haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Washington has one Cup in 50 years. But, you knew that too, right?
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)
- Thread starter Leonardo87
- Start date
Washington has one Cup in 50 years. But, you knew that too, right?
Riche16
McCready guitar god
Yup I did. I'm 51
I'd rather have pocket aces & lose to trips 50% of the time, than have 2 / 7 & hope for a straight.
That's the line of thinking you're advocating for.
We haven't had "generational" talent since Leetch & Hank in net
Center???? Never (drafted anyway)
I'd like to try that sometime...
before I'm f***ing dead
failure
Registered User
Riche16
McCready guitar god
failure
Registered User
Also the pocket Aces chances are off.
- 92%: Percent of the time that pocket aces will beat ace-king pre-flop
- 81%: Percent that pocket aces will beat pocket kings pre-flop
- 76%: Percent that pocket aces will beat 8-7 suited pre-flop
- 65%: Percent that pocket aces will beat a flopped straight draw
- 61%: Percent that pocket aces will beat a flopped flush draw
- 43%: Percent that pocket aces will beat a flopped straight flush draw
- 24%: Percent that pocket aces will beat flopped two-pair
- 11%: Percent that pockets aces will improve to a set on the flop
- 8%: Percent that pocket aces will beat flopped trips
- 0.46%: Percent that you will be dealt pocket aces (1 in 221 hands)
bleedblue94
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2004
- 8,861
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Trouba's agent is a known mfer to deal with and his agent dominated that whole situation
egelband
Registered User
- Sep 6, 2008
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These coaches…they all have a double-L in their last name. This is the key.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Not a gambler so don't understand the reference, unfortunately.
Sure, I'd rather have a generational center and a 1D. Of course I would. All I'm saying is that there's more to it than that. Much more.
Guyute
Registered User
- Feb 17, 2013
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Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
Are you going to take a break from your unprovoked analytics bashing to talk about how bad Makar was?
Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
UnSandvich
Registered User
- Sep 7, 2017
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Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
How quickly they acted makes me feel like Lavi was always just a placeholder for when Sully was available.
How Sully fits into the type of team Drury wants to build, I don't know, because I have no idea what Drury wants to build.
How Sully fits into the type of team Drury wants to build, I don't know, because I have no idea what Drury wants to build.
McRanger92
Registered User
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I hope Drury wants to build a team without Panarin and Zibanejad on it.
Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
GoAwayPanarin
learn w/ da bern
I think the "you need x,y,z players" to win a cup is an exhausting conversation because more than half the time, you need to go back and retroactively apply a label to a player.
For example, no one on the planet would have tagged Eichel as a true cup caliber #1C before he won - He was coming off of his third straight sub PPG injury riddled season.
The best teams are usually the ones with the fewest holes (that was not Colorado this year and its a point I tried to make several times while they were being glazed by everyone, Lindgren was their #4 and he is legit a guy you cannot win with in your lineup) and players who are capable of playing to a certain level - It's not about a label because it's not always the best guys who come through (see: #10)
Sometimes those guys are elite (MacK, Crosby, Point, M.Tkachuk, etc) and sometimes they aren't (Marchessault, ROR, Verhaeghe, etc.)
The NYR's issue is that they have suffered from pretty much all of the above.
Just using last year as an example - Too many holes (Lindgren and Trouba in their top 4, a 3rd line that accounted for 3 goals for the entirety of the playoffs.)
Not enough people capable of really stepping up and playing at an elite level - If we're using last year as an example, They got more than they expected out of Trocheck, Igor, Lafreniere and some how, a 6 goal run from Goodrow (I will forever be annoyed that they booted Goodrow's output because you just aren't getting that from a 4th liner again.)
The only guy who really performed at an elite level of that group was Igor (whose play in the post season is honestly underrated here. He's levels better in the playoffs than even Hank was.) Trocheck (bordered on "elite" performance) and Laf gave you very strong supplementary production/performance, but everyone else did either bare minimum to carry their weight or were underwhelming, bad or catastrophically bad. Goodrow honestly sucked, but 6 goals is f***ing 6 goals. Thats more than the Rangers got from everyone other than Kreider, Trocheck and Laf.
It would have also helped if our actual "elite" player actually played like one.
tl;dr: "elite" or "generational" labels don't really matter. You need to have quality depth and players capable of stepping up. Rangers haven't had enough of either and it's been both masked by how good #30 has been in the playoffs and magnified by #10 basically turning into a run of the mill secondary scorer in the playoffs.
For example, no one on the planet would have tagged Eichel as a true cup caliber #1C before he won - He was coming off of his third straight sub PPG injury riddled season.
The best teams are usually the ones with the fewest holes (that was not Colorado this year and its a point I tried to make several times while they were being glazed by everyone, Lindgren was their #4 and he is legit a guy you cannot win with in your lineup) and players who are capable of playing to a certain level - It's not about a label because it's not always the best guys who come through (see: #10)
Sometimes those guys are elite (MacK, Crosby, Point, M.Tkachuk, etc) and sometimes they aren't (Marchessault, ROR, Verhaeghe, etc.)
The NYR's issue is that they have suffered from pretty much all of the above.
Just using last year as an example - Too many holes (Lindgren and Trouba in their top 4, a 3rd line that accounted for 3 goals for the entirety of the playoffs.)
Not enough people capable of really stepping up and playing at an elite level - If we're using last year as an example, They got more than they expected out of Trocheck, Igor, Lafreniere and some how, a 6 goal run from Goodrow (I will forever be annoyed that they booted Goodrow's output because you just aren't getting that from a 4th liner again.)
The only guy who really performed at an elite level of that group was Igor (whose play in the post season is honestly underrated here. He's levels better in the playoffs than even Hank was.) Trocheck (bordered on "elite" performance) and Laf gave you very strong supplementary production/performance, but everyone else did either bare minimum to carry their weight or were underwhelming, bad or catastrophically bad. Goodrow honestly sucked, but 6 goals is f***ing 6 goals. Thats more than the Rangers got from everyone other than Kreider, Trocheck and Laf.
It would have also helped if our actual "elite" player actually played like one.
tl;dr: "elite" or "generational" labels don't really matter. You need to have quality depth and players capable of stepping up. Rangers haven't had enough of either and it's been both masked by how good #30 has been in the playoffs and magnified by #10 basically turning into a run of the mill secondary scorer in the playoffs.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
Listen, close to 5 years is not long enough for Drury to really put his stamp on the team and know what he wants to build.
Give it a decade, and maybe he’ll finally know
Why do several of you want to target Hartman as an option?
He’s not young (a prerequisite for many of you) - he’ll be 31 when the season starts.
He makes too much for what he brings ($4M cap hit, Kreider at $6.5 brings much more than Hartman than the cap difference).
He’s a cheap-shotting lunatic (he’s been suspended 5 times and fined 7 additional times).
He’s not good (unless you plan on stapling him to our equivalent of Kaprizov in Panarin, which just means Panarin has to drag another shitter around all game, he’s a ~35 point player).
He’s not a 1-and-done contract to absorb as a cap dump as he’s signed for two more years.
What’s the appeal? Everyone is clamoring to get rid of headcases, dead weight contracts, and underperformers, and want to trade for one of the most notorious of all three?
He’s not young (a prerequisite for many of you) - he’ll be 31 when the season starts.
He makes too much for what he brings ($4M cap hit, Kreider at $6.5 brings much more than Hartman than the cap difference).
He’s a cheap-shotting lunatic (he’s been suspended 5 times and fined 7 additional times).
He’s not good (unless you plan on stapling him to our equivalent of Kaprizov in Panarin, which just means Panarin has to drag another shitter around all game, he’s a ~35 point player).
He’s not a 1-and-done contract to absorb as a cap dump as he’s signed for two more years.
What’s the appeal? Everyone is clamoring to get rid of headcases, dead weight contracts, and underperformers, and want to trade for one of the most notorious of all three?
mrmovies779
The Greatest Teacher,Failure is.
- Feb 5, 2013
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Not sure if Drury has any idea either.We do lead the entire universe in most #5 and #6 defensemen though...guess that's something
McRanger92
Registered User
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Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
I agree with most of this but you still need players that are at a certain level of talent regardless of what you want to label it, especially if you want success to be sustainable.
Like, I'll give you Vegas. Eichel wasn't thought of as that level until after he won the Cup and Stone is far from a generational talent, you're absolutely right about that. At the same time, Vegas faced like .830 goaltending in the final two rounds. Everything had to go right.
To an extent, shit always goes right for the Cup winner, I understand that, but I think people in here harp on talent because they're tired of "everything has to go right" team building. They want the roster to have the ability to sustain multiple cracks at it. You're right the Avs lineup low-key kind of sucks, which I pointed out after the series, but they could find the right mix of depth any given year. It's sustained contention.
I think that's what people want more than anything. I think people have stopped taking this group seriously and are realizing they were never serious. People just want a serious chance to compete.
Also, beyond winning the Cup, I think people are just bored with not having elite players. I was at Yankee Stadium over the weekend. It sucked and the Yankees suck. Still, if I have to piss, I hold it until Aaron Judge bats because I might see him do something crazy. Again, the Yankees kind of suck, they haven't won with him, and tbh he sucks in the playoffs, but it's still fun. I haven't had a Rangers forward I can hang my hat on to be a a joy in my life.
Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
The team getting good again after that is a project that I think is at least a year or two.
Best case scenario, you get a big return for him. It still needs time to cook.
I think they could make the playoffs because the East is a men's league, but this team isn't really in the Cup conversation with Panarin, let alone after subtracting him, which still objectively makes the team worse tomorrow regardless of how you feel about him or whether or not it helps in the long-run.
McRanger92
Registered User
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Miller-Fox
Soucy-Borgen
Jones-Schneider
Vaakanainen
I feel like thats actually not a bad defense if they run a zone D instead of the man on man crap they have the last few years.
Soucy-Borgen
Jones-Schneider
Vaakanainen
I feel like thats actually not a bad defense if they run a zone D instead of the man on man crap they have the last few years.
Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
Soucy-Borgen cannot be a top-four pair. Just absolutely cannot be.
"They were a pair in Seattle!"
Seattle sucks.
If you want to go the route of getting a return for Panarin, upgrading the defense is 100% the way I would go.
If you replace Jones/Schneider with a legit upgrade, and that guy plus the remaining guy is your second pair, then it becomes not a bad defense.
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