Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[savebyrichter94]

I really dislike the fact that if you criticize a player in anyway it means you basically hate their guts, sometimes people rip on the guys they like the most or have high expectations of, my profile pic aside, Fox is arguably my favorite player, I have his jersey and this may tie back into the expectations thing but for me, I just don’t see enough of the guy in this video these days and its kinda sad to be honest, I know there’s been injuries, I know this was from the Covid season, there’s been “noise” around the team and whatever else but man I wish I saw more of those head fakes and keep ins, the way he’s moving and taking away pucks

I know it’s a video which means I’m trusting my eyes and somebody is sure to say this chart or that chart says he’s the same but if you have time I seriously recommend watching just a few minutes of this, it’s long so I don’t expect anyone to watch the whole thing but it’s broken down by situation (5v5, PP etc)

I just feel he has another level he can get to cause we’ve seen it before unless the injuries really have hampered his ability to do so which would be tragic, I really hope he’s able to take his own words to heart this summer and take that look in the mirror along with everyone else and I think he will

 

[TGWL]

I do wonder how accurate those stats are. Guys like Laf and Vince skated faster than Bedard?

Can anyone post the list for defensemen?

The list is simply top speed, and burst categories. It's possible that some players skated at the cut-off speed a lot more than other players who simply had more burst speeds.

Also, Laf's issues are more his first few steps, balance, pivots, and wide ass turns. Bedard never reached Laf's top speed, and had 10 less speed burts from 20-22mph, but Bedard absolutely crushes Lafreniere in the ability to get to speed 18mph, probably because Lafreniere stops/starts are slow, and then when he is skating he stops moving his feet, which we all see and complain about.

 

[Vitto79]

So Sullivan , Torts , Quinn would be something lol

Muse and Peca going to stay is the question if Sullivan is hired

 

[McRanger92]

I really dislike the fact that if you criticize a player in anyway it means you basically hate their guts, sometimes people rip on the guys they like the most or have high expectations of, my profile pic aside, Fox is arguably my favorite player, I have his jersey and this may tie back into the expectations thing but for me, I just don’t see enough of the guy in this video these days and its kinda sad to be honest, I know there’s been injuries, I know this was from the Covid season, there’s been “noise” around the team and whatever else but man I wish I saw more of those head fakes and keep ins, the way he’s moving and taking away pucks

I know it’s a video which means I’m trusting my eyes and somebody is sure to say this chart or that chart says he’s the same but if you have time I seriously recommend watching just a few minutes of this, it’s long so I don’t expect anyone to watch the whole thing but it’s broken down by situation (5v5, PP etc)

I just feel he has another level he can get to cause we’ve seen it before unless the injuries really have hampered his ability to do so which would be tragic, I really hope he’s able to take his own words to heart this summer and take that look in the mirror along with everyone else and I think he will

Fox is out of shape (or not in his best shape if you want to be nice about it) and that made him a softer player. He didn't shoot nearly enough 5v5 or on the PP which is a byproduct of the whole teams mentality of "I want to set someone else up to be the hero". Positionally on D he is still fantastic even for a team with a bunch of headless chickens in the D zone. He's the only guy on the team who can move the puck efficiently. I hope the lessons he took from this season are that he's a leader whether he wants to be or not. He has to start carrying himself like one if he wants to take the next step. No more whining to the refs and quitting on plays when he turns it over. Way too lackadaisical this year. The injury stuff is a crutch. he was injured all of last year and played great.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The list is simply top speed, and burst categories. It's possible that some players skated at the cut-off speed a lot more than other players who simply had more burst speeds.

Also, Laf's issues are more his first few steps, balance, pivots, and wide ass turns. Bedard never reached Laf's top speed, and had 10 less speed burts from 20-22mph, but Bedard absolutely crushes Lafreniere in the ability to get to speed 18mph, probably because Lafreniere stops/starts are slow, and then when he is skating he stops moving his feet, which we all see and complain about.

I understand and I'm not throwing out the whole list but the top speed list had Vince skating 24mph the same top speed as McDavid. I just do not believe that. I believe much of the list is good but I suspect it also has its flaws. I would like to see the list of defensemen.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I understand and I'm not throwing out the whole list but the top speed list had Vince skating 24mph the same top speed as McDavid. I just do not believe that. I believe much of the list is good but I suspect it also has its flaws. I would like to see the list of defensemen.

Top speed without the puck is not top speed with the puck. And lots of guys can skate fast without the puck.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Top speed without the puck is not top speed with the puck. And lots of guys can skate fast without the puck.

McDavid is definitely one of the fastest players I have seen with and without the puck. I have never looked at Vince and said wow that guys is as fast as McDavid with or without the puck. I'm not telling you that you should not believe the list. I'm just saying I do not believe that.

 

[bhamill]

This is a very bad and uneducated take.

Nathan MacKinnon without his 30% from the PP would score less than Tim Stutzle (79) who in his turn would score less than Pavel Zacha (47) without his 30% from the PP.

List of players with at least 1/3rd PP production:

MacKinnon
Draisatl
Eichel
Necas
Point
Reinhart
Guentzel
Matthews

Here is a list of players who all have 1/3rd of their production coming from the PP and would all fall into Kakko production territory without it.

Aho
Barkov
Larkin
Jack Hughes
JT Miller
Bedard
Kopitar
Celebrini

And just HOW does that make them NOT powerplay scoring reliant? Yeah 30% of your scoring on the power play makes your stats reliant on that powerplay scoring. How is this mysterious? Your argument is what?
But of course I did not really expect anything BUT a defense of Zibs from you... You going to try to tell me Zibs had a Barkov or Jack Hughes level season? ahahahahaha. He was awful for most of the season, even when putting up points.

 

[Machinehead]

I really dislike the fact that if you criticize a player in anyway it means you basically hate their guts, sometimes people rip on the guys they like the most or have high expectations of, my profile pic aside, Fox is arguably my favorite player, I have his jersey and this may tie back into the expectations thing but for me, I just don’t see enough of the guy in this video these days and its kinda sad to be honest, I know there’s been injuries, I know this was from the Covid season, there’s been “noise” around the team and whatever else but man I wish I saw more of those head fakes and keep ins, the way he’s moving and taking away pucks

I know it’s a video which means I’m trusting my eyes and somebody is sure to say this chart or that chart says he’s the same but if you have time I seriously recommend watching just a few minutes of this, it’s long so I don’t expect anyone to watch the whole thing but it’s broken down by situation (5v5, PP etc)

I just feel he has another level he can get to cause we’ve seen it before unless the injuries really have hampered his ability to do so which would be tragic, I really hope he’s able to take his own words to heart this summer and take that look in the mirror along with everyone else and I think he will

It's not everyone who hates Adam Fox. Just one person. The same person. I've been here a long time. 14 years. Haven't seen this person have a positive thought about the Rangers yet. Just angry. Always angry.

Sometimes justified. The team stinks. That is true. You don't get to be miserable always and then take a victory lap when the team stinks.

 

[Filip Chytil]

Makar and Lindgren have the same point totals (2 assists) through 5 games. Makar sucks. The Avs should probably trade him.

Makar for Zac Jones and the rights to Evgeny Grachev

 

[TheTakedown]

The Avalanche played last night. Game 5. Down 3-2. Cale Makar. -4 in the series. No points. No goals for Colorado with him on the ice.

Willing his team to victory. Pushing the play. Speed and skill. The announcers talked about it. "Colorado's down by 4 goals, John."

Adam Fox. Can he play this style? He can't. Leg injury. 27. Mike Sullivan. Another Ranger. I hate all of them.

No, seriously, Adam Fox can't play like this. He's never been anywhere near this bad in a playoff series.

Ironically Makar was trash yesterday too

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The Avalanche played last night. Game 5. Down 3-2. Cale Makar. -4 in the series. No points. No goals for Colorado with him on the ice.

Willing his team to victory. Pushing the play. Speed and skill. The announcers talked about it. "Colorado's down by 4 goals, John."

Adam Fox. Can he play this style? He can't. Leg injury. 27. Mike Sullivan. Another Ranger. I hate all of them.

No, seriously, Adam Fox can't play like this. He's never been anywhere near this bad in a playoff series.

But what about the 4 nations tournament?!

 

[DanielBrassard]

Makar and Lindgren have the same point totals (2 assists) through 5 games. Makar sucks. The Avs should probably trade him.

He does suck, especially when he’s not on the ice with MacKinnon. Fox is better.

 

[TGWL]

I understand and I'm not throwing out the whole list but the top speed list had Vince skating 24mph the same top speed as McDavid. I just do not believe that. I believe much of the list is good but I suspect it also has its flaws. I would like to see the list of defensemen.

It's top speed and we don't know when it came. He could have been hustling and back-checking from the goal line to goal line to reach that speed. Maybe somebody leveled him and he went 24mph flying. I'm not sure. I suppose there's some potential flaws. But I won't hold it against McDavid, considering he broke 22mph 83 times compared to Trocheck's 4, while playing almost 20 games less.

 

[SA16]

I understand and I'm not throwing out the whole list but the top speed list had Vince skating 24mph the same top speed as McDavid. I just do not believe that. I believe much of the list is good but I suspect it also has its flaws. I would like to see the list of defensemen.

There is nothing flawed. It's a measurement based off on sensors in the players jersey. Whether or not it's important is an entirely different story.

You can't tell top speed visually on tv. It likely comes from a hard backcheck. McDavid is fast, and looks that fast, because he can do it all with the puck on his stuck and can stop/start/turn very quickly.

A rink is 114 feet long from one blue line to the next goal line. If already at top speed, the fastest forward in the league (Kupari) would do that in 3.17 seconds. The slowest forward in the league (Maroon) would do it in 3.89 seconds. That's a 0.8 second difference at the most extreme. The 25th fastest (Verhaeghe) would do it in 3.32 seconds.

 

[Kupo]

I'd take Laf over Hughes. They're both exciting. They're both flawed.

What are you smoking? Jack scored 25 more points than Laf in 20 less games last year. There's no comparison between them.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It's top speed and we don't know when it came. He could have been hustling and back-checking from the goal line to goal line to reach that speed. Maybe somebody leveled him and he went 24mph flying. I'm not sure. I suppose there's some potential flaws. But I won't hold it against McDavid, considering he broke 22mph 83 times compared to Trocheck's 4, while playing almost 20 games less.

Respectfully I'm not buying Vince at 24mph

 

[DanielBrassard]

Fox is out of shape (or not in his best shape if you want to be nice about it) and that made him a softer player. He didn't shoot nearly enough 5v5 or on the PP which is a byproduct of the whole teams mentality of "I want to set someone else up to be the hero". Positionally on D he is still fantastic even for a team with a bunch of headless chickens in the D zone. He's the only guy on the team who can move the puck efficiently. I hope the lessons he took from this season are that he's a leader whether he wants to be or not. He has to start carrying himself like one if he wants to take the next step. No more whining to the refs and quitting on plays when he turns it over. Way too lackadaisical this year. The injury stuff is a crutch. he was injured all of last year and played great.

Fox had the highest iCF/60 of his career this season at 5v5, that’s just not true that he didn’t shoot enough. On the PP his shot rate was the basically the same as last season. Highest P/60 of his career at 5v5. He whined and complained to the refs, threw his head back in disgust and skated as slow as humanly possible in the past but it didn’t bother people as much because the team was winning games.

 

[DanielBrassard]

There is nothing flawed. It's a measurement based off on sensors in the players jersey. Whether or not it's important is an entirely different story.

You can't tell top speed visually on tv. It likely comes from a hard backcheck. McDavid is fast, and looks that fast, because he can do it all with the puck on his stuck and can stop/start/turn very quickly.

A rink is 114 feet long from one blue line to the next goal line. If already at top speed, the fastest forward in the league (Kupari) would do that in 3.17 seconds. The slowest forward in the league (Maroon) would do it in 3.89 seconds. That's a 0.8 second difference at the most extreme. The 25th fastest (Verhaeghe) would do it in 3.32 seconds.

It’s also just one incidence. Trocheck isn’t on the list when it comes to cumulative speed bursts. So in reality it means nothing except that he reached that top speed one time.

 

[TGWL]

Respectfully I'm not buying Vince at 24mph

I found it for you. Check out that speed!!




/s

 

[McRanger92]

Fox had the highest iCF/60 of his career this season at 5v5, that’s just not true that he didn’t shoot enough. On the PP his shot rate was the basically the same as last season. Highest P/60 of his career at 5v5. He whined and complained to the refs, threw his head back in disgust and skated as slow as humanly possible in the past but it didn’t bother people as much because the team was winning games.

I thought he started shooting more as the season wore on. He didnt have a non-empty net goal until really late in the season. Im impressed he finished with 10 goals. And yeah, people cared less when they were winning. But Fox wears an A, and was another guy unable to rally his teammates that hes supposed to be leading. It matters. And it really mattered this year. I still think he needs to be better conditioned. There are a few young guys who are leaving potential on the table because of that. Lafreniere is another. Kakko was too.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I found it for you. Check out that speed!!




/s

LOL looked more like 35 mph!

 

[NickyFotiu]

There is nothing flawed. It's a measurement based off on sensors in the players jersey. Whether or not it's important is an entirely different story.

You can't tell top speed visually on tv. It likely comes from a hard backcheck. McDavid is fast, and looks that fast, because he can do it all with the puck on his stuck and can stop/start/turn very quickly.

A rink is 114 feet long from one blue line to the next goal line. If already at top speed, the fastest forward in the league (Kupari) would do that in 3.17 seconds. The slowest forward in the league (Maroon) would do it in 3.89 seconds. That's a 0.8 second difference at the most extreme. The 25th fastest (Verhaeghe) would do it in 3.32 seconds.

Sorry I just don't buy that Vince skated 24 MPH. I don't care what the sensor said. I say that as a Vince fan.

 

[Machinehead]

But what about the 4 nations tournament?!

I get that Canada, for better or worse, didn't score against Faber and Slavin, but that game might never be in overtime if Sullivan didn't commit to putting them on the ice to definitely not score for 28 minutes.

 

[SA16]

Sorry I just don't buy that Vince skated 24 MPH. I don't care what the sensor said. I say that as a Vince fan.

Do you doubt pitch velocities in baseball? The measurement is the measurement. It even tells you exactly when it occurred on the site. 11/23/24 @ EDM at 2:25 of the 2nd period. It was on the PK on a backcheck starting from behind his own goal. Does it look to me like he's flying down the ice? No, it doesn't. But I also don't have the erroneous belief that I'm able to discern the difference between 24 mph and 22 mph by eye.

It's a measurement. Previously you've told me "my stats" were wrong because they included counting or calculations. Now measurements are wrong too? For reference, I obviously have no idea what the measurement error/tolerance of the system they are using in but it's surely not in the order of magnitude of multiple mph or you'd see some crazy results