Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[effen]

I'd take the Rangers prospects over most teams because of how many are actual NHLers or who have clear paths. People are still hung up on junior/NCAA hockey card totals.

 

[McRanger92]

It's nice depth pieces,but outside of Gabe,none of them scream high end talent.There lies the problem..A bunch of quality bottom 6 players.Nothing wrong with it,but you aren't contending for a Cup with a prospect pool like ours without high end cheap talent mixed into the lineup

People said that about Cuylle last year and he is tracking to be a top line type player who plays in all situations. Lets let the play and see how it shakes out. A lot of them have clear paths to playing time.

 

[bhamill]

Panarin has 35 points in 46 playoff games. That's not exactly replacement level.

And my point was that they're not particularly close with him, so they would need better than that.

The number of big games Panarin has had in the playoffs and the number of clutch difference making goals/plays can all probably be counted on one hand missing fingers.
That’s why I specifically said he has not been a “difference maker” rather than saying he hasn’t scored.

And I agree, we need better than what Panarin has contributed in the playoffs. That’s my point as well. That task is no where near as difficult as replacing what Pan has brought in the regular season. Troch and Laf were way more impactful, and harder to replace, last playoffs, but obviously not close to Pan in the regular season.

 

[McRanger92]

The number of big games Panarin has had in the playoffs and the number of clutch difference making goals/plays can all probably be counted on one hand missing fingers.
That’s why I specifically said he has not been a “difference maker” rather than saying he hasn’t scored.

And I agree, we need better than what Panarin has contributed in the playoffs. That’s my point as well. That task is no where near as difficult as replacing what Pan has brought in the regular season. Troch and Laf were way more impactful, and harder to replace, last playoffs, but obviously not close to Pan in the regular season.

Panarin's greatest playoff moment as a Ranger was the Game 7 OT goal against PIT and he was completely invisible the rest of the game. Even on the PP he scored he had to be compelled to shoot by the crowd. He said as much himself after the game lmao.

 

[kovazub94]

The reason I'm gunshy about doing short-term roster building right now is not so much "I think they should just tear it down!" You could have that discussion, but ultimately, they're probably not doing that, and it's more fun to discuss targets.

Nah, the bigger reason is that the UFA market sucks an entire butt, so now I have to make trades. I hate making up trades. All of this is fantasy but making up trades is ten times more unrealistic than making up signings.

With a signing, I just have to assume the person signs here. With a trade, I have to assume a return we're willing to part with, a return they're willing to accept, a return they're willing to part with, and a return we're willing to accept, and on top of that the willingness of certain guys to waive clauses and shit like that.

Plus UFA's are obvious targets, whereas there's absolutely no indication the Rangers have even considered guys I would suggest in a trade.

But if I had to do it: I've been thinking about Utah a lot. They were 8th in xGF%. They don't have a ton of talent but I really like the way they play. I like some of their guys.

What's Utah even doing? Are they rebuilding? Are they trying to get better? What's the outlook? This is why I hate doing trades.

I don't think Panarin goes to Utah willingly; maybe you get a third team involved. I would start with Panarin and Lafreniere. Lafreniere will be an unpopular selection but if you wanna say "but Machinehead we're not rebuilding!!!" then my moves have to address that he sucks right now.

But anyway, as far as what we give up, use your imagination.

I'm thinking about three guys. Nick Schmaltz -- I've wanted him for awhile. He scores at even strength. Period. That's the whole explanation. Josh Doan -- drove play at 5v5 last year like crazy. People talk about character and a certain style of play. You've seen his dad, right? Mikhail Sergachev -- LHD with term who's low-key really f***ing good.

Just spitballing here, but yeah. Why Utah? Hate to give you guys bad news but if you want any chance of getting back into contention quickly, which a lot of you do, we have to play Moneyball. We have to find good 5v5 players that aren't necessarily on everyone's radar.

Wait you gun shy because you can't predict what specific trades Drury is able to pull off?

I'm pretty much never try to do this (and I'm only entertained about 20% of proposals because the rest just shows poster's biases, projects, completely unrealistic or the combination of all). But we can surely discuss direction. Let's take last offseason: it was clear that Trouba, Goodrow, Lindgren, Kakko and Chytil had to be moved for various reasons. Purely based on roster accomplishments I can't give Drury anything lower than a solid B+.

 

[effen]

People said that about Cuylle last year and he is tracking to be a top line type player who plays in all situations. Lets let the play and see how it shakes out. A lot of them have clear paths to playing time.

Will Cuylle you could see from the jump had the game to play tough minutes. Adam Edstrom same thing.

You can get Danton Heinen, Daniel Sprong, Ryan Donato types literally every year until the end of time to play soft scoring line minutes. David Perron has been available and farting out 50 points since the Nixon administration.

Just because a prospect has 2nd line upside offensively or whatever the f*** doesn't mean it's particularly valuable. Oftentimes its less valuable than Adam Edstrom having a 14 point year.

 

[McRanger92]

Will Cuylle you could see from the jump had the game to play tough minutes. Adam Edstrom same thing.

You can get Danton Heinen, Daniel Sprong, Ryan Donato types literally every year until the end of time to play soft scoring line minutes. David Perron has been available and farting out 50 points since 1976.

Berard looks like a player to me as well. No idea why laviolette hated him so much. Rangers need to prioritize Perreault's development which is why I think he should start in Hartford. Othmann's eye test was much better than his production imo and he should get a shot in the top 6 to start the year. Honestly sad that so many are willing to give up on him already.

 

[Machinehead]

Wait you gun shy because you can't predict what specific trades Drury is able to pull off?

I'm pretty much never try to do this (and I'm only entertained about 20% of proposals because the rest just shows poster's biases, projects, completely unrealistic or the combination of all). But we can surely discuss direction. Let's take last offseason: it was clear that Trouba, Goodrow, Lindgren, Kakko and Chytil had to be moved for various reasons. Purely based on roster accomplishments I can't give Drury anything lower than a solid B+.

I don't think we have a clear direction, at least not that we know of. It's just "get rid of the bunch of guys most people don't like." There's a lot of recency bias around the current culprits but we honestly do this every year.

It was just get rid of Girardi. Then it was just get rid of Staal. Then it was just get rid of Lindgren and Trouba. Now it's just get rid of Panarin and Mika.

I'm not saying don't get rid of anyone there, but that alone hasn't worked. We need a direction focused on what's coming in.

 

[effen]

Berard looks like a player to me as well. No idea why laviolette hated him so much. Rangers need to prioritize Perreault's development which is why I think he should start in Hartford. Othmann's eye test was much better than his production imo and he should get a shot in the top 6 to start the year. Honestly sad that so many are willing to give up on him already.

What makes Berard so exciting to watch is what made him bad defensively his rookie year - his enthusiasm took him out of position a lot and Lavi was coaching for his job. Don't think it was personal.

If Othmann came up and had 5 secondary assists in 7 games while being lost 90% of the time people would be over the moon. That said, he had games WITH Panarin and I woulda liked to see him do something.

 

[Machinehead]

Will Cuylle you could see from the jump had the game to play tough minutes. Adam Edstrom same thing.

You can get Danton Heinen, Daniel Sprong, Ryan Donato types literally every year until the end of time to play soft scoring line minutes. David Perron has been available and farting out 50 points since the Nixon administration.

Just because a prospect has 2nd line upside offensively or whatever the f*** doesn't mean it's particularly valuable. Oftentimes its less valuable than Adam Edstrom having a 14 point year.

"You need to shore up your depth and role players because scoring is always available" is certainly a way of looking at things.

 

[McRanger92]

"You need to shore up your depth and role players because scoring is always available" is certainly a way of looking at things.

Would you rather overpay for a Goodrow or a Panarin?

 

[effen]

I don't think we have a clear direction, at least not that we know of. It's just "get rid of the bunch of guys most people don't like." There's a lot of recency bias around the current culprits but we honestly do this every year.

It was just get rid of Girardi. Then it was just get rid of Staal. Then it was just get rid of Lindgren and Trouba. Now it's just get rid of Panarin and Mika.

I'm not saying don't get rid of anyone there, but that alone hasn't worked. We need a direction focused on what's coming in.

I think the direction is pretty clear, its Western Canadian style "honest hockey" as a base. I think it'll be a pretty satisfying watch two years from now or so.

 

[Homelander]

Blake is no superstar exec, but he's much better than Drury

 

[McRanger92]

Blake is no superstar exec, but he's much better than Drury

Has Blake ever even gotten to the second round of the players?

 

[NYR Viper]

Blake is no superstar exec, but he's much better than Drury

Expect changes in LA. My guess is Blake decided not to go big game hunting and they lost again. The next guy will be looking to make a swing. Come on down Artemi Panarin to LA

 

[effen]

"You need to shore up your depth and role players because scoring is always available" is certainly a way of looking at things.

Teams score between what, 2.5 to 3.5 goals a game? There's a lot of ways to get there and that's not a real big gap between the bounds. What I wrote is a perfectly valid idea of roster construction.

I'd rather have Adam Edstrom and his projection than, to pick a name from the past, Anthony Duclair and his projection. Maybe Duclair becomes Tony Amonte, but he probably just becomes Anthony Duclair with a lot of variance between the quality of his seasons.

 

[Homelander]

Has Blake ever even gotten to the second round of the players?

Nope, but a better record than Drury

 

[Machinehead]

Would you rather overpay for a Goodrow or a Panarin?

Panarin.

What kind of ridiculous question is that?

 

[Machinehead]

Blake is no superstar exec, but he's much better than Drury

I like Blake. I think he's done some good things with that roster considering they didn't have a ton of high picks.

They keep running into an Oilers team they were never going to be better than because they didn't draft McDavid and Draisaitl.

 

[McRanger92]

Panarin.

What kind of ridiculous question is that.

Homegrow the depth pieces and role players, pay for the scorers. You answered the question.

 

[Machinehead]

Homegrow the depth pieces and role players, pay for the scorers. You answered the question.

You asked me if I would rather have a Hart finalist or probably the worst player in the NHL over the last three years, and I answered that question. Extremely bad faith on your part.

You'll notice that neither one of those worked.

As I've mentioned before, I'll buy the realist perspective of "this is what we're working with, only one team gets to draft McDavid," but like, you absolutely can't blame people for critiquing the pipeline's lack of high-end talent.

 

[TGWL]

I'd give Panarin 20m over watching Goodrow eat more minutes than he deserves,

 

[effen]

I like Blake. I think he's done some good things with that roster considering they didn't have a ton of high picks.

They keep running into an Oilers team they were never going to be better than because they didn't draft McDavid and Draisaitl.

They had a 2nd and 5th overall. Byfield was chalk, Turcotte they galaxy brained at the time and he's been a bust. They also had 500 centers in the pipeline and busted all of them other than Byfield and Vilardi who moved to LW,

Traded 200c on the dollar for PLD only to give him a huge deal and trade him for a goalie a year later. He's been GM for 8 years and been riding Kopitar and Doughty the whole time from the previous administration. See ya.

 

[Beliveau]

I'd give Panarin 20m ...

Yeah, let's miss the POs next year.

 

[McRanger92]

You asked me if I would rather have a Hart finalist or probably the worst player in the NHL over the last three years, and I answered that question. Extremely bad faith on your part.

You'll notice that neither one of those worked.

As I've mentioned before, I'll buy the realist perspective of "this is what we're working with, only one team gets to draft McDavid," but like, you absolutely can't blame people for critiquing the pipeline's lack of high-end talent.

You have to play the hand you are dealt and the Rangers havent been in a position to draft high for that elite talent in 5 years. Lafreniere and Kakko have been disappointments for various reasons. We can blame the player development for some of it but in Kakko's case he kinda just sucks it seems. Maye these young kids surprise us if we give them the chance. Its a pretty young team aside from a handful of guys.