Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[NYRangers16]

That is why im in favor of the war between him and the organization thats brewing. And if he is content with his responsibilities being cut, not playing him is addition by subtraction.

Management has to win this war or we are f***ed!

 

[bhamill]

There only being a few is literally what elite means. I would say there's probably less than 20.

Yeah I got curious about the term, and apparently the 90th percentile in academia, sports, etc, is generally considered elite. NHL rosters are 23 man, so 736 total. I’d agree with you that 74 players being considered elite is a lot, even if you divide by 6 positions saying 10 at each position are elite seems too high still. Maybe top 5 per position? Even that is 30 players though.
Anyway, not important, just grabbed my attention for a hot minute there.

 

[bhamill]

McDavid
Draisaitl
Eichel
Pettersson
Hughes
Rantanen
Heiskanen
MacKinnon
Makar
Josi
Kaprisov
Fox
Hughes
Crosby
Ovechkin
Matthews
Marner
Kucherov
Point
M. Tkachuk
Barkov

Those are the players I would consider elite, not counting goalies because, you know, f*** em.

JT is a top 15ish center. "Elite" loses all meaning if he's even in the conversation.

Yeah, I don’t consider JT elite. Not this year. But I guess if he hits 100 points again…

 

[McRanger92]

Give the pick to Pittsburgh so we can offer sheet someone

 

[Boris Zubov]

McDavid
Draisaitl
Eichel
Pettersson
Hughes
Rantanen
Heiskanen
MacKinnon
Makar
Josi
Kaprisov
Fox
Hughes
Crosby
Ovechkin
Matthews
Marner
Kucherov
Point
M. Tkachuk
Barkov

Those are the players I would consider elite, not counting goalies because, you know, f*** em.

JT is a top 15ish center. "Elite" loses all meaning if he's even in the conversation.

Having Petterson on that list after the season he just had is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Machinehead]

Having Petterson on that list after the season he just had is a bit of a stretch.

I don't react to one season, that's why Werenski isn't on there.

 

[Alluckks]

McDavid
Draisaitl
Eichel
Pettersson
Hughes
Rantanen
Heiskanen
MacKinnon
Makar
Josi
Kaprisov
Fox
Hughes
Crosby
Ovechkin
Matthews
Marner
Kucherov
Point
M. Tkachuk
Barkov

Those are the players I would consider elite, not counting goalies because, you know, f*** em.

JT is a top 15ish center. "Elite" loses all meaning if he's even in the conversation.

Going by this personal criteria - was Zib elite at his peak? What about Kreider?

 

[Boris Zubov]

I don't react to one season, that's why Werenski isn't on there.

I'd agree, but he's been pretty average since the calendar turned 2024.

 

[Machinehead]

Give the pick to Pittsburgh so we can offer sheet someone

You're cooking.

 

[Machinehead]

Going by this personal criteria - was Zib elite at his peak? What about Kreider?

No. Panarin is the only Rangers forward who qualified at any point since I'm alive.

 

[Alluckks]

No. Panarin is the only Rangers forward who qualified at any point since I'm alive.

I guess I just don't see much of a difference between Zib at his peak versus Jack Hughes and EP40 currently

 

[Machinehead]

I guess I just don't see much of a difference between Zib at his peak versus Jack Hughes and EP40 currently

Even strength, which Zibanejad was never good at.

 

[McRanger92]

You're cooking.

You know me

 

[McRanger92]

No. Panarin is the only Rangers forward who qualified at any point since I'm alive.

Jagr erasure

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Totally amused at the fact that the Rangers got a totally meaningless moral victory in the last game and led to the Isles winning the lottery instead

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

I mean, Borgen as a 3RD is pretty damn good.

Is it? Usually I’d say that about a top 4 caliber player who’s overqualified for 3rd pair like Gustafsson.

 

[Machinehead]

Jagr erasure

No, you're right. It was a short time but he was definitely in there.

 

[Machinehead]

Most people consider 19-20 to be peak Zibanejad. Personally, I don't agree with it. His shooting percentage during that pre-virus stretch was just cartoonish. It was nice but it's not something anybody should ever be meaningfully judged on.

The best Zibanejad is the guy that put up 91 points in 22-23. That year, SEVENTEEN centers put up more points at 5v5.

And sure, I'll throw out Beniers because he was a flash in the pan, Krejci because he was old af, Chandler Stephenson because that was just a WTF year for him, and Nick Suzuki because, idk just f*** 'im -- that's still not top 10.

I think top 10 at your position is a low bar for elite.

 

[mas0764]

Watching a team with a top 3 center and arguably the best defenseman in the game lose to a team without two of it's best players makes me smile thinking about all the geniuses with their GM hats on around here who think having those two things automatically leads to cups and dynasties.

Winning the Stanley Cup is incredibly hard.

Look at Ovechkin. All time goal leader. Hart trophies. Ross trophies. One cup in TWENTY years and he's as generational as it gets.

Uh the Avalanche have a Cup…?

You’re proving our point. It’s hard even when you have greats. If you don’t have enough greats - as we don’t - you basically have zero chance.

 

[mas0764]

Why is "TWENTY" in quotes and capitalized? That's how long he's been playing. And they won with him at (wing).

He's a GENERATIONAL winger, not a "franchise" winger.

MacKinnon is a GENERATIONAL center and he's won one in 12 years, is playing with a guy on a level that the Caps have never had (Makar), and just got bounced in the first round.

Are centers "more important" than wingers in the overall scheme of things? Sure.

The point of my post wasn't to debate the finer points of building a Cup winning team but rather that A LOT has to go right along the way no matter what your personnel is. Look at the Avalanche - two of probably the top 10 players in the game playing a team without two of its best players and their shaking hands after round one.

32 teams in the league. 3.1% chance your team is going to win the Cup. Those are horrendous odds. Look around at some of the franchise around the NHL - Leafs haven't been to a final, much less won the Cup, in 58 years. Canadians longer drought than us. Vancouver, Buffalo, Columbus, Utah/AZ, and on and on have never won a cup. Islanders 40+ years. Detroit no playoffs in almost a decade.

The NHL is a hard league. There's no magic formula to success. A lot can throw the train off the rails. Look at the Rangers this year. Cup favorites going into the season and it was a complete disaster.

If we're talking about center depth, how many teams have Miller/Zibanejad/Trocheck/Carrick level of center depth? And this team couldn't even make the playoffs. Are any of them Mackinnon level elite? No, but two of them have had 90+ point seasons. 3 of them 70+.

Being the last team standing in the NHL is a very difficult thing to do. And, of course, the two times the Rangers have has a 1OA or 2OA they made the pick that every team in the league would've made and end up with the short end of the stick.

The Rangers have a very strong hand in why Kakko and Lafreniere have underachieved.

 

[mas0764]

There isn’t a formula to win a cup but I’d take the formula where I have a legitimate franchise level center above any other options lol

Of which the Rangers don’t have and probably won’t for a while

Yeah there kinda is a formula to win a Cup though.

 

[mas0764]

The people angry with Drury for being “mean” are the teenage daughters of season ticket holders with bedazzled Trouba “New York or Nowhere” jackets. It’s a business. There are more than enough contracts and trades to criticize Drury for. The players don’t get to skate on criticism because they read the blind praise of them on Twitter and Instagram.

It’s all so tiresome. What’s the path forward? That’s what the focus should be on.

Teams need more power in moving players, anyway.

Teams being able to move players is good for the sport.

In all the talk about siding with the little guy against management, setting aside for a moment that the “little guys” make more in one year than most Americans make in ten or twenty years, it’s kinda forgotten that this isn’t about a steel worker at a mill busting his butt and putting his body at risk of breaking down at 50 just so he can feed his family.

This is a game and these players are paid handsomely. The health of the “game” is important or the golden goose goes away. And the sport needs the teams to be able to move underperforming players a little easier. Being stuck with a guy who sucks is bad for the on-ice product.

 

[haohmaru]

The Rangers have a very strong hand in why Kakko and Lafreniere have underachieved.

Kakko has the same stats in Seattle with a larger role. I'm not buying this anymore. He's an effective 3rd line player on a good team, which is fine, but there were certainly higher hopes.

Lafreniere's biggest obstacle is between his ears.

I hope they both figure it out but the longer this goes on the less I blame the Rangers.

 

[mas0764]

I’d trade youth for youth for Rossi. We need a young C

Probably too small for our caveman GM.

 

[mas0764]

Kakko has the same stats in Seattle with a larger role.

It’s too late now. The formative years are teens and early 20s.

It’s not that NO ONE develops after 23 but it’s an uphill battle. The Rangers blew his window.

He maybe was never gonna be Barkov but he should have been better than he is and the Rangers are very much to blame too.