Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[NickyFotiu]

I hope the Rangers. Downgrading Fox to Rielly just to add another playoff choker with a huge price tag would be disastrous.

They had to be in the playoffs to choke in the 7th game. We lost to Florida in 6 games.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

They had to be in the playoffs to choke in the 7th game. We lost to Florida in 6 games.

Sure. They are also 0-7 in game 7s.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Sure. They are also 0-7 in game 7s.

What does that mean? Does that mean Fox is better than Mathews because he did not lose in the playoffs this season? Or because he lost to Florida in 6 games last season? This is a Rangers forum so I respect that people that support and want to keep Fox but I think outside of this board most people would want Mathews and Reilly over Fox, CK and Zibs. I could be wrong but that is my view.

 

[IDvsEGO]

So do you say yes? Or no?

I say absolutely no.
I’d love Matthews. I’m ok with everything leaving except Fox.
And if you’re moving 93/20 you’re probably using a 3rd team to move them if you’re going for someone like Matthews.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

What does that mean? Does that mean Fox is better than Mathews because he did not lose in the playoffs this season? Or because he lost to Florida in 6 games last season? This is a Rangers forum so I respect that people that support and want to keep Fox but I think outside of this board most people would want Mathews and Reilly over Fox, CK and Zibs. I could be wrong but that is my view.

It means they can't win the big game when it matters. Something the Rangers are familiar with, so why add more of those players? I'm just not a fan of adding an admittedly really good player at the cost of completely decimating an already poor defensive core. To each their own.

 

[Machinehead]

People talk about chokers, and get philosophical, and bring up game 7's, and that makes sense because that's a juicy topic.

But I'm not a philosophical guy when it comes to roster construction. The Leafs aren't good enough. They have massive holes despite having a few sexy names and they're just not that good at even strength.

That's why the Rangers comparison comes up.

Yeah, we lost in 6, but we lost for the same reasons. There's too many negative players in the lineup that a heavy forechecking team like Florida preys on.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I say absolutely no.
I’d love Matthews. I’m ok with everything leaving except Fox.
And if you’re moving 93/20 you’re probably using a 3rd team to move them if you’re going for someone like Matthews.

Nobody is breaking down the door for CK nor Zibs. To get Mathews I suspect we would have to give up a lot more than just Fox. I am glad you support our guys though.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It means they can't win the big game when it matters. Something the Rangers are familiar with, so why add more of those players? I'm just not a fan of adding an admittedly really good player at the cost of completely decimating an already poor defensive core. To each their own.

I understand and that is fair but is Fox better than Mathews? I think that is what a large part of the deal would be about. Its a team game. Blaming Mathews for that game 7 loss would be like blaming Fox for not making the playoffs, losing to Florida in 6 and losing to the Devils in 7.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Trade Kreider and Zibs, sign Bennett and Marchand... then win

 

[NYR Viper]

Trade Kreider and Zibs, sign Bennett and Marchand... then win

I really like Marchand the player/leader but I REALLY don't want to see this team sign (2) middle-6 wingers...

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

I understand and that is fair but is Fox better than Mathews? I think that is what a large part of the deal would be about. Its a team game. Blaming Mathews for that game 7 loss would be like blaming Fox for not making the playoffs, losing to Florida in 6 and losing to the Devils in 7.

Is giving up a ton more goals worth adding a good regular season scorer?

 

[bigdog16]

I know it's cliche but that Florida team is built for deep playoff runs. They have horses at every position that will absolutely lay it on the line. Teams like the Leafs are built for great regular seasons preying on lesser competition and racking up numbers. Pretty similar to the Rangers last year, sure we lost in 6 to Florida but everyone with a pulse knew that series was over before it started. They were totally outclassed. It could have been over in 4 if not for lucky bounces from Goodrow and Alex Wennberg.

(I totally forgot Alex Wennberg even played for this team)

 

[NYR Viper]

Is giving up a ton more goals worth adding a good regular season scorer?

Matthews is getting a bad rap for things that aren't entirely his fault. I'd take him in a heartbeat in NY. Not for Fox, but hell yes.

The Leafs issues is that they don't get enough secondary scoring in the playoffs and their defense has never been adept at moving the puck so they get hemmed in their own zone. Matthews can't do it all. We see it time and time again where a single line team gets that line shut down in the playoffs as teams gameplan for them which SHOULD open up time and space for other lines but those guys are non-existent in Toronto. Tavares and Marner are bigger culprits there just due to cap hits.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Is giving up a ton more goals worth adding a good regular season scorer?

Did we give up a ton more goals when Fox was out? Is Mathews considered a two way Center? Is Mathews considered a top 10 player? Is Fox? Once again I respect and appreciate your support of our NYR player but value wise who do you think non Ranger fans without emotional attachment would place at a higher value?

 

[TGWL]

Toronto's backend was one of the most playoff ready backends they've had in a long time, and it still couldn't handle the forecheck. Guys, winning is hard. Adding 2 players isn't going to suddenly turn this team into legit contenders when the rest of the team floats.

I was listening earlier to a podcast where they mentioned somebody who joined Florida's backend. (Don't think it was a player joining this year and it was background noise), but the team roasted him for doing something risky or flashy in his first practice. Letting him know how they're supposed to be playing in that scenario. We dont have that group even with the editions of 2 players like Bennett and Marchand.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I really like Marchand the player/leader but I REALLY don't want to see this team sign (2) middle-6 wingers...

I always hate the term Middle six because ideally you don't want 3rd liners playing in the top 6. Neither guy is a 3rd line player, if they were on the 3rd line they would be 2nd line players playing on the 3rd line which is what you want for depth.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Toronto's backend was one of the most playoff ready backends they've had in a long time, and it still couldn't handle the forecheck. Guys, winning is hard. Adding 2 players isn't going to suddenly turn this team into legit contenders when the rest of the team floats.

I was listening earlier to a podcast where they mentioned somebody who joined Florida's backend. (Don't think it was a player joining this year and it was background noise), but the team roasted him for doing something risky or flashy in his first practice. Letting him know how they're supposed to be playing in that scenario. We dont have that group even with the editions of 2 players like Bennett and Marchand.

Toronto's forwards were the problem with their back end receiving pressure, nobody slowed any of their forwards down, there was a clear lane to their d and Florida took it.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Did we give up a ton more goals when Fox was out? Is Mathews considered a two way Center? Is Mathews considered a top 10 player? Is Fox? Once again I respect and appreciate your support of our NYR player but value wise who do you think non Ranger fans without emotional attachment would place at a higher value?

Matthews pisses me off, don't want that whiney sook anywhere near this team. He's Alexi Yashin 2.0

 

[NYR Viper]

I always hate the term Middle six because ideally you don't want 3rd liners playing in the top 6. Neither guy is a 3rd line player, if they were on the 3rd line they would be 2nd line players playing on the 3rd line which is what you want for depth.

Marchand had 51 points in 71 games this year which are really good numbers but he is going to be 37. I'm not saying he won't be an effective player, but I think expecting him to be a top-6 guy for his entire contract is probably incorrect.

I could see someone saying that it would make some sense to sign someone like Marchand with the thought process being that young guys like Berard, Othmann and Perrault could push him down in a year or two and he plays the style of game that would still be effective in a 3rd line role, even if he was slightly overpaid at that time. You could convince me of that.

 

[haohmaru]

What does that mean? Does that mean Fox is better than Mathews because he did not lose in the playoffs this season? Or because he lost to Florida in 6 games last season? This is a Rangers forum so I respect that people that support and want to keep Fox but I think outside of this board most people would want Mathews and Reilly over Fox, CK and Zibs. I could be wrong but that is my view.

Were the Leafs in the Conference Final?

Nope. That hasn't happened since, ummmmmmm, yeah, since Messier wore the jersey in his 40's.

I understand and that is fair but is Fox better than Mathews? I think that is what a large part of the deal would be about. It's a team game. Blaming Mathews for that game 7 loss would be like blaming Fox for not making the playoffs, losing to Florida in 6 and losing to the Devils in 7.

Fox was significantly hampered by an injury last year that everyone was aware of. Matthews didn't elaborate when asked if he was hurt or not but he didn't say he was.

Honestly, would I rather have Fox than Matthews at this point? Probably. Matthews has a ton of baggage and a huge weight on his back. Miller/Trocheck/Zibanejad is easier to live with at center with Fox in the lineup than, let's say, Matthews/Miller/Trocheck and.... who? KAM is now our 1D? Yuck.

 

[Levitate]

I understand and that is fair but is Fox better than Mathews?

Yes

e: I dunno that I'd put Florida on a pedestal in terms of "you can only win like THIS" and try to do everything to copy them. They got a formula that worked for them and to their credit they've kept the killer instinct that sometimes teams kinda lose.

The Rangers need to find their own way and not drop everything to be "florida 2.0"

 

[NickyFotiu]

Were the Leafs in the Conference Final?

Nope. That hasn't happened since, ummmmmmm, yeah, since Messier wore the jersey in his 40's.



Fox was significantly hampered by an injury last year that everyone was aware of. Matthews didn't elaborate when asked if he was hurt or not but he didn't say he was.

Honestly, would I rather have Fox than Matthews at this point? Probably. Matthews has a ton of baggage and a huge weight on his back. Miller/Trocheck/Zibanejad is easier to live with at center with Fox in the lineup than, let's say, Matthews/Miller/Trocheck and.... who? KAM is now our 1D? Yuck.

I appreciate your opinion. My opinion is that Mathews is the bigger, stronger more productive player and that he has more value league wide. I could be 100% wrong but I believe people outside of this fan base value Mathews much higher than Fox even before this season.
Your point about the D is valid. I think we need a #1 D pairing guy with or without Fox if Fox plays like he has for parts of the last 2 seasons going back to the NJ playoff series. I do understand he has had some injuries and I do not blame him for that. Its not like I'm saying a nobody for Fox. Mathews is a former Hart winner. A Richard winner. A guy that is rated a top 10 player.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Did we give up a ton more goals when Fox was out? Is Mathews considered a two way Center? Is Mathews considered a top 10 player? Is Fox? Once again I respect and appreciate your support of our NYR player but value wise who do you think non Ranger fans without emotional attachment would place at a higher value?

Id argue both players are top 10 at their position. Neither player has been able to push their team over the top and D is more concerning to me than C. Especially after the Miller trade.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Yes

e: I dunno that I'd put Florida on a pedestal in terms of "you can only win like THIS" and try to do everything to copy them. They got a formula that worked for them and to their credit they've kept the killer instinct that sometimes teams kinda lose.

The Rangers need to find their own way and not drop everything to be "florida 2.0"

You believe Fox is better than Mathews? Thanks for answering the question.

 

[Levitate]

You believe Fox is better than Mathews? Thanks for answering the question.

I mean, I dunno, it's a hard thing to compare them and I think people severely underrate fox around here. Matthews is a fantastic goal scorer but also has had a ton of injury issues. To me its a pointless question though cuz they're not gonna make that trade anyways. I know we need something to talk about but coming up with trade proposals and arguing over the validity of them always feels weird to me.