Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX

[Machinehead]

But he ended up being a kind of couch quarters goalie on other teams

That has no bearing on my soul.

 

[Machinehead]

This team isn’t doing anything this season, and even Brooks saying their success thus far is due to Panarin, Zibanejad and goaltending in his article.

Also wtf is he talking about trading DeAngelo at the deadline? Why would that even be a consideration at this point?

The path forward seems relatively straight forward to me. Sell Kreider to the highest bidder at the deadline and play the rest of the year to see where the chips land.

Self renting Kreider for (best case scenario) a schlacking in the first round would be idiotic

Because we have "too many" talented RHD who know what a puck is.

Just like when we traded Zubov because he and Leetch were too much offense.

Rangers gonna ranger.

 

[Edge]

Panarin and Zibanejad mask a lot of the holes this roster has — and not all of potential fixes are in the organization at this time.

Don’t get me wrong, watching those two has been a real treat and it’s exciting. But we’re essentially in the spot that Gorton talked about back in 2018 - the dreaded middle. That, coupled with the idea that this team needs more ammo over the long haul, leads me to believe that this team will be selling and/or making moves to balance their roster.

So when we talk about names like Kreider, or Georgiev, or even ADA, it’s not a matter of not liking a player, or not valuing a player. On the contrary, it’s a matter of finding out how they are viewed by others and whether you can find value pieces to build out a full roster — not just one that has great depth at RD and two high-end dynamic offensive forwards.

And at some point, that’s going to mean moving names that people are uncomfortable moving.

 

[effen]

They're dead in the middle in scoring because Panarin is a Gundam. There's no depth to speak of.

I don't see where we have it in spades. The idea that this organization has skill everywhere is so contrary to reality that I'm dumbfounded as to where the notion comes from.

We could go down a rabbit hole about all this but the short version is I think Geo can get a nice NHL or near-NHL Gritty McGritt which would be a lot more beneficial in the near to medium term. And I'd rather have that.

 

[Machinehead]

We could go down a rabbit hole about all this but the short version is I think Geo can get a nice NHL or near-NHL Gritty McGritt which would be a lot more beneficial in the near to medium term. And I'd rather have that.

So you want more grit. I figured.

 

[effen]

Because we have "too many" talented RHD who know what a puck is.

Just like when we traded Zubov because he and Leetch were too much offense.

Rangers gonna ranger.

They traded Zubov for "good hockey man" reasons (bad reason) and the fact he smoked roughly 30 cigarettes a day (good reason!) in a sport that demands cardiovascular performance.

 

[effen]

So you want more grit. I figured.

Kravstov (to pick someone sort of at random) will probably play a lot more comfortably and progress better if he has, yanno, space and stuff. It's not all about individual guys.

You watch some of this garbo, you see how hard it can be some nights when guys get swallowed up and promptly bend over.

 

[Machinehead]

They traded Zubov for "good hockey man" reasons (bad reason) and the fact he smoked roughly 30 cigarettes a day (good reason!) in a sport that demands cardiovascular performance.

He lasted until he was 38.

 

[Machinehead]

Kravstov (to pick someone sort of at random) will probably play a lot more comfortably and progress better if he has, yanno, space and stuff. It's not all about individual guys.

You watch some of this garbo, you see how hard it can be some nights when guys get swallowed up and promptly bend over.

We would have space and stuff if we had, yanno, the puck and stuff.

 

[effen]

He lasted until he was 38.

I'd imagine that got addressed.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

So when we talk about names like Kreider, or Georgiev, or even ADA, it’s not a matter of not liking a player, or not valuing a player. On the contrary, it’s a matter of finding out how they are viewed by others and whether you can find value pieces to build out a full roster — not just one that has great depth at RD and two high-end dynamic offensive forwards.

And at some point, that’s going to mean moving names that people are uncomfortable moving.

I’m all for moving guys like DeAngelo if the situation is right. If some team wants to trade a top line forward who’s going to be on this team for the next 5-7 years for DeAngelo at the deadline, go for it

But suggesting that “oh well his numbers are pretty good, and he’s arbitration eligible, better move him at the deadline” seems silly to me.

 

[Machinehead]

Can't we fix this first and then see where the chips fall on grit?

 

[Edge]

I'd imagine that got addressed.

Thank you for taking the words out of my mouth.

That point has been discussed ad nauseum on here.

 

[effen]

We would have space and stuff if we had, yanno, the puck and stuff.

Since teams don't trade their A-1 prospects anymore, they're all flawed. In that respect, I'd rather have another Lemieux-type than another Buchnevich type with this roster in the near-to-medium term.

I'm sorta surprised you'd seem to want the opposite.

 

[Edge]

I’m all for moving guys like DeAngelo if the situation is right. If some team wants to trade a top line forward who’s going to be on this team for the next 5-7 years for DeAngelo at the deadline, go for it

But suggesting that “oh well his numbers are pretty good, and he’s arbitration eligible, better move him at the deadline” seems silly to me.

Oh make no mistake, the Rangers have and continue to view ADA as a very valuable player. They’re not moving him just for the hell of it.

 

[Anzi]

Panarin and Zibanejad mask a lot of the holes this roster has — and not all of potential fixes are in the organization at this time.

Don’t get me wrong, watching those two has been a real treat and it’s exciting. But we’re essentially in the spot that Gorton talked about back in 2018 - the dreaded middle. That, coupled with the idea that this team needs more ammo over the long haul, leads me to believe that this team will be selling and/or making moves to balance their roster.

So when we talk about names like Kreider, or Georgiev, or even ADA, it’s not a matter of not liking a player, or not valuing a player. On the contrary, it’s a matter of finding out how they are viewed by others and whether you can find value pieces to build out a full roster — not just one that has great depth at RD and two high-end dynamic offensive forwards.

And at some point, that’s going to mean moving names that people are uncomfortable moving.

Reminds me a bit of this chart. Right now we're near the top of the sadness chart. We are most likely not going to make the playoffs and even if we do, we are very unlikely to make an actual run. The goal of the organization shouldn't be to make the playoffs this year, it should be to set the team up for a long streak of playoff runs in the near future. We really need to change course towards a high pick by selling off players we don't plan on keeping long term. This team still needs more high end talent to ensure the team will be able to maintain competitiveness throughout the next decade.

 

[Machinehead]

Since teams don't trade their A-1 prospects anymore, they're all flawed. In that respect, I'd rather have another Lemieux-type than another Buchnevich type with this roster in the near-to-medium term.

I'm sorta surprised you'd seem to want the opposite.

You're sorta surprised that I want more talent instead of more f***ery?

Have you missed all of my posts the last ten years?

 

[Machinehead]

Reminds me a bit of this chart. Right now we're near the top of the sadness chart. We are most likely not going to make the playoffs and even if we do, we are very unlikely to make an actual run. The goal of the organization shouldn't be to make the playoffs this year, it should be to set the team up for a long streak of playoff runs in the near future. We really need to change course towards a high pick by selling off players we don't plan on keeping long term. This team still needs more high end talent to ensure the team will be able to maintain competitiveness throughout the next decade.

Oh no, analytics!

 

[Edge]

Reminds me a bit of this chart. Right now we're near the top of the sadness chart. We are most likely not going to make the playoffs and even if we do, we are very unlikely to make an actual run. The goal of the organization shouldn't be to make the playoffs this year, it should be to set the team up for a long streak of playoff runs in the near future. We really need to change course towards a high pick by selling off players we don't plan on keeping long term. This team still needs more high end talent to ensure the team will be able to maintain competitiveness throughout the next decade.

In terms of selling, I don’t think there will be a massive sell-off. I think we’re past that point.

Outside of a potential Kreider move, what I do think you’ll see them explore is actual roster moves. Although, those might not really come until the off-season.

 

[effen]

You're sorta surprised that I want more talent instead of more ****ery?

Have you missed all of my posts the last ten years?

While it's not a binary thing of grit v. skill, the last several years have been a case study on how a lack of team grit messes up a lot of foundational parts of hockey that make the skill stuff effective. In a lot of respects the Rangers have been playing games with one hand tied behind their backs and frankly relying on goaltending and individual gundam players to paper over that deficiency as they get hemmed in their zone for extended periods and give up the slot and take penalties because in no small part, their guys seem to want it a little bit less.

To each their own.

 

[Edge]

I still don’t think it’s finesse or grit.

It’s finesse and grit. Be it in combinations of players, or being to find players who combine different percentages of both.

This issue always becomes more black and white than it needs to be.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Oh make no mistake, the Rangers have and continue to view ADA as a very valuable player. They’re not moving him just for the hell of it.

As they should

Like I said for this deadline, a Kreider trade makes sense to me based on the situation.

There’s no reason to move guys just because at this point. The ship does not need to be torn down to the studs anymore.

 

[Machinehead]

While it's not a binary thing of grit v. skill, the last several years have been a case study on how a lack of team grit messes up a lot of foundational parts of hockey that make the skill stuff effective. In a lot of respects the Rangers have been playing games with one hand tied behind their backs and frankly relying on goaltending and individual gundam players to paper over that deficiency as they get hemmed in their zone for extended periods and give up the slot and take penalties because in no small part, their guys seem to want it a little bit less.

To each their own.

They only seem to want it a little bit less because they're getting clowned every night.

When have the Rangers ever, ever, ever been a team loaded with skill?

 

[effen]

Anywho, this was all a big digression from what I meant as my point, which is Georgiev is more valuable than a recent late 2nd who's been doing stuff lately.

They can do better than a 1-for-1 at least for Robertson.

As for Kreider, I think it's him or Buchnevich one of the other. They can't reasonably fit both. I think the brass would rather have Kreider, but it's a cap world.

 

[Machinehead]

I still don’t think it’s finesse or grit.

It’s finesse and grit. Be it in combinations of players, or being to find players who combine different percentages of both.

This issue always becomes more black and white than it needs to be.

I get that it's not black and white but when presented with the idea that the finesse is in place I have two questions:

1) where, now?

2) when, ever?

This team has lacked elite talent up front since I was shitting diapers.