Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[RangersFan1994]

Marco Rossi scores a lot of goals between the circles. Judging him on his height and weight just means that you havent seen him play. This is the guy for the Rangers. He checks every box. I hope Drury, Guerin and Sullivan have chatted about him in the USA Hockey group chat.

Rossi and Hartman to NYR would be fun to watch. Hartman I feel is a guy Drury would want. Nasty forward with underrated skill.

 

[NYR Viper]

Rossi and Hartman to NYR would be fun to watch. Hartman I feel is a guy Drury would want. Nasty forward with underrated skill.

That's where my mind goes

 

[Machinehead]

The salary isn’t just so you “show up,” it’s so you do your job. You think if some line cook just comes in and goes through the motions, backs up the kitchen, makes subpar food at a snails pace he’s earning his salary? He’s not. And neither did any player who quit on this team over Drury. It’s not like Drury is in that locker room every day making a hostile work environment, if he was I could understand it, even a full revolt (and prefer it to moping and quitting, at least it shows you care), but that’s not the case. How often do they even deal with him? He made a move they didn’t like in a fashion they didn’t like. Welcome to the real world. My heart bleeds for them.

He did his job. The Rangers pay him to play hockey. He played all 82 games. If they're not happy with the results, they shouldn't have paid him $68m which people warned them not to do.

If they're not happy with the results, they're also free to not put the player on the ice, just like the restaurant could fire that cook.

Nobody was talking about results. We're talking about morale. He's not obligated to be happy because he got paid.

 

[RangersFan1994]

That's where my mind goes

Stramel and Kumpulainen would be good prospect gets. Both centers

 

[NYR Viper]

Stramel and Kumpulainen would be good prospect gets. Both centers

I think you're likely looking at some cap coming back. I could see Hartman being of interest for sure

 

[Guyute]

Marco Rossi scores a lot of goals between the circles. Judging him on his height and weight just means that you havent seen him play. This is the guy for the Rangers. He checks every box. I hope Drury, Guerin and Sullivan have chatted about him in the USA Hockey group chat.

Dude missed hi sister's wedding to train. That must get the JT Miller seal of approval.

 

[McRanger92]

Dude missed hi sister's wedding to train. That must get the JT Miller seal of approval.

I dont understand why the Wild dont like this guy enough to pay him.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I think you're likely looking at some cap coming back. I could see Hartman being of interest for sure

Rangers also can use some young center depth.

 

[Tawnos]

Pride and the drive to win is what is supposed to get players wanting to work. This is exactly the problem with some of these motherf***ers. I’m sure if Drury was a prince and sent each player a personalized greeting and flowers, maybe some Harry and David fruit baskets, on their f***ing birthdays we would have won the Cup… yeah. That’s sarcasm. D’uh.
I’m sorry but that whole narrative is about entitlement. These guys are paid extremely well. Mika is basically paid 100k a game. He’s going to quit on the team, the fans and HIMSELF because he doesn’t like the way the GM handled something? He’s not being paid to like Drury. He’s being paid to play f***ing hockey. Play it, motherf***er or waive your no trade clause and we’ll find you a kinder gentler management team somewhere else. This shit is ridiculous. Hahaha.
Disclaimer: just using Mika as the poster boy. It wasn’t just him obviously. It’s not just a Mika thing.

You are absolutely right... pride, drive to win, dedication to your teammates and the logo on the front of the jersey... these are what are supposed to get the players wanting to want to work (you left out a couple of words). And I think on a certain level for hockey players, those things are the default mode. It's pretty hard for a player to reach the NHL level without them. The problem is that those things don't exist in a vacuum. They are not impervious to everything that's happening around the players, whether personal life stuff or treatment by management or any other factor along those lines.

The part of management's job (I'm including coaches here) that's beyond simply building a roster and implementing a playing strategy is to promote and enhance those motivators. They should absolutely try to avoid damaging them, if at all possible. The issue wasn't that they didn't/don't have those motivators. The issue was they lost those things due to actions taken by management, and then they failed to re-find them. Should the players have been able to re-find those motivators on their own? Yes, they absolutely should have.

There's no doubt that this is a relatively fragile group. It's still Drury's job to know that, and act accordingly. I don't mean coddling. I just mean finding the right path that minimize the damage that would inevitably be caused by moving out two of the players who helped shore up that fragility. That path did exist. Good managers find it.

I know you badly want pay to matter to all this, I don't blame you when you see their salaries, but it simply doesn't.

 

[Vitto79]

I understand but if he could repeat that kind of production at his salary would it make sense to replace him?

Sure but Brodz isn’t taking this team to another level either

How many new Fs are realistic ?
Kreider spot likely then ?
Can’t bring the same team back

 

[NickyFotiu]

Sure but Brodz isn’t taking this team to another level either

How many new Fs are realistic ?
Kreider spot likely then ?
Can’t bring the same team back

I agree but I think the changes need to come more from the top 6 fwds and top 4 Dmen. I think we have plenty of bottom line and pairing guys so they are not my priority.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

If you have any offer of Zib for Rossi and Hartman and Zib agrees to waive you take that and run. Rossi is small but he can be a PITA and goes somewhere most on this team doesn't go, right to the center of the ice/net. Hartman is another piece I think fans will enjoy and is more than just cap coming back.

Then if you can trade Zacha for Kreider the team has the depth at forward as well as many players that can play center (Rossi, Trocheck, Zacha, Miller, Edstrom, Carrick) in the lineup.

Then use some of that cap space to get a LD.

Cuylle - Miller - Rossi
Panarin - Trocheck - Laff
Othmann - Zacha - Hartman
Carrick - Edstrom - Rempe
Brodz/Berard

 

[TGWL]

I don't think the Wild are taking Zibanejad for Rossi. If they want to trade Rossi at high value before signing a new contract, they will most likely want a younger player coming back.

Boston will probably need to add some center depth before getting rid of Zacha in a Kreider trade. And Zacha's point totals will drop in a 3c, limited powerplay role. I think Boston would want an add on to this trade.

 

[McRanger92]

I don't think the Wild are taking Zibanejad for Rossi. If they want to trade Rossi at high value before signing a new contract, they will most likely want a younger player coming back.

Boston will probably need to add some center depth before getting rid of Zacha in a Kreider trade. And Zacha's point totals will drop in a 3c, limited powerplay role.

Boston traded for Mittelstadt at the deadline signed Lindholm to a big contract. They have nothing on the wings besides Pastrnak. I think Kreider would really interest them for his special teams ability and vet leadership they lost with Marchand.

 

[TGWL]

Boston traded for Mittelstadt at the deadline signed Lindholm to a big contract. They have nothing on the wings besides Pastrnak. I think Kreider would really interest them for his special teams ability and vet leadership they lost with Marchand.

And they tossed him at 3c because he was poo poo and not very reliable defensively.

 

[bhamill]

He did his job. The Rangers pay him to play hockey. He played all 82 games. If they're not happy with the results, they shouldn't have paid him $68m which people warned them not to do.

If they're not happy with the results, they're also free to not put the player on the ice, just like the restaurant could fire that cook.

Nobody was talking about results. We're talking about morale. He's not obligated to be happy because he got paid.

If you REALLY think that just showing up and stepping on the ice is doing the job, we have such a fundamental difference in philosophy that its not even worth discussing.

Firing a player for poor job performance/not caring to actually do their job is not an option for an NHL team. If it was he'd probably have been gone by the New Year so they could use that 8.5 million more effectively.

Yes, most of us are talking about RESULTS. Because these guys quitting on the team affects the results. Where did I say he had to be happy? I didn't. If he was unhappy and still went out there and gave it his all, I would not even be involved in this argument. But he (and others) didn't give it their all so results cratered and THAT is why most of us have a problem with it. I don't require that he be HAPPY in his work, just that he actually do it to the best of his abilities, and "quitting" ain't that. If the team and Mika were tearing it up in the playoffs right now, no one would be talking about if he was mopey or not or if he was even openly critical of Drury. Who would really give a f***? We'd probably be cheering him on in it as much as in his play... I'd certainly defend his right to his feelings, I already do, and I've defended him from personal attacks like the "soy" comments . I don't begrudge him his "feelings" or his personal life AS LONG AS HE DOES HIS JOB. It's 100% because of the results fueled by his feelings that we are having this conversation. Or at least that's why I'M involved in this at all.

 

[bhamill]

You are absolutely right... pride, drive to win, dedication to your teammates and the logo on the front of the jersey... these are what are supposed to get the players wanting to want to work (you left out a couple of words). And I think on a certain level for hockey players, those things are the default mode. It's pretty hard for a player to reach the NHL level without them. The problem is that those things don't exist in a vacuum. They are not impervious to everything that's happening around the players, whether personal life stuff or treatment by management or any other factor along those lines.

The part of management's job (I'm including coaches here) that's beyond simply building a roster and implementing a playing strategy is to promote and enhance those motivators. They should absolutely try to avoid damaging them, if at all possible. The issue wasn't that they didn't/don't have those motivators. The issue was they lost those things due to actions taken by management, and then they failed to re-find them. Should the players have been able to re-find those motivators on their own? Yes, they absolutely should have.

There's no doubt that this is a relatively fragile group. It's still Drury's job to know that, and act accordingly. I don't mean coddling. I just mean finding the right path that minimize the damage that would inevitably be caused by moving out two of the players who helped shore up that fragility. That path did exist. Good managers find it.

I know you badly want pay to matter to all this, I don't blame you when you see their salaries, but it simply doesn't.

I agree with a lot of that, bud. If I had a say, I'd want Drury to be more respectful and caring of the players' feelings. Why wouldn't any of us? But him being an asshole is NOT an excuse for quitting and it's a huge sticking point for me.

 

[LOFIN]

Also, if we did sign Sam Bennett and you all had to watch him 90+ times (hopefully!) a year, you're gonna be like "that's it?"

And then people would say he's now part of the country club. This is because you should only spend big bucks on legit stars.

Some team is going to make the mistake we made with Goodrow, but with Sam Bennet. Yeah, Bennet is a much better player. But there is some team out there, that is going to pay him up to 9M dollars if he ends up in free agency. Which would be lunacy.

 

[GAGLine]

Id throw a big offer sheet Knies way if we could move out the kreider/Zibanejad money. Even just to f*** over Toronto with the Cap.

We don't have the cap space to be giving out offer sheets, and possibly not the draft picks either depending on what we decide with the 1st this year.

Rossi is a smaller forward, yes, but he's pretty tenacious. I wouldn't just toss him overboard. Age 23, he had 60 points in 82 games with only 16 of those coming on the PP. He drives offense.

I don't discount him just because he's smaller, but I'd want to be sure that he can still drive offense when things get tighter in the playoffs.

Any extension for Cuylle should be for 8 years. If you're going to pay him more now to save on the back-end, make it 8

Why would Cuylle sign an 8-year deal? 8 years takes him to age 31. I doubt he's going to do that. He'll probably want to be UFA at 28 or 29 at the latest so he can sign another big contract when the cap is much higher.

The more years we give him, the higher his AAV will be, and until we actually trade players, we don't have the cap space to sign him long term, re-sign KAM, and fill out the rest of the roster.

 

[McRanger92]

And they tossed him at 3c because he was poo poo and not very reliable defensively.

They still have him and are on the hook for his contract.

 

[Machinehead]

If you REALLY think that just showing up and stepping on the ice is doing the job, we have such a fundamental difference in philosophy that its not even worth discussing.

Firing a player for poor job performance/not caring to actually do their job is not an option for an NHL team. If it was he'd probably have been gone by the New Year so they could use that 8.5 million more effectively.

Yes, most of us are talking about RESULTS. Because these guys quitting on the team affects the results. Where did I say he had to be happy? I didn't. If he was unhappy and still went out there and gave it his all, I would not even be involved in this argument. But he (and others) didn't give it their all so results cratered and THAT is why most of us have a problem with it. I don't require that he be HAPPY in his work, just that he actually do it to the best of his abilities, and "quitting" ain't that. If the team and Mika were tearing it up in the playoffs right now, no one would be talking about if he was mopey or not or if he was even openly critical of Drury. Who would really give a f***? We'd probably be cheering him on in it as much as in his play... I'd certainly defend his right to his feelings, I already do, and I've defended him from personal attacks like the "soy" comments . I don't begrudge him his "feelings" or his personal life AS LONG AS HE DOES HIS JOB. It's 100% because of the results fueled by his feelings that we are having this conversation. Or at least that's why I'M involved in this at all.

But the conversation that you got involved in wasn't about results. It was the notion that any personal problems a player may have should be overlooked because they're paid a lot of money. That's the idea I responded to.

If you want to bring it back to results, then you're just yelling across me.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Some team is going to make the mistake we made with Goodrow, but with Sam Bennet. Yeah, Bennet is a much better player. But there is some team out there, that is going to pay him up to 9M dollars if he ends up in free agency. Which would be lunacy.

I don’t know about 9 but even at 7.5 it’s loony town.

He’s going to get max term too.

 

[bhamill]

But the conversation that you got involved in wasn't about results. It was the notion that any personal problems a player may have should be overlooked because they're paid a lot of money. That's the idea I responded to.

If you want to bring it back to results, then you're just yelling across me.

I see the conversation as people being upset because he's not living up to his AAV (results). Which is being caused by him quitting on the team. Again, if not for the shitty results would we even be talking about his "feelings"? I know I wouldn't. The feelings are only an issue because he quit on the team. The feelings issue does NOT exist in a vacuum, its only an issue because of the (lack of) results.

You taking it AWAY from results related is just you yelling across me. See how that works?

 

[Machinehead]

I see the conversation as people being upset because he's not living up to his AAV (results). Which is being caused by him quitting on the team. Again, if not for the shitty results would we even be talking about his "feelings"? I know I wouldn't. The feelings are only an issue because he quit on the team. The feelings issue does NOT exist in a vacuum, its only an issue because of the (lack of) results.

You taking it AWAY from results related is just you yelling across me. See how that works?

Joe said in his interview: "you have to get your employees to want to work."

And somebody responded "That's what the money is for!"

Which is complete f***ing nonsense. Your salary is the bare minimum. If you don't get that, you stay the f*** home. Beyond that, there's a ton that goes into work culture and producing the best results beyond money.

Joe didn't even mention in that quote, by name, Mika Zibanejad!!

I'm responding to general notion on here of people seeing athletes (and workers in general) as indentured servants and you're trying to drag it back to "but Zibanejad was bad and I don't like the way he acted."

It's completely off-topic.

 

[Tawnos]

I agree with a lot of that, bud. If I had a say, I'd want Drury to be more respectful and caring of the players' feelings. Why wouldn't any of us? But him being an asshole is NOT an excuse for quitting and it's a huge sticking point for me.

At no point have I said it excuses the players and I don't think many people critical of Drury's role in what went down have said that. Drury created the situation, and then the players handled it poorly.

Most of the argument here has been with the “Drury was allowed to do what he did, so it shouldn’t matter how he did it. He did nothing wrong.” But his performance as GM in relation to the team quitting deserves criticism even if the players do too. If we’re in agreement there, then we’re in a good spot.