Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[HatTrick Swayze]

I am obviously far from a Drury fan, but I don't get the pushback on his handling of Goodrow.

If what he did was so out of line, why is there a distinction between NMCs and NTCs in contracts? The NMC is viewed as the highest level of protection, for obvious and good reason. They aren't the same thing.

Would it be nice if he sat down and had a conversation with Goodrow about respecting him, wanting to keep him, but the cap forcing his hand, like it appears Brisebois did with McDonagh? I think so, and am certainly ok with the players thinking so.

But to act like this was some slimey deal is pretty out of pocket to me. An NTC is not an NMC.

 

[LOFIN]

I am obviously far from a Drury fan, but I don't get the pushback on his handling of Goodrow.

If what he did was so out of line, why is there a distinction between NMCs and NTCs in contracts? The NMC is viewed as the highest level of protection, for obvious and good reason. They aren't the same thing.

Would it be nice if he sat down and had a conversation with Goodrow about respecting him, wanting to keep him, but the cap forcing his hand, like it appears Brisebois did with McDonagh? I think so, and am certainly ok with the players thinking so.

But to act like this was some slimey deal is pretty out of pocket to me. An NTC is not an NMC.

The distinction is there because most people (including players) view the NMC as protection against being sent to the AHL. They don't think about waivers being used as a way to "circumvent" the NTC. After all, most of the time a player clears waivers.

This is literally the first instance, where it happened this way. So you should not be surprised if there is pushback from the players and agents. For the players, the NTC is a list of places where you don't want to go. Not a list of where you don't want to go but you might end up anyway if the GM is sneaky and waives you knowing that another GM is going to pick you up.

 

[SA16]

The distinction is there because most people (including players) view the NMC as protection against being sent to the AHL. They don't think about waivers being used as a way to "circumvent" the NTC. After all, most of the time a player clears waivers.

This is literally the first instance, where it happened this way. So you should not be surprised if there is pushback from the players and agents. For the players, the NTC is a list of places where you don't want to go. Not a list of where you don't want to go but you might end up anyway if the GM is sneaky and waives you knowing that another GM is going to pick you up.

It should be fixed because it is flawed the way it is now but I would doubt there is too much pushback from the players and agents for something that has happened about twice ever.

 

[Vito Andolini]

Didn't the Rangers at some point at the end of Feb or even into early March have the third best record in the NHL from the start of 2025? Whatever transpired before the end of 2024 had little to do with Lavi and more with just the players or players and Drury... Or are you suggesting making coaching move in March?

I dont remember hearing that stat but ill take your word for it. I do remember hearing that our schedule coming down the stretch was comparatively difficult, which may indicate that we had an easier schedule during that Jan & Feb stretch.

Regardless, my point was that the players, coach, GM...it's all interrelated issues. Our best shot was to change the coach....in December. And there were definitely calls for Lavi to go during our miserable stretch in December.

 

[Tawnos]

People hammering culture are not the ones saying quick fix. Everyone knows it's a culture problem at this point, the players have shared as much without actually saying it. The players are the bounce back group bc they don't want to own the mess and the depth of it. There is no quick fix here unless an asshole like torts comes in with free ability to manage the group but they turn the x's and o's over to other coaches such as peca or muse if they keep them. That actually how torts has coach in phili and Columbus, he switched his role to accountability and player management and let assistants do the "coaching." I know the Cam York jokes will start coming but from the standpoint of culture/accountability/room torts has been successful building foundations, but his teams haven't been filled with good ish players that can make a push. If he were rehired it would probably scare certain players right into line or the slugs would be willing to waive their nmc/ntc to get away from him. There are a lot of reasons to be skeptical of torts coming back, but it would be a good idea if the purpose is well defined. The purpose at this point cannot be simply make playoff, there are foundational issues here that need to be addressed from the ground up.

I mean, think about this list for a second, including trying to remember what led to some of them:

DeAngelo waived and suspended from the team
Andersson going back to Sweden
Kravtsov going back to Russia
First Panarin incident
Fallout from the Wilson incident
Jim Ramsay firing
Prohibiting team social media staff to interact with the team
Handling of the Goodrow buyout
Handling of the Trouba trade
Multiple players publicly criticizing handling of ice time, including one being almost immediately traded on making the comments.
Second Panarin incident

That's all happened in the last 6 years, and I'm not even sure I got all of them.

In the midst of that, you have the team collapsing in the 2020 qualifying round, the team getting absolutely embarrassed in a couple of huge games against the Islanders in 2021, the team collapsing in the 2023 first round, and the team collapsing for basically the entirety of the 2024-25 season.

You might add the Lundqvist buyout to that list, in terms of things that damage the culture. It's a problem, and I honestly hate it. The players are a big problem with plenty of it, but frankly the whole organization needs to be cleaned out and rebuilt from the ground up.

 

[LOFIN]

It should be fixed because it is flawed the way it is now but I would doubt there is too much pushback from the players and agents for something that has happened about twice ever.

The only way it could be fixed is getting rid of NTC:s entirely. You would just have a NMC, or maybe they could introduce a M-NMC, where a player can submit a list of destinations where he cannot be traded to, but he also cannot be sent to the minors/waived without his consent. If you would extend the current M-NTC:s to include waivers for those NTC-destinations, that would undermine the whole waiver-system.

 

[haohmaru]

Drury says he respects those guys, but his communication with them doesn't bear out the claim. I think we could get in a discussion about what is owed from managers to employees in a workplace relationship but, in a way, it doesn't matter what you or I think here. What matters is what the players expect from the front offices, and very clearly Drury didn't meet that expectation while other GMs in similar situations have. Someone mentioned in another comment that this is a different generation of players, and what might have flown 15-20 years ago doesn't fly today. I think that has the right of it.

Yeah, I get that. And, like I said in another post, it's not how I would do things either.

That being said, Trouba didn't exactly have a great rep for working with management (Winnipeg) either so I have less sympathy for him than for Goodrow.

This group was hung up on this nonsense resulting in a lost season for what essentially amounted to two leaders being very overpaid and underperforming being sent their walking paper unceremoniously is inexcusable. Methods be damned, it displays lack of character, lack of leadership and a lack of accountability.

 

[Tawnos]

I am obviously far from a Drury fan, but I don't get the pushback on his handling of Goodrow.

If what he did was so out of line, why is there a distinction between NMCs and NTCs in contracts? The NMC is viewed as the highest level of protection, for obvious and good reason. They aren't the same thing.

Would it be nice if he sat down and had a conversation with Goodrow about respecting him, wanting to keep him, but the cap forcing his hand, like it appears Brisebois did with McDonagh? I think so, and am certainly ok with the players thinking so.

But to act like this was some slimey deal is pretty out of pocket to me. An NTC is not an NMC.

I do think it stays a pretty small level of discontent without the Trouba stuff immediately following it. The players would be like "wow, that sucked and was weird" and that would probably be it. In a vacuum, it's not ultimately a big deal. But then when you put it in context with the Trouba stuff, plus the stuff with the social media team... oh, and the players sitting there thinking "we just won a President's Trophy and went deep in the playoffs"... it all sort of snowballs. That kind of snowballing can happen in any organization and you end up with huge morale problems.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah, I get that. And, like I said in another post, it's not how I would do things either.

That being said, Trouba didn't exactly have a great rep for working with management (Winnipeg) either so I have less sympathy for him than for Goodrow.

This group was hung up on this nonsense resulting in a lost season for what essentially amounted to two leaders being very overpaid and underperforming being sent their walking paper unceremoniously is inexcusable. Methods be damned, it displays lack of character, lack of leadership and a lack of accountability.

Well, part of the problem here is that a lot of the type of leadership and accountability you're talking about left with those two guys. And yeah, that is an indictment on the rest of them.

 

[SA16]

The only way it could be fixed is getting rid of NTC:s entirely. You would just have a NMC, or maybe they could introduce a M-NMC, where a player can submit a list of destinations where he cannot be traded to, but he also cannot be sent to the minors/waived without his consent. If you would extend the current M-NTC:s to include waivers for those NTC-destinations, that would undermine the whole waiver-system.

It can very easily be fixed in exactly the way you say "undermines the whole waiver-system" which actually doesn't undermine the system at all. It's very simple. The player cannot be acquired by a player on his list, without his permission, in any way. It would have minimal affect because we are talking about an event that occurs less than once a year. That's most likely what's going to happen, if they do anything, because they certainly aren't entirely removing NTCs to do so.

 

[Tawnos]

It can very easily be fixed in exactly the way you say "undermines the whole waiver-system" which actually doesn't undermine the system at all. It's very simple. The player cannot be acquired by a player on his list, without his permission, in any way. It would have minimal affect because we are talking about an event that occurs less than once a year. That's most likely what's going to happen, if they do anything, because they certainly aren't entirely removing NTCs to do so.

I don't really understand how it undermines the waiver system anyway.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I mean, think about this list for a second, including trying to remember what led to some of them:

DeAngelo waived and suspended from the team
Andersson going back to Sweden
Kravtsov going back to Russia
First Panarin incident
Fallout from the Wilson incident
Jim Ramsay firing
Prohibiting team social media staff to interact with the team
Handling of the Goodrow buyout
Handling of the Trouba trade
Second Panarin incident

That's all happened in the last 6 years, and I'm not even sure I got all of them.

In the midst of that, you have the team collapsing in the 2020 qualifying round, the team getting absolutely embarrassed in a couple of huge games against the Islanders in 2021, the team collapsing in the 2023 first round, and the team collapsing for basically the entirety of the 2024-25 season.

You might add the Lundqvist buyout to that list, in terms of things that damage the culture. It's a problem, and I honestly hate it. The players are a big problem with plenty of it, but frankly the whole organization needs to be cleaned out and rebuilt from the ground up.

To a lesser degree, Kakko, Jones' and de Haan's comments this season and forcing, at best allowing, injured guys to play. Rotten.

 

[LOFIN]

It can very easily be fixed in exactly the way you say "undermines the whole waiver-system" which actually doesn't undermine the system at all. It's very simple. The player cannot be acquired by a player on his list, without his permission, in any way. It would have minimal affect because we are talking about an event that occurs less than once a year. That's most likely what's going to happen, if they do anything, because they certainly aren't entirely removing NTCs to do so.

I don't really understand how it undermines the waiver system anyway.

I guess you are right. In the end, the waivers were created to benefit the player, not necessarily other teams. It provides an avenue for a player to stay up in the NHL, if his current team doesn't want him. But I guess the player should also have the option to rather go to the AHL team than some other NHL team.

 

[Tawnos]

To a lesser degree, Kakko, Jones' and de Haan's comments this season and forcing, at best allowing, injured guys to play. Rotten.

Oh yeah, those definitely belong on the list. Editing them in.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

The distinction is there because most people (including players) view the NMC as protection against being sent to the AHL. They don't think about waivers being used as a way to "circumvent" the NTC. After all, most of the time a player clears waivers.

This is literally the first instance, where it happened this way. So you should not be surprised if there is pushback from the players and agents. For the players, the NTC is a list of places where you don't want to go. Not a list of where you don't want to go but you might end up anyway if the GM is sneaky and waives you knowing that another GM is going to pick you up.

Not trying to be snarky or deliberately obtuse, placing a player on waivers is by definition the process of offering that player's services to the entire league. Just because it is usually used for the purpose of sending players to the minors, and because most players usually clear, does not change what happens when a player is placed on waivers. The risk of being claimed is there every time a player is waived...that's what the process is.

This was perhaps a unique case because a player's contract had no value across the league except for a team (potentially teams, we don't know for sure) that was on the player's NTC. If other teams not covered by Goodrow's NTC would have taken his contract in a trade, I'm sure Drury would have went that route. If another team was interested in Goodrow and had a higher claim than SJ, he would have ended up there, and potentially this team would not have been covered by his NTC. The stars aligned with lack of trade value, NTC, and waiver order.

 

[ThePeoplesPeople]

Hello friends.

 

[Guyute]

Hello friends.

Uh oh what now

 

[Levitate]

Again, the problems with this group go back further than the Goodrow incident

 

[effen]

Hello friends.

 

[Guyute]

Again, the problems with this group go back further than the Goodrow incident

Yup

Canes play-in series in 2020 was a disgrace. So was loss to the Devils. The core chooses to play a style that won’t work in the playoffs.

 

[ThePeoplesPeople]

Uh oh what now

Not great ... lol

 

[will1066]

Not great ... lol

I can't...

 

[LOFIN]

OH f*** RIGHT OFF

 

[will1066]

 

[Levitate]

ahahah I love it