Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[bhamill]

Joe said in his interview: "you have to get your employees to want to work."

And somebody responded "That's what the money is for!"

Which is complete f***ing nonsense. Your salary is the bare minimum. If you don't get that, you stay the f*** home. Beyond that, there's a ton that goes into work culture and producing the best results beyond money.

Joe didn't even mention in that quote, by name, Mika Zibanejad!!

I'm responding to general notion on here of people seeing athletes (and workers in general) as indentured servants and you're trying to drag it back to "but Zibanejad was bad and I don't like the way he acted."

It's completely off-topic.

Sorry, but that's NOT what I'm saying. I'm saying Mika quit on his team because of his feelings about how Drury handled players he was friends with. And THAT is not acceptable (to me). In response to Joe's quote, I actually said explicitly that "Pride and the drive to win is what is supposed to get players wanting to work." That their responsibility to the team, teammates and the fans, as well as their self respect, was supposed to be the motivation.... That was my jumping on point in this conversation. I took exception to what Joe indicated as far as what should "get players to work"... And I maintain that. A "mean" boss, that you don't even personally deal with on the regular, doesn't wipe that out. Looks like you are possibly conflating me with someone else. Happens easily enough to all of us.

It doesn't matter. You think just stepping on the ice fulfills a player's obligations (I'm sure that's an oversimplification, and I apologize for that, but don't know how to better put it) and I do not agree. It's all good, we don't have to have the same fundamental outlook on everything, never mind the same less fundamental opinions. I don't have anything to say more than what I already have, and I don't take any pleasure arguing with you for argument's sake bud. I'll leave it be.

 

[n8]

Panarin's money drops in the last season of his contract. $1M base. $7M SB which is not a crazy number. Drury needs to make this deal happen. Panarin gets his contract extension in exchange for waiving his NMC. The Rangers pay the $7M bonus. Anaheim is perfect for Panarin with Quenneville being there now. Quenneville gave Panarin his nickname because Artem Anisimov was called Arty. They can't call Panarin "Arty". It became bread. The Ducks ownership is sick of losing. Verbeek needs to produce. The time for accumulating assets is over. Strome is in Anaheim. Drury and Verbeek have made a major trade involving Trouba.

Perhaps LA becomes an option for Panarin with Holland there now. Maybe Holland hires Woodcroft in LA. The Kings dump Hiller's defense first system. Holland and Woodcroft were together in Detroit and Edmonton. Holland is not on the 5 year plan. He signed a short term deal in LA and he turns 70 later this year. Win now.

Did Panarin like playing under Quenneville and vice versa? I mean, they DID trade him.
I like the idea in general. Anaheim has so many great young assets. They are like that can't hold all these limes meme but with defensive prospects. They essentially gave Thrun away to SJ who still has promise.

 

[NickyFotiu]

If you REALLY think that just showing up and stepping on the ice is doing the job, we have such a fundamental difference in philosophy that its not even worth discussing.

Firing a player for poor job performance/not caring to actually do their job is not an option for an NHL team. If it was he'd probably have been gone by the New Year so they could use that 8.5 million more effectively.

Yes, most of us are talking about RESULTS. Because these guys quitting on the team affects the results. Where did I say he had to be happy? I didn't. If he was unhappy and still went out there and gave it his all, I would not even be involved in this argument. But he (and others) didn't give it their all so results cratered and THAT is why most of us have a problem with it. I don't require that he be HAPPY in his work, just that he actually do it to the best of his abilities, and "quitting" ain't that. If the team and Mika were tearing it up in the playoffs right now, no one would be talking about if he was mopey or not or if he was even openly critical of Drury. Who would really give a f***? We'd probably be cheering him on in it as much as in his play... I'd certainly defend his right to his feelings, I already do, and I've defended him from personal attacks like the "soy" comments . I don't begrudge him his "feelings" or his personal life AS LONG AS HE DOES HIS JOB. It's 100% because of the results fueled by his feelings that we are having this conversation. Or at least that's why I'M involved in this at all.

Zibs and any current players aside if I'm the boss I would say be unhappy on your own time. Be unhappy at home. Don't bring your unhappiness in to the office, on the ice or in to the locker room when you are being paid by us. Nobody likes working with a Debbie Downer. It brings down the work environment morale and often the productivity. If I was the boss I would say either fake a smile at work or go find a new location to work.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Did Panarin like playing under Quenneville and vice versa? I mean, they DID trade him.
I like the idea in general. Anaheim has so many great young assets. They are like that can't hold all these limes meme but with defensive prospects. They essentially gave Thrun away to SJ who still has promise.

IIRC he was traded because of a push from the core to bring Saad back+ they were going to have trouble affording him with the raise he was about to get.

As far as their relationship goes, who knows? He started there, he played a ton from the jump and got a real shot to prove himself at this level. I can't imagine that he harbors any ill feelings towards him.

 

[Cmox]

I mean, I'd do it for Saucy but it's the pick I'm worried about. Does it work with the Rangers cap? Also, does this hold any water?

 

[TGWL]

Yeah, I'm all in for that. I don't even care if McDonagh sucks next year. He's at least likable and I want nothing to do with Soucy. This seems to be a cap move for Tampa, in which case I would maybe ask for something back, but wouldn't prevent me from doing it if they said no.

It also fees like they had absolutely no clue what the plan was when sending out the letter in 2018. I don't believe for a second they had a plan in place and the letter was used to clam the fanbase down from what they wanted to do, and that's get rid of players they didn't feel could win and didn't want to pay anymore.

 

[Machinehead]

A McDonagh-Fox pair wouldn't give up a shot attempt the whole year

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

McDoangh has aged tremendously.

Would be all over that

 

[RangerBoy]

Did Panarin like playing under Quenneville and vice versa? I mean, they DID trade him.
I like the idea in general. Anaheim has so many great young assets. They are like that can't hold all these limes meme but with defensive prospects. They essentially gave Thrun away to SJ who still has promise.

Bowman traded Panarin for money reasons. Panarin was sent to Chicago for Saad who was signed for two more seasons at the same amount. $6M. Chicago felt they wouldn’t have been able to keep Panarin in the 2019 so they re-acquired Saad with two more seasons left in 2017.

There was no adjustment period with Panarin. Quenneville gave a an opportunity right away and he took it. I remember reading Quenneville and the Hawks players hated that trade. Panarin hated being traded from Chicago.

Panarin: Former coach cooked up 'Breadman'

Even in a sport that cherishes its nicknames, Artemi Panarin’s stands out as one of the all-timers. \n\n “Breadman,” or just “Bread,” if you’re into the whole brevity thing, is what the Blue Jackets\u00a0st…

www.dispatch.com

I read Quenneville signed a 2 year deal plus a team option or a three year deal to coach Anaheim.

Panarin has one more season remaining. Only $8M is left on the deal. $7M signing bonus. The Ducks don't care about the cap hit because they have so much cap space and they won't be an upper limit team. The Rangers pay the bonus. He has the NMC. I am assuming Panarin wants to keep playing in the NHL and wants to sign an extension in exchange for waiving the clause. The Ducks ownership is sick of losing. Panarin signs a 2 or 3 year extension to finish his career in Anaheim. Quenneville will be there for at least the next two seasons. Maybe 3.

Panarin with a base salary of $1M has to be worth a lot.

Ryan Stome has two more seasons remaining.

 

[NYR Viper]

I don't like the idea of continuously trading picks, even mid-round picks, but McDonagh would be intriguing. I'd want to re-sign him if he came back

 

[Shesterkybomb]

This guy was brought in because of his intense, fiery attitude. He was supposed to change the culture. He had issues with the young guys in Vancouver not training and preparing for the season seriously enough. Spending his offseason playing golf is not a good sign.

Come on, the playoffs haven't even ended and we're already giving him the eating hot dogs and playing slob ball treatment? He's the last guy I'm worried about coming to camp out of shape.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I mean, I'd do it for Saucy but it's the pick I'm worried about. Does it work with the Rangers cap? Also, does this hold any water?

No draft pick and Im in for a year as well

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Bring Mac home, he fills a couple holes, he's a shut down d, and has leadership qualities that are sorely needed.

 

[bhamill]

No draft pick and Im in for a year as well

We ALL love McD, but as it is a cap relief move for Tampa, I wouldn't give them much more than Soucy. MAYBE add a 4th or 5th rounder.

 

[NickyFotiu]

We ALL love McD, but as it is a cap relief move for Tampa, I wouldn't give them much more than Soucy. MAYBE add a 4th or 5th rounder.

I agree but if they need cap relief do we have to include any pick?

 

[Levitate]

yeah, 4th round pick or later and I'd do it. Obviously he's not a long term solution but he can still play, would help with a lot of stuff

 

[McRanger92]

The Rangers bringing back JT Miller and Ryan McDonagh, with nothing on the current roster to show for the original trade, should put to bed any notion that Jeff Gorton was a good executive for this team.

That being said, both guys can still play at a high level, and McDonagh is jut about the perfect veteran partner for Fox

 

[Levitate]

The Rangers bringing back JT Miller and Ryan McDonagh, with nothing on the current roster to show for the original trade, should put to bed any notion that Jeff Gorton was a good executive for this team.

That being said, both guys can still play at a high level, and McDonagh is jut about the perfect veteran partner for Fox

I think Gorton did some good stuff and got some bad luck but also yeah that trade was complete ass. Even at the time it was like...eh, we were expecting a high end prospect not B lister Hajek and scrub Howden (who of course goes on to be a good bottom six after the Rangers try to ruin him and then trade him)


big oof at selecting Lundkvist and Henriksson with the picks from it as well

 

[McRanger92]

I think Gorton did some good stuff and got some bad luck but also yeah that trade was complete ass. Even at the time it was like...eh, we were expecting a high end prospect not B lister Hajek and scrub Howden (who of course goes on to be a good bottom six after the Rangers try to ruin him and then trade him)


big oof at selecting Lundkvist and Henriksson with the picks from it as well

There was really not a lot of good. The Nash trade, I guess? He drafted terribly and his fire sale trades post-letter, other than Nash, were all pretty bad. Even when he did a good job getting out of the Stepan contract he acquired Tony D and drafted Lias Andersson with the 7th pick. Not getting a first for Zuccarello (another guy who has remained a top end player in the years since, and didnt want to leave). Unceremoniously removing Fast, Staal and Hank from the locker room post bubble playoffs so he could pay Tony D, Georgiev and Lemiuex ripped the soul from the organization that we're still fighting to bring back. EA Sports GM.

 

[Fitzy]

Makes a lot of sense, but I think that price tag is optimistic.

 

[Machinehead]

The Rangers bringing back JT Miller and Ryan McDonagh, with nothing on the current roster to show for the original trade, should put to bed any notion that Jeff Gorton was a good executive for this team.

That being said, both guys can still play at a high level, and McDonagh is jut about the perfect veteran partner for Fox

Drury has a long way to go before I dislike him as much as Gorton.

I think it's fair argument to make that Drury hasn't yet inspired confidence, if you're so inclined, but we're still in a situation where every problem the team has was originally acquired by Gorton.

Except for the Igor deal, and that's one where every GM alive probably does it, so I think that's more in the category of "it's unfortunate/I hate goaltending" than a mistake by the GM.

 

[Mugless]

Joe said in his interview: "you have to get your employees to want to work."

And somebody responded "That's what the money is for!"

Which is complete f***ing nonsense. Your salary is the bare minimum. If you don't get that, you stay the f*** home. Beyond that, there's a ton that goes into work culture and producing the best results beyond money.

Joe didn't even mention in that quote, by name, Mika Zibanejad!!

I'm responding to general notion on here of people seeing athletes (and workers in general) as indentured servants and you're trying to drag it back to "but Zibanejad was bad and I don't like the way he acted."

It's completely off-topic.

 

[McRanger92]

Makes a lot of sense, but I think that price tag is optimistic.

Id be willing to pay a good price if we could get McD and Isaac Howard out of Tampa. Soucy, othmann and a pic? Mayb the Lightning would be interested in zac Jones in a PP role with hedman aging?

 

[McRanger92]

Drury has a long way to go before I dislike him as much as Gorton.

I think it's fair argument to make that Drury hasn't yet inspired confidence, if you're so inclined, but we're still in a situation where every problem the team has was originally acquired by Gorton.

Except for the Igor deal, and that's one where every GM alive probably does it, so I think that's more in the category of "it's unfortunate/I hate goaltending" than a mistake by the GM.

I couldnt believe the people pining for Gorton because the Canadiens got a charity playoff spot( gifted too them by this season's gutless rangers, I might add) and won 1 game against a capitals team we swept a year ago. Gorton and Bobrov are pulling the same shit in Montreal. I totaly agree with you on drury that he's been so/so, but there's some serious drury derangement syndrome among the fanbase. the guy got a 2nd round pick + for ryan Lindgren!

 

[Tawnos]

Zibs and any current players aside if I'm the boss I would say be unhappy on your own time. Be unhappy at home. Don't bring your unhappiness in to the office, on the ice or in to the locker room when you are being paid by us. Nobody likes working with a Debbie Downer. It brings down the work environment morale and often the productivity. If I was the boss I would say either fake a smile at work or go find a new location to work.

There’s some legitimacy to that when you’re just talking about an individual or two, but it wasn’t in this case. When it’s a whole group that’s mad, that stuff feeds on itself until something effectively breaks the cycle. And having something to do it is harder in the midst of a season. An offseason will hopefully do it.

I think naming Trocheck captain when he was trying to take a hold of the team in December and January could have been that kind of disrupting force. Firing Laviolette could have been too. So there were proactive moves that could’ve been made to try to change things, but none of them were tried. If they’d managed to put together a long winning streak, it could’ve happened then too… but this was also just a really bad season for puck luck. There were so many times where a player didn’t score on a great chance where I thought “last year, that goes in.”