Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[eco's bones]

Anyway I read several days ago that Calgary really wants Bennett back. He's probably comfortable returning. It also brings up the issue---do we want go get into a bidding war over this player?

If Drury plans to reshape the team significantly he's going to have to move some players because we won't have the cap space. We might not have enough now just to sign Cuylle and K'Andre. The 4 most likely that could get us some cap space are Kreider, Zibanejad, Panarin, Lafreniere. Or we could move K'Andre too but it means I think in some of these trades if/when they happen the larger cap share is going to be traded for a smaller one. I don't think Drury is going to (like last year) return or less the same team. If Panarin wasn't going into his final year I wouldn't move him at all because basically are offense (or regular season offense) goes through him.

 

[TGWL]

Love this! These are good perspective and why we have back and forth on a value of a contract. Do we call it overpaying for intangibles if for instance a bennett gets $7x7 for his 55 reg season point if for this amount of money you could get 75 points or get a 55 point player for $5m AAV? On the other hand the extra is being paid for his playoff contribution which will fluctuate in terms of points because of a small scope size.

P.S. Its obvious that it is much cheaper to find and pay for these players via drafting than otherwise.

Unless these players are over the age you want to sign, or simply having career years that don't meet the rest of their years... 55 points will get more than 5m, and 75 points will cost you more than 7m.

The hope is you extend players who continue to produce and improve, so you can then say we're paying 7 million here for 75 points. But it's hard to grab current 75 point players and only pay 7m.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

At 28yo, he broke the 50P barrier for the first time in his career. He's a perfect fit for his team, and the team is a perfect fit for him.

He's their 5th F, just ahead of Lundell. And I'd prefer Lundell. In theory, for just one season and no contracts or future considered, sure, I'd take Sam for just this season.

His whole career has been "Middle 6," but in a career year, he's barely above 6th on a very good team. Give him Trocheck's career numbers, and he's that one step up to a bona fide 2C. Track record matters, unless you want to say someone has transformed their game. For me, I need to see more than one season to show it's not a flash in the pan.

I didn't think that was the spiciest take. I dunno.

Give me 48 centers youd take over sam bennett. Theres been absurd takes on this board but trying to argue sam bennett isnt a 2C is beyond absurd

 

[McRanger92]

I'd be all in on Power. He's 22. I can see the Hedman comparisons. Funny enough, Hedman showed that other level during his age 23 season.

Not against it but u saw Hedman in Kandre after the 2022 playoffs. As did Jon Cooper

 

[Boris Zubov]

Not against it but u saw Hedman in Kandre after the 2022 playoffs. As did Jon Cooper

I think K'andre has a big bounce back with the new coaching staff. He was trending skyward under Gallant & the talent is still there.

 

[80s Kid]

This is revisionism at its finest.

Queue the Mikas agent, mother, wife comments.

He may not have been elite but I'd say Mika was a legit 1C for a few years. The problem I have is that he's no longer the same player. Now we have JTM who I would say is a legit 1C but also not elite and isn't young either.

 

[Siddi]

He may not have been elite but I'd say Mika was a legit 1C for a few years. The problem I have is that he's no longer the same player. Now we have JTM who I would say is a legit 1C but also not elite and isn't young either.

Where we disagree is the elite part but fair enough.

 

[kovazub94]

Unless these players are over the age you want to sign, or simply having career years that don't meet the rest of their years... 55 points will get more than 5m, and 75 points will cost you more than 7m.

The hope is you extend players who continue to produce and improve, so you can then say we're paying 7 million here for 75 points. But it's hard to grab current 75 point players and only pay 7m.

It was an illustration about value for intangibles vs reg season production. I agree though - I could've been more precise with $$ vs production

 

[IDvsEGO]

Give me 48 centers youd take over sam bennett. Theres been absurd takes on this board but trying to argue sam bennett isnt a 2C is beyond absurd

I’ll do it once im off work.
Just letting you know it wont be a problem.

(rest to be filled out with an edit later )

Mcdavid
Drai
Mackinnon
Matthews
Nylander
Tavares
Aho
Barzal
Byfield
Stutzle
Jarvis
Barkov
Lundell, A
Miller, jt
Trocheck
Petterson,E
Smith, W
Celebrini
Carlson (ana)
Mctavish
Kopitar
Danault
Bedard
Moore, oliver
PLD
Crosby
Malkin
Protus
Fantilli
Cozens
Pinto
Thompson, T
Cooley, L
Hayton, B
Schmaltz (don’t remember if he played C)
RoR
Donato
Geekie
Lindholm

 

[duhmetreE]

This is revisionism at its finest.

Queue the Mikas agent, mother, wife comments.

Mika played like a 1C in 2019.

 

[Kendo]

Give me 48 centers youd take over sam bennett. Theres been absurd takes on this board but trying to argue sam bennett isnt a 2C is beyond absurd

Go to nhl.com/stats. Select Centers using the past two seasons. 50 have over 100P. Bennet is not one.

I like him a lot in that next group of 50th-80th, though. That’s your 2C/3C tweeners. Middle 6 guys can totally stick on a 2nd line in the right situation, which he has this season. Put him on a random ass team, and he is not necessarily a 2nd line staple.

 

[Machinehead]

I’ll do it once im off work.
Just letting you know it wont be a problem.

(rest to be filled out with an edit later )

Mcdavid
Drai
Mackinnon
Matthews
Nylander
Tavares
Aho
Barzal
Byfield
Stutzle
Jarvis
Barkov
Lundell, A
Miller, jt
Trocheck
Petterson,E
Smith, W
Celebrini
Carlson (ana)
Mctavish
Kopitar
Danault
Bedard
Moore, oliver
PLD
Crosby
Malkin
Protus
Fantilli
Cozens
Pinto
Thompson, T
Cooley, L
Hayton, B
Schmaltz (don’t remember if he played C)
RoR
Donato
Geekie
Lindholm

Lots of CINO on this list

 

[Machinehead]

Go to nhl.com/stats. Select Centers using the past two seasons. 50 have over 100P. Bennet is not one.

I like him a lot in that next group of 50th-80th, though. That’s your 2C/3C tweeners. Middle 6 guys can totally stick on a 2nd line in the right situation, which he has this season. Put him on a random ass team, and he is not necessarily a 2nd line staple.

Half the centers on NHL.com play wing.

 

[McRanger92]

I think K'andre has a big bounce back with the new coaching staff. He was trending skyward under Gallant & the talent is still there.

I hope so. I’m not interested in paying him long term right now with the expectation he finds it. Trending down for a couple years. Show me first.

 

[Siddi]

Mika played like a 1C in 2019.

Mika is 11th among centers in point production since 2019.

 

[haohmaru]

Mika is 11th among centers in point production since 2019.

Clearly not a 1C.

This place really makes me shake my head sometimes.

 

[Siddi]

Clearly not a 1C.

This place really makes me shake my head sometimes.

Yeah, some of the bad takes are really bizarre.

 

[80s Kid]

Go to nhl.com/stats. Select Centers using the past two seasons. 50 have over 100P. Bennet is not one.

I like him a lot in that next group of 50th-80th, though. That’s your 2C/3C tweeners. Middle 6 guys can totally stick on a 2nd line in the right situation, which he has this season. Put him on a random ass team, and he is not necessarily a 2nd line staple.

He's also missed a fair amount of games so using point totals for the season is a little misleading.

While I think he'd be a nice player to have, it's probably going to be too much $$$ to sign him, especially with his injury history. The guy is definitely a 2C though. Knowing our luck the Capitals end up signing him and we get to deal with him and Tom Wilson.

 

[17futurecap]

I could see Miller being traded to Minnesota to go home, his quotes at the end of the year saying he enjoys being a Ranger right now didn’t seem like a guy who was destined to be here long term.

They have Faber and Buuium obviously, but other guys are starting to age out long term for them on the back end. A Faber, Buuium and Miller d to build around is really solid.

Could you send Miller, Kreider and pick 12 this year for something like Rossi and Brodin?

Interested to see the value Rossi has if they don’t want to pay him.

 

[TGWL]

I’ll do it once im off work.
Just letting you know it wont be a problem.

(rest to be filled out with an edit later )

Mcdavid
Drai
Mackinnon
Matthews
Nylander
Tavares
Aho
Barzal
Byfield
Stutzle
Jarvis
Barkov
Lundell, A
Miller, jt
Trocheck
Petterson,E
Smith, W
Celebrini
Carlson (ana)
Mctavish
Kopitar
Danault
Bedard
Moore, oliver
PLD
Crosby
Malkin
Protus
Fantilli
Cozens
Pinto
Thompson, T
Cooley, L
Hayton, B
Schmaltz (don’t remember if he played C)
RoR
Donato
Geekie
Lindholm

Moore played less than 10 games and is 20 years old. Smith has barely sniffed the C position. Protas has been mainly a winger.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Thats what the money is for!

Even Steve Jobs said you cant make someone that isnt a hardworker in to a hardworker.

 

[Filip Chytil]

 

[Kendo]

Half the centers on NHL.com play wing.

For sure. That’s just the broad brush approach. There are also a slew of younger C’s just below him on that list that are about to leapfrog him.

It’s not crazy to say he’s a 2.5C that gets a little extra cred for being a prick.

Trocheck to me is a 2C, and he’s had at least 5 seasons by age 28 better than Sam’s best this season. Plays like a jerk as well (in a good way).

 

[Kendo]

He's also missed a fair amount of games so using point totals for the season is a little misleading.

While I think he'd be a nice player to have, it's probably going to be too much $$$ to sign him, especially with his injury history. The guy is definitely a 2C though. Knowing our luck the Capitals end up signing him and we get to deal with him and Tom Wilson.

Honestly, he jumps from 64th to 61st when changing to P/GP (min 20GP). Not a big difference.

Raw P aren’t even the best metric. Just rounding off, he’s largely a 2.5C playing in a perfect situation for him. It’s not controversial.

 

[Hockeyfan200]

I could see Miller being traded to Minnesota to go home, his quotes at the end of the year saying he enjoys being a Ranger right now didn’t seem like a guy who was destined to be here long term.

They have Faber and Buuium obviously, but other guys are starting to age out long term for them on the back end. A Faber, Buuium and Miller d to build around is really solid.

Could you send Miller, Kreider and pick 12 this year for something like Rossi and Brodin?

Interested to see the value Rossi has if they don’t want to pay him.

Brodin is never getting traded like ever, Brodin continues to be one of the best shutdown dman in the NHL and Bill GUERIN will never pay someone who doesn't play D. They aren't taking on Kreider either as they are going after Boeser.