Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVIII

[NYR Viper]

Will never happen while ruff is here

Weren't there rumors of Arniel not getting along with Brassard, and ten he came to NY and thrived?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Weren't there rumors of Arniel not getting along with Brassard, and ten he came to NY and thrived?

Yes but brass was here before arneil and didn’t leave the country while under contact because of him.

 

[nyr__1994]

Pesce for Kreider

Who adds?

 

[East Coast Bias]

I feel like people have been wanting Nichushkin for like 5 years. This is his year!

Maybe he's not that good?

 

[haveandare]

Pesce for Kreider

Who adds?

I add my tears.

Would not do that personally.

 

[NYR Viper]

I feel like people have been wanting Nichushkin for like 5 years. This is his year!

Maybe he's not that good?

I'm not saying he is going to set the world on fire, but if he turns into a 30 point depth winger, is that not more valuable, given his contract length, then Smith

 

[BringBackLibertys]

I'm not saying he is going to set the world on fire, but if he turns into a 30 point depth winger, is that not more valuable, given his contract length, then Smith

The problem here is the IF, "if he turns into a 30 point depth winger", my response would be no, if Smith turns back into the Smith we had on the playoff run. I am not saying no to the trade, I am saying both players are not what the "ifs" make them out to be. I think it is garbage for garbage on this one. That being said, who has a shorter contract? That is who I want.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Pesce for Kreider

Who adds?

Them.

And alot.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I don’t think the hockey media has yet to grasp what the Rangers are doing. And I think that confusion filters into the fanbase. I’m going to sound arrogant here, but, I don’t think the average Ranger fan goes over these moves in the manner a lot of us do here. Only you and @Amazing Kreiderman could walk around on draft day understanding why Kravtsov was an excellent pick. A lot of Ranger fans wanted to use up the new cap space by pursuing Tavares. Even the hockey observers on NHLNetworkRadio thought for sure Gorton would go after Karlsson.

I think that is partially because the Rangers don't even know what the Rangers are doing. Which, that isn't a bad thing. I would prefer an approach that constantly reassess things vs. an approach that picks a direction and sticks with it, changes be dammed.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Them.

And alot.

I think Carolina's defensemen are disgustingly overrated.

*waits for people to come at me with pitchforks*

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think Carolina's defensemen are disgustingly overrated.

*waits for people to come at me with pitchforks*

All of them except Slavin, who is a monster.

 

[Gardner McKay]

All of them except Slavin, who is a monster.

I think Slavin is also overrated. He is good, but overrated.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I think that is partially because the Rangers don't even know what the Rangers are doing. Which, that isn't a bad thing. I would prefer an approach that constantly reassess things vs. an approach that picks a direction and sticks with it, changes be dammed.

I think the results of the draft lottery will kind of push them down the path they’re going to take

 

[Kupo]

The Rangers are approaching one championship in 80 years. That does not happen by accident. A lot of incompetence is required.

We're ****ing pathetic. This is why I want Hayes, and the rest of our vets shipped off. It's something we really have never done before. It's a different strategy and, what do we have to lose? Nothing.

I'm a huge fan of Kreider, but he's another guy that I wonder about. He has 1 year left. He's going to want a raise. 7X7? Is he worth that? He'll be 28 in April. His next contract will take him into his mid-30's. Kreider will age well, in my opinion. But that doesn't change the fact that re-signing him is the type of mentality this organization has had, since forever.

What if Gordon moves Kreider, Hayes, Zucc, and McQuaid? You combine those future assets with what Gordon has acquired over the last 2 years. That's a full tank move; one I would support.

Aside for Lias, Gordon's picks have been home runs. He's tried to trade up as well. He knows we need elite talent.

 

[Edge]

I think that Krieder’s reputation is bigger than his results, Perhaps Carolina agrees with me.

He is reasonably priced for the next year and a half.

I think it's also his role on the team and that this team doesn't exactly have many robust prospects on the wings right now. So it becomes one of those weird situations where his value to the Rangers is higher than the results would likely lead one to believe.

But you start talking a package with Necas and Fox, and maybe you have the beginnings of an interesting conversation.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think that is partially because the Rangers don't even know what the Rangers are doing. Which, that isn't a bad thing. I would prefer an approach that constantly reassess things vs. an approach that picks a direction and sticks with it, changes be dammed.

I agree with this and is really a better worded version of the point I was trying to make on the last page.

The fire sale of 2018 was not something that they had in the books. This team was hoping to be some what competitive. Thats the one point that makes me a bit skeptical of how serious and "all in" they are with this rebuild. Perhaps they realized that they were much worse than they anticipated and decided this was the way to go, but I also feel like they're looking for every excuse to cut this rebuild short - If they're within range this February I believe that they'll move Hayes and then follow up with other moves to "go for it." They still be net positive in terms of young assets received, but it won't be what it should be.

Hayes has likely priced his way out of NY, they'll do well there. Zucc should be as well and he very well may be, but this team has a habit of falling in love with the wrong guys, or the right guys at the wrong time. Freidman's comments have be a bit uneasy (even if it sounded more speculative than actual fact) because he knows whats up.

If they extend Zucc, this rebuild is doomed to fail. It's a move that signals a half-assed approach (along with extending a declining player, which we've suffered through enough) which never works.

 

[Edge]

I have to admit, I don't think the Rangers are confused as to what they're doing. Now, whether their approach works or not is another discussion.

But I really don't get the impression they're playing it by ear, as much they're not looking to make moves for the sake of making moves. Gorton, for better or worse, plays the game very methodically and calculated.

I said it before, and I think it bears repeating, but I think the fans probably have more debates about the direction of the franchise than the front office. I think a number of guys are likely trade components and I think this team understands that this is going to be a multi-year process.

I don't think anything ever changed for them, not when this team was overachieving and some people were jumping the gun, and not when this team is struggling and people are growing frustrated. I honestly do not believe the ebb and flow of the season has impacted the team's thought process and approach at all.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Ron Duguay, Alexei Kovalev, Chris Kreider.

Kreider is not in the conversation with Duguay and Kovalev was what Panarin is now, just about as inconsistent as Kreider is now.

 

[Mikos87]

Carolina fans would go nuclear on us if we mentioned Necas for Kreider, but I agree that he's the type of return it'd take to move Kreids.

I'm not going to get into the whole disappearing act thing with Kreids - I think it's an issue that was real earlier in his career which gets blown out of proportion today. NHL players are streaky, idk why we expect any different from the majority of our guys.

I'd prefer Meier over Tuch, but why does San Jose do that? Meier is their best chance at still having a useful piece five years down the road once the wheels finally fall off of Couture, Pavelski, and Jumbo.

Depends on the return. Fast and Names strike me as two guys that are worth way more to the organization than in a trade, especially Jesper Fast. I'd be fine moving Vesey, but what is he realistically worth?

I don't think Vegas would trade Tuch either. But that would be a hockey deal instead of a futures deal. Vesey will get you 2nd and cap space. Minor as it may be. If Jimbo goes on a nice run and breaks 25.... then you're talking two 2nds or a 2nd and a 3rd. I think he's very replaceable.

Names I would want to trade because his value relative to his cap hit is not a great one, but he's a good utility guy that can play. We saw a 30 game stretch of the worst he's got, and maybe 15 of what he can be while fully engaged. I would be in favor of moving him out just to clear space.

 

[nyr__1994]

So what you guys are saying is I should offer up Kreider for Slavin and then proceed to get run off of their board.....

 

[Gardner McKay]

I have to admit, I don't think the Rangers are confused as to what they're doing. Now, whether heir approach works or not is another discussion.

But I really don't get the impression they're playing it by ear, as much they're not looking to make moves for the sake of making moves. Gorton, for better or worse, plays the game very methodically and calculated.

I said it before, and I think it bears repeating, but I think the fans probably have more debates about the direction of the franchise than the front office. I think a number of guys are likely trade components and I think this team understands that this is going to be a multi-year process.

I don't think anything ever changed for them, not when this team was overachieving and some people were jumping the gun, and not when this team is struggling and people are growing frustrated. I honestly do not believe the ebb and flow of the season has impacted the team's thought process and approach at all.

I do believe they are taking a wait and see approach. I also believe you are correct, they are not making moves for the sake of making moves, nor should they be. That is how you end up making a really bad deal.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I think it's also his role on the team and that this team doesn't exactly have many robust prospects on the wings right now. So it becomes one of those weird situations where his value to the Rangers is higher than the results would likely lead one to believe.

But you start talking a package with Necas and Fox, and maybe you have the beginnings of an interesting conversation.

There's another element here that gets overlooked, and it's appearance. Back when Callahan was here, game after game, posters would vote Callahan one of the third stars, because "he set an example", because he'd block a shot or throw a hit. And yet, the analytics would show that he wasn't making a positive impact on the game. Meanwhile , Kreider on nightly basis has a positive impact on his line, drives possession and the Rangers are a better team when he's in the lineup, but, he's considered a "no-show" or "invisible.

 

[Edge]

I do believe they are taking a wait and see approach. I also believe you are correct, they are not making moves for the sake of making moves, nor should they be. That is how you end up making a really bad deal.

Someone mentioned earlier (or in another thread) that Zucc was almost traded last season and they were confused as to why he wasn't traded over the summer or this season. The simple answer is because the market changes, offers are withdrawn or amplified, and the whole process is filled with pauses, starts, false starts, etc.

Gorton knew the market at the TDL last year. He did his homework and knew what was in play and what wasn't in play. I firmly believe that.

I think his approach is the same this season. When the time comes, he will know what the market is for Hayes, Zucc and others. I can almost guarantee people that if the right deal was on the table today, he would make his moves. I would venture a guess that Gorton not pulling the trigger is market-driven and has little or nothing to do with him second-guessing his approach.

 

[Kovalev27]

I think Carolina's defensemen are disgustingly overrated.

*waits for people to come at me with pitchforks*

Completely agree

 

[Off Sides]

I wish I was as confident about the Rangers not changing approaches, I am cynical by nature yet I can not imagine them being patient for two or three straight years. Like Go Away Staal said above, if it had not been for some of the contradicting moves made, buyout Girardi, trade Stepan, sign Shattenkirk, Smith and even the McQuaid trade I'd feel more confident. Even before that, the E Staal rental in particular.

I feel as if the teams record last season dictated their moves, I feel had this season kept going well or if it turns around for some reason, that will change their approach. If all those moves were Sather and friends ideas and Gorton was not acting autonomously, I'd probably understand it but I am not so sure that is the case.

I am also not sure why there seems to have been such a hurry to get Howden, Chytil, Lias, Georgiev into the NHL this season. As injury call ups I would see that as something that jives with a patient rebuild approach but removing a RFA year from Chytil and Lias, it kind of to me seems like it lends itself to they are trying to accelerate this.