Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[n8]

Interesting we haven't heard any of our beat writers say much more either way about Drury keeping the pick or giving it away.

Might mean that they are still mulling options.

If they were the keep the pick I have to imagine it is for trade purposes.

I'm jaded. Which ever pick is kept by Drury is getting traded one way or another. They way I'd love to see Drury actually trade the #12 would be to trade down multiple times and end up with like three 2nd rounders in 2026 in addition to like say the #26-32 OA as the final draft position.

I'm still jaded though. He'd do some great asset management there but to turn around and find some way to trade all of those 2nd rounders away.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Sure we all have indiv hits + misses, but my track record is sufficiently high enuf that I can say more often than not I was correct, and same can't be said for Rs mgmt

This cannot be said for many who followed herd mentality, which often emphasized immediate gain regardless of consequences

just 3 (besides obv trade Lindgren, etc)
I said not to trade Kreider 10 yrs ago
I said deal vets, keep youth
I said no to stupid win now cannibalizing of draft picks

there are plenty more and I'm too busy to make a list
The entire board knows me.
And again, Boo Nieves as a test at pivot betw Kreider + Zib is also correct, b'c as I said, there was zero reason to at least not try as an experiment. Even then there was reason to ? if Meeka not more effective a a W

The problem is you declare victory when outcomes are/were unknown. No one knows if Boo would have been good as 1C. Obviously the coaches didn't think so nor did his production point to that. It's much more likely that experiment would have been a massive failure. Yet here you are claiming victory.

 

[Machinehead]

Could something be worked on based on Cole Sillinger to Rangers for K’Andre Miller?

Idk, I get why people want to move on from K'Andre, but defense is already a position of dire need.

 

[Kupo]

Long shot but If the Leafs lose tonight and they change it up what about Tavares back to NY?

Hell to the no.

 

[Kendo]

Sure we all have indiv hits + misses, but my track record is sufficiently high enuf that I can say more often than not I was correct, and same can't be said for Rs mgmt

This cannot be said for many who followed herd mentality, which often emphasized immediate gain regardless of consequences

just 3 (besides obv trade Lindgren, etc)
I said not to trade Kreider 10 yrs ago
I said deal vets, keep youth
I said no to stupid win now cannibalizing of draft picks

there are plenty more and I'm too busy to make a list
The entire board knows me.
And again, Boo Nieves as a test at pivot betw Kreider + Zib is also correct, b'c as I said, there was zero reason to at least not try as an experiment. Even then there was reason to ? if Meeka not more effective a a W

Yeah, getting value for Lindy and Troubs was hardly controversial. We basically all agree with what happened. Drury did good there.

No one was pushing to trade CK 10 years ago. Mgmt didn't trade him 10 years ago. Yay, everybody wins again!!!

"Deal vets, keep youth" is an evergreen sentiment. However, you deal wasted youth like Lias and then luck into Cuylle. Deal Nils for a do-over. So it doesn't work as a blanket statement. In general though, it's an easy premise to agree with. That's not exactly sticking your neck out.

I liked the Copp move. It was arguably successful. I didn't like the Kane move. It didn't move the needle one bit. Again, it doesn't work as a blanket statement. Two ECFs with a couple bounces away from a Cup final each time. Some good moves, and some examples of "one move too many" over the past 5 years.

Vegas won with cannibalism being a core tenet. It's always case by case.

Florida did some well-timed additions that cost some real assets and won. They then doubled down adding Seth and The Rat this season. Case by case.


I've been here longer than you. Just more of a lurker. The entire board doesn't know me, but you do. I engage in good faith and you know that.

And then you did the synergy meme. I love it! The funny thing is, in that one moment of time I wouldn't have minded a call-up to try it out. At all. But it became a hill to die on weeks later when the moment had passed. Or a bunker to die in over time.

You're not crazy. You're just more fun when you don't portray yourself as smarter than most gms and fans alike.

 

[bernmeister]

The problem is you declare victory when outcomes are/were unknown. No one knows if Boo would have been good as 1C. Obviously the coaches didn't think so nor did his production point to that. It's much more likely that experiment would have been a massive failure. Yet here you are claiming victory.

It's not a prob as you allege. Again, eye test says there was indication Boo 'carried the mail' well enough, and the premise was add a driver of play [Kreider] to a facilitator [Boo] and a scorer [Zib] you on paper had all elements for a successful line.
R mgmt stupidly kept wonder twins together and they spent most of remaining seasons looking for another W to fit.
Pt is moot to extent boo concussions remove him from the picture, but at the time it was the correct move, every day + 2x on Sunday

And yes, I will have the fuggin balls to declare victory, esp with detractors who tell me water is not wet, and can not refute honestly/accurately what I've said.

Look in the mirror man.
I will refute you for every time you bring up this nonsense

 

[bernmeister]

Yeah, getting value for Lindy and Troubs was hardly controversial. We basically all agree with what happened. Drury did good there.

No one was pushing to trade CK 10 years ago. Mgmt didn't trade him 10 years ago. Yay, everybody wins again!!!

"Deal vets, keep youth" is an evergreen sentiment. However, you deal wasted youth like Lias and then luck into Cuylle. Deal Nils for a do-over. So it doesn't work as a blanket statement. In general though, it's an easy premise to agree with. That's not exactly sticking your neck out.

I liked the Copp move. It was arguably successful. I didn't like the Kane move. It didn't move the needle one bit. Again, it doesn't work as a blanket statement. Two ECFs with a couple bounces away from a Cup final each time. Some good moves, and some examples of "one move too many" over the past 5 years.

Vegas won with cannibalism being a core tenet. It's always case by case.

Florida did some well-timed additions that cost some real assets and won. They then doubled down adding Seth and The Rat this season. Case by case.


I've been here longer than you. Just more of a lurker. The entire board doesn't know me, but you do. I engage in good faith and you know that.

And then you did the synergy meme. I love it! The funny thing is, in that one moment of time I wouldn't have minded a call-up to try it out. At all. But it became a hill to die on weeks later when the moment had passed. Or a bunker to die in over time.

You're not crazy. You're just more fun when you don't portray yourself as smarter than most gms and fans alike.

you deserve courtesy of more detailed reply, I will endeavor when I can
some agree/disagree here

 

[Kendo]

Idk, I get why people want to move on from K'Andre, but defense is already a position of dire need.

I get it, but I also don't. Key is our only bona fide top 4D outside of Fox. Borgen and Schneider are both "Awesome #5's" at this point in time. An LD is certainly a dire need.

At LD specifically we have a real talent that suffers from brain farts, two 6/7 guys that are both likeable and play different games, and Carson Soucy.

It will take two "Top 4 Quality" LD to replace Miller.

 

[Machinehead]

I get it, but I also don't. Key is our only bona fide top 4D outside of Fox. Borgen and Schneider are both "Awesome #5's" at this point in time. An LD is certainly a dire need.

At LD specifically we have a real talent that suffers from brain farts, two 6/7 guys that are both likeable and play different games, and Carson Soucy.

It will take two "Top 4 Quality" LD to replace Miller.

He's a frustrating player but he's a frustrating player that we also can't realistically replace right now in any type of meaningful way.

 

[Kendo]

you deserve courtesy of more detailed reply, I will endeavor when I can
some agree/disagree here

You really don't need to add a detailed response.

"You're not crazy. You're just more fun when you don't portray yourself as smarter than most gms and fans alike."

You don't need to tell me why any of your ideas aren't "crazy." I'm already being kind. If you want to make a case why you actually are smarter than most, then no thanks. That's less fun. =)

 

[Kendo]

He's a frustrating player but he's a frustrating player that we also can't realistically replace right now in any type of meaningful way.

One hundo.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

It's not a prob as you allege. Again, eye test says there was indication Boo 'carried the mail' well enough, and the premise was add a driver of play [Kreider] to a facilitator [Boo] and a scorer [Zib] you on paper had all elements for a successful line.
R mgmt stupidly kept wonder twins together and they spent most of remaining seasons looking for another W to fit.
Pt is moot to extent boo concussions remove him from the picture, but at the time it was the correct move, every day + 2x on Sunday

And yes, I will have the fuggin balls to declare victory, esp with detractors who tell me water is not wet, and can not refute honestly/accurately what I've said.

Look in the mirror man.
I will refute you for every time you bring up this nonsense

If your eye test told you that it's time to see your optometrist.

 

[NYR Viper]

I get it, but I also don't. Key is our only bona fide top 4D outside of Fox. Borgen and Schneider are both "Awesome #5's" at this point in time. An LD is certainly a dire need.

At LD specifically we have a real talent that suffers from brain farts, two 6/7 guys that are both likeable and play different games, and Carson Soucy.

It will take two "Top 4 Quality" LD to replace Miller.

I don’t hate Soucy honestly. I realize he’s a bottom pairing guy but I would be okay with him in the top-6. The part I’m struggling with is the pairings in general. The only 5v5 combinations that make sense to me include Soucy with Fox which I’m not fond of. I really don’t love the idea of Soucy-Schneider or Soucy-Borgen.

 

[JohnC]

He's a frustrating player but he's a frustrating player that we also can't realistically replace right now in any type of meaningful way.

How could you pass up the opportunity to add another #6D to this roster?

 

[haohmaru]

Yeah, getting value for Lindy and Troubs was hardly controversial. We basically all agree with what happened. Drury did good there.

Bern said we wouldn't get a bag of pucks for Lindgren. I said he was wrong. And this counts as a "plus" for his track record?

 

[haohmaru]

It's not a prob as you allege. Again, eye test says there was indication Boo 'carried the mail' well enough, and the premise was add a driver of play [Kreider] to a facilitator [Boo] and a scorer [Zib] you on paper had all elements for a successful line.
R mgmt stupidly kept wonder twins together and they spent most of remaining seasons looking for another W to fit.
Pt is moot to extent boo concussions remove him from the picture, but at the time it was the correct move, every day + 2x on Sunday

And yes, I will have the fuggin balls to declare victory, esp with detractors who tell me water is not wet, and can not refute honestly/accurately what I've said.

Look in the mirror man.
I will refute you for every time you bring up this nonsense

Nothing says first line center like 19 points in 76 NHL career games.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Bern said we wouldn't get a bag of pucks for Lindgren. I said he was wrong. And this counts as a "plus" for his track record?

I think lindgren was expected to get value.
Trouba on the other hand, was not. By a lot of people. Multiple years left, large cap hits usually aren’t easily moved, when the player isn’t performing to his cap hit

 

[Kendo]

I don’t hate Soucy honestly. I realize he’s a bottom pairing guy but I would be okay with him in the top-6. The part I’m struggling with is the pairings in general. The only 5v5 combinations that make sense to me include Soucy with Fox which I’m not fond of. I really don’t love the idea of Soucy-Schneider or Soucy-Borgen.

I really think Miller-Fox makes sense.

Schneider-Borgen is an idea.

 

[bleedblue94]

I make a lot of wrong calls so take it for what it's worth. I don't think Mika or Kreids gets shipped out until around Xmas. Sullivan will be given a chance to turn those two around. They'll probably know in a month or two and then another month or two to work out a deal somewhere.

These kind of moves usually happen in the off-season so they don't turn into a trouba situation.

 

[NYR Viper]

I really think Miller-Fox makes sense.

Schneider-Borgen is an idea.

I like that pairing but I don't like the ones after that

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Miller has to show up and decide to be a competitor next season if he wants to be a top pair dman with Fox. His season was awful this year.

 

[haohmaru]

I think lindgren was expected to get value.
Trouba on the other hand, was not. By a lot of people. Multiple years left, large cap hits usually aren’t easily moved, when the player isn’t performing to his cap hit

He was by a lot of us. Not Bern.

 

[Riche16]

On the subject of Barkov and the Panthers vs. Rangers 2024 playoffs----Rangers players seemed to come out of the defeat with this idea that they were really close. What I saw OTOH was a very large territorial advantage for the Panthers throughout the series and Igor keeping us in games that we were being badly outplayed in and even stealing at least one of our two victories. We had issues throughout the series keeping Panthers forwards away from our net. Quite often our players were stuck in their own end on lengthy shifts with sometimes the Panthers making multiple shift changes. Even when we managed to break the D zone more often than not it seemed the puck went right back in moments later. Even if Barkov did not put up a lot of points he dominated his matchups against our centers and particularly with Zibanejad. Our net was continually being swarmed and to me just the accumulation of chances against led inevitably to our falling short. On the other hand the Panthers defense almost always had net front control. It was clear to me we were outmatched and at both ends of the ice except in goal.

Maybe some Rangers players believed they were close---maybe even they thought that playing a defense half of which was banged up in a more ideal situation they could have won. I don't think so. But anyway Barkov didn't have to score more points than Mika in last year's playoffs to show he was the superior player. He showed that in the series we played with them. He was effective game in and game out and Mika struggled throughout that series.......not that he was the only one.

I mean honestly, this goes way back before FLA last season... it goes back before Tampa & it goes back to CAR & PITT 3 yrs back.

We've NOT been close no matter what management felt or what the players felt or what the fans felt.

If we lost to Pitt I don't think we keep up with the charade as long but who knows?

 

[Cmox]

whoopsies

 

[bernmeister]

You really don't need to add a detailed response.

"You're not crazy. You're just more fun when you don't portray yourself as smarter than most gms and fans alike."

You don't need to tell me why any of your ideas aren't "crazy." I'm already being kind. If you want to make a case why you actually are smarter than most, then no thanks. That's less fun. =)

1. you "being kind" don't do me no favors, and patronize me at yr own risk.
2. I never claim to be the smartest guy in the room, although an honest evaluation here = not too shabby.
When other peeps have a theory on how to restructure the international monetary system and provide partial solution to a good chunk of world's problems, a theory which an advisor to 3 Presidents says checks out, THEN THEY CAN TALK.
And until the cheapskates here want to break down and spend $30 to download a copy of the primer for this, they can't talk either.
3. I DO claim to usually be the most creative, outside the box guy. And if the herd here wants to blindly follow the conventional wisdom of the moment, fine. My creativity usually prevails head to head.

4. And setting aside we all, including myself, have a right to post as long as we defend our positions, it is nec to regularly emphasize my positions, b'c certain na'er do well detractors insist on improperly/unfairly misrepresenting my positions w/wrong or out of context statements.

Example illustrating is below...

If your eye test told you that it's time to see your optometrist.

Fluff w/o substantiation. Go back and look at the video. The potential WAS there. Boo was intentionally not given a chance and played w/4th liners who never scored. Then Nieves played w/concussions and I think had like 4 we know of when he retired.
Stop

Bern said we wouldn't get a bag of pucks for Lindgren. I said he was wrong. And this counts as a "plus" for his track record?

OUT OF CONTEXT LIE. Which mod do I complain to to make you bend, buckle and break with an apology for yr wilful misrepresentation?

Yes, AT THE VERY END, I said we would be lucky to get a 7th and not have to pay to move him. So in a vacuum, isolated and not 111% representative of my position, that was correct.
BUT THE OVERRIDING AND DOMINANT FACTOR that the whole board knows is I have been pushing them to trade Lindgren for a good 3-4 years

Go to the corner, admit your shame, return when you are willing to be honest, not deceitful.

Nothing says first line center like 19 points in 76 NHL career games.

or that b'c playing w/4th line turds and not having a chance w/any talent
despite I think we had a 2nd invested in him...

or AGAIN, pay attention, BEND BUCKLE AND BREAK AND SPEAK THE TRUTH don't cherry pick facts
Boo played w/concussions -> why he retired early

He was by a lot of us. Not Bern.

AGAIN context matters
see above