. I’m not saying that trading Miller or Lafreniere should be off the table, they’re not McDavid, but replacing what they are in a ‘normal’ year is more difficult than many appreciate.

At some point, and that point isn’t likely this offseason, Drury is going to have the ability to trade a few lower line forwards for the opportunity to acquire someone. The young players they have coming are developing well so he’s going to be able to pick and choose who he wants to keep around and who can be used to facilitate a trade. Rempe. Edstrom. Laba. Roobreck. Chmelar. Berard. Othmann. BMB. They aren’t top-line player but they’re all trending to be support guys.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

It’s not as if we don’t get a 1LD, which they also lack, and the better forward. It’s not an awful deal. If we’re adding it would indicate we’re getting the more valuable pieces. I’m not saying I like it or suggest it, but I also don’t hate it they way most will.

the move doesn’t address any of the needs this team actually requires to improve. Like cool, you got a potential 1LD, you traded your best RD to get him.

And you moved considerable assets for a forward who while better than Lafreniere, is another winger on a team with 1000 wings

It’s a move to make a move. Robbing Peter to pay Paul

 

[bernmeister]

Where’d this narrative come from? Mika is a few things… soft, whines for calls taking himself out of the play and has lost his one timer… but his playoffs have always been good. He is definitely central to the culture we want to be changing, but the disappears when it matters label seems unfair. No one has been *dominant* in the playoffs for us, but Mika has shown up. Everyone disappeared in the ECF but we got overmatched and shutdown. Mika may be a part of the culture problem but I don’t know why people are suddenly saying he disappears when it matters most. His deficiencies are pretty uniform - he produces but he’s a part of the soft and “entitled” core we’re trying to change. He had a brutal half year when virtually everyone was having one last year. I don’t expect anymore 90 point seasons out of him, but I won’t be surprised if he’s back to 75 next year. He’ll still be soft and a part of the identity we’re trying to move away from, but I hardly expect him to be a 50 point anchor contract suddenly. It will take more than 45 bad games to convince me of that.

I’m pretty sure that’s true of virtually all players aside from the truly elite, MVP level players. The games get tighter, the opponents get better, it gets harder to score. Super elite players find ways. I don’t think anyone thinks Zibanejad is/was super elite. The whole team disappeared deeper into the playoffs. They got overmatched and outplayed by better teams. By all standards Panarin is the one who should have the talent to still break through against the stiffest opposition but he actually isn’t built for playoff hockey.

Look at me, defending Zib. Like most, I’m sick of him and his pouty faces and crying to the refs while the play goes the other way. And clearly he wasn’t good *enough* in the later rounds of the playoffs… but he also isn’t Barkov or Mackinnon or Point and expecting him to be at that level was never likely to pan out. He had a really bad, largely gutless season and has pretty much - justifiably - worn out his welcome with the fans. I just don’t like re-writing the previous history where he was largely held up as being one of the few guys who DID show up in the post season.

Whether or not he has 'shown up' in the playoffs offensively, his defense remains sub atrocious.

It is fair to say he aint Barkov or MacKinnon and it is not fair to say they are his benchmark. Howev, he aint kickin it at full Zib potential, and he should be called out for that every time.
And since there is reason to believe based on eye test there is lack of intensity/hustle, modify 'called out' to excoriated

 

[LokiDog]

Whether or not he has 'shown up' in the playoffs offensively, his defense remains sub atrocious.

It is fair to say he aint Barkov or MacKinnon and it is not fair to say they are his benchmark. Howev, he aint kickin it at full Zib potential, and he should be called out for that every time.
And since there is reason to believe based on eye test there is lack of intensity/hustle, modify 'called out' to excoriated

Sure. I’m feeling the Bern on this post. I agree with every word. My only argument, at all, was to not rewrite the past - there were series where Zib WAS the team’s offense and reason we got to where we did. He has fallen off and deserves to have his intensity and commitment questioned, as he was only 31 this past season. He is mopey. He is part of the Kreider-cryer club. But I just don’t like disingenuous arguments that reframe history that has already happened. Zib was a good playoff performer for us in the past. He is now questionable as even a valuable member of the future. Both can be true.

 

[LokiDog]

the move doesn’t address any of the needs this team actually requires to improve. Like cool, you got a potential 1LD, you traded your best RD to get him.

And you moved considerable assets for a forward who while better than Lafreniere, is another winger on a team with 1000 wings

It’s a move to make a move. Robbing Peter to pay Paul

One of the needs of this team is a drastic shift in identity and playing faster. Tkachuk and Sanderson do address that. It’s a 2W for a 1W and a 1RD+ for a 1LD. The hole shifts from RD to LD. We aren’t adding a winger, just replacing one. Sometimes a trade to make a trade IS needed and it’s hard to find fair value when the types of names like Fox, Tkachuk, Sanderson, etc. are involved. This isn’t a move I would hate and it would dramatically alter the locker room and team construction, which I desire.

But like I said, I’m not suggesting it, merely stating I don’t hate it the way most will.

 

[NYRnine94]

Ive been murdered for this before, but purely business and this summer is the last before Fox restriction clauses kick in for a looooong time.

If Im Drury I inquire about Tkachuk and Sanderson with something around Fox+Laf and whatever else it takes either way.

Thats a huge culture shift and we now have a legit 2xLD and 2xRD top 4 with Sanderson/Miller and Schneider/Borgen

Run Tkachuk/Miller/Trochek down the middle.

Send Panarin/Kreider packing for Defence. IDC if its Blue Chip prospects, unseasoned 2way kids, or a combo including a solid vet.

Build from the Net out.

We are chaulk full of wingers that need ice time and a path to work for.

Are we giving up the best player? Eh....Okay, fine. Are we getting back unbelievable balance at key positions? Definitely.

Faster, Stronger.

Tkachuk down the middle makes absolutely no sense at all. No idea what you're thinking with that one but the trade isn't bad.

 

[lakeshirts37]

Ive been murdered for this before, but purely business and this summer is the last before Fox restriction clauses kick in for a looooong time.

If Im Drury I inquire about Tkachuk and Sanderson with something around Fox+Laf and whatever else it takes either way.

Thats a huge culture shift and we now have a legit 2xLD and 2xRD top 4 with Sanderson/Miller and Schneider/Borgen

Run Tkachuk/Miller/Trochek down the middle.

Send Panarin/Kreider packing for Defence. IDC if its Blue Chip prospects, unseasoned 2way kids, or a combo including a solid vet.

Build from the Net out.

We are chaulk full of wingers that need ice time and a path to work for.

Are we giving up the best player? Eh....Okay, fine. Are we getting back unbelievable balance at key positions? Definitely.

Faster, Stronger.

no chance in hell Ottawa entertains this

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Schneider has been playing with a shoulder injury for 2 seasons.

Drury kept him over Mancini for a reason. Its time for him to put up or ship out. He's not burried behind Trouba now. Yet, Fox and Borgen are here so...

SCF top 4? No.
Better balanced and mobile? Yes.

Provorov, Gavrikov, Orlov arent moving the needle for me. Bringing in Sanderson puts Key in the 2LD slot where he belongs, imo.

I also mentioned sending Panarin/Krieder out for Dmen.

This team has serious flaws. It wont be rebuilt in one off season.

Are there 50+ better RD in the league over Schneider/Borgen? Yeah. How do we get them? Are their names out there? We can replace either down the road when options open up.

I think you are underestimating Gavrikov as well as Soucy as a 3rd pair guy. A top 7 of the below is a contender group, especially with everyone getting the procedures they had been putting off/rest.

Would love to work out a deal around Jones and a pick for Issac Howard as well.

Gavrikov - Fox
Miller - Borgen/Schneider
Soucy - Schneider/Borgen
Vaak

 

[effen]

Schneider for this guy is not a serious proposal. The Rangers will sooner trade K’Andre Miller I’d bet, before they trade Schneider.

It's not trading Schneider specifically, it's going out and trading for an 8th left wing. An entire roster of Left Wings. What even are positions. Let's f***ing go.