The players are not innocent, but I truly don’t know how you can say Lavi and Housley at the very least haven’t been huge problems.
Roster Building Thread : Part XVIII ( TDL is March 7th)
- Thread starter Leonardo87
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your no vote acknowledged, still disagree
Rantanen is older, not inexpensive/younger, so that checks out
Schneider, who is the core piece, is still young enuf to be considered youth, so this is largely youth for youth.
And I heard how there is now concern to be prepared if Doughty immediately falls off a cliff
you have no quality young RD besides Spence + Clarke who are ready enuf to step in now
Schneid solves probs, if you want that, you have to pay
sell high, I'm saying it, you are wrong, just b'c you don't get the concept does not mean it is wrong.
Sell high means move an asset before it's value declines so you get better return now than later compared to anticipated decline later.
It would be wrong to think that Fox's skating won't decline as he ages and over 4 or so yrs balance on his current deal, he is worth keeping given some teams who are looking at immediate now will pay top top $.
But there is also the opportunity cost of what you get, which I agree is not a known commodity.
But what is known is you must deal vets to have ample quality youth = depth in salary cap era
Finally as to "Get some talent, don't trade it away." we all want something for nothing, or at least a steal approaching a flat out swindle.
But usually, you have to give to get, so what you said, on its face, sorry, does not add up.
EB thanks for constructive feedback. My reply
Special retire deal with Kreider? WTF is that? I think we need some detail on that.....keeping in mind we don't get to make up our own rules.
I said up front I wasn't sure, but I do believe it is true that if a guy actually retires due to injury, and as I specified, he isn't immediately playing with anyone, that is dif than a standard buyout, where the player bought out CAN resume his non-injured career. I am sure there is likely some waiting period required by the league (1 yr?) in case the player can and then wants to 'unretire'.
But I think in some variation protocol for this exists.
Would be shocked if no dif from forced retirements and ordinary buyouts
The Rangers don't have control over their 2025 first rounder or at least for now.
Yes, but way things are going we may finish 10th or so in which case we (should) keep the pick.
Benoit Allaire retired. Jeff Malcolm is the Rangers new goalie coach.
I am aware of this.
I am also understanding that while no more everyday supervising, BA is keeping one eye on JM for the time being.
1) Drury doesn't make that deal and neither does Chicago's GM.
Both would be foolish not to.
CHI needs competitive play before contending.
A McD/LeoDrai/Matthews/MacKinnon dif maker F is not available, and even if yes, would cost more than 11.5 and can't give 8 primo yrs as they are exiting prime.
Igor is fastest way to turn some CHI losses into wins and keep Bedard happy. Also Berard would fit nicely as his W
2) L.A. definitely does not do that. You're overrating a number of players here and underrating Byfield.
Disagree.
How fast can Ks acquire/develop a high end young RD while keeping Clarke/Spence?
Doughty is way OLD. borrowed time stopgap? possibly. Need to get actual righty RD to replace? yes, for sure
In that context, the underrated Schneider is a primo get, and given their immediate pivot situation permits it, they do this deal
Drury would be stupid to turn down Byfield, who has not run away with it all/been dominant. But he shows enuf to be a 1C.
3) don't see this happening either.
If that is bread for Bisch , that SHOULD happen
agree on axing coach Lav, and hold off on Drury, for now
if we unloaded enuf vets and got enuf quality youth and guys like Garand [reinforced], while not Igor can play well enuf, we can be middle of the pack or better, like 18OA, in 2026.
Is 2026 18OA better than like 10OA 2025? possibly. But remember also, you wait an extra yr for that pic to develop.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
me reading HF
as someone who is totally down with trading fox (i straight up dislike him personally) i’d say you’re talking out of your ass here
Harbour Dog
Registered User
I'm not saying that.
I just want us to take whatever path leads to the players being held maximally accountable. If we empty out the management and coaching again, then we get a whole new wave of "Well let's see what they can do under coach X" and "Maybe GM Y can bring in the proper pieces to get these guys to click better."
I'm done with any of that. This core needs to be completely flushed. Once we've established that that's happening, then sure; fire everybody.
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Step 1 - Kreider would have to retire. If he doesn't retire, NY can't just get out of his cap and can only use it should they go over. Most teams that have a player out all season try and trade these contracts to teams that need to reach the floor.
Trade 1: We're not getting out of this. And Chicago isn't giving up 2 unprotected 1st. They currently have the 2nd overall pick. There is no GM doing that for a goalie making 11.5m and struggling. Goalies don't have that value. Not sure what you mean by return NYR 2025 1st. We're giving them the 2025 1st? A bit weird that you put it on their side of the trade like they're giving us our 2025 1st..
Trade 2: Byfield is starting to play great for LA. They're aren't doing this trade. You're getting way too much from them.
Trade 3: Cap is very real within the NHL. Dallas just landed and extended Rantanen and signed Wyatt Johnston long term. Right now Dallas is concerned with making the cap work next season. They're probably one of the last teams trading for Panarin. Re-signing Duchene is a bigger fit for them.
Rangers can't magically pick their roster and get whatever players they want. These trades do nothing for the other team. I won't even go into the Carrick 2RW spot...
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McRanger92
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The Rangers are going to waive Kreider if they can't trade him. You don't have to like it, but accept it. Drury is the only guy who has the sack to do that to a respected vet, which is why he isn't getting fired imo.
Shesterkybomb
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I trust that this GM isn't capable of building a winning hockey team so I'll take the field on that wager
I am actually more upset with last night's loss than the previous debacle against Calgary. The talent gap between the Leafs and the Rangers is staggering. What is upsetting is that I just don't see a way for us to close the gap over the next few years realistically.
But, there are ways of being competitive when you don't have the skills to match the elite teams.
You need a defensive head coach first and foremost, who will install a system and make players defensively accountable, not only the actual D but the forwards. That coach is not Lavy. I don't know who it is, or who is out there, but continuing with our current coaching staff is not going to cut it.
We must be a hard-nosed, hard-working team. We know there are teams out there known for their work effort. That is not the current group. It does mean, younger, hungry players. We don't have many, but they must play bigger roles. Any moves we make must be to bring in this kind of player.
I've come to the opinion that we must cut back to the bone. Not easy to do with the Zib, CK, Panarin contracts. Frankly, to me the only untouchables on the team or Shesty and Cuylle. I guess Perrault should be included. I'm willing (easy for me to say) to get rid of everyone else, including Fox.
I fear, unless there is a drastic overall, we are in for a few really hard years.
But, there are ways of being competitive when you don't have the skills to match the elite teams.
You need a defensive head coach first and foremost, who will install a system and make players defensively accountable, not only the actual D but the forwards. That coach is not Lavy. I don't know who it is, or who is out there, but continuing with our current coaching staff is not going to cut it.
We must be a hard-nosed, hard-working team. We know there are teams out there known for their work effort. That is not the current group. It does mean, younger, hungry players. We don't have many, but they must play bigger roles. Any moves we make must be to bring in this kind of player.
I've come to the opinion that we must cut back to the bone. Not easy to do with the Zib, CK, Panarin contracts. Frankly, to me the only untouchables on the team or Shesty and Cuylle. I guess Perrault should be included. I'm willing (easy for me to say) to get rid of everyone else, including Fox.
I fear, unless there is a drastic overall, we are in for a few really hard years.
Feels like lots of dark times and uncompetitive hockey await in near future and years....I really hope I am somehow wrong but it just seems like that's the only outcome here.
A trade (or three) isn't going to fix things.
A trade (or three) isn't going to fix things.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
In your scenario, how is Drury’s inability to get something of value for what is very clearly a middle 6 winger in a trade a testament to him not being fired?
If the whole Kreider ordeal ends with them waiving him, Drury should be fired on the spot and hung from the rafters
I guess we're kind of in agreement, but this entire paragraph is basically saying that. Every defenseman on the team has gotten worse under Housley (the forwards have gotten worse defensively too) and if Lavi were as smug as AV and Gallant he'd be despised as much as they were by the time they were fired.
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We've had 1 cup in almost 85 years. 1 cup since day light savings time was a thing. Whatever this team does likely won't work anyway. It's hard to win.
But it shouldn't be hard to compete.
But it shouldn't be hard to compete.
Shesterkybomb
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They shouldn't have any problem trading Kreider. Mtl would take him in a heartbeat, same with Vancouver, Utah, Seattle etc
The Crypto Guy
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Still has a 15 team NTC, i;m sure all those teams are on it, or at least 3 of the 4.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
me reading HF
100%. kreider is going to make it as difficult as possible for us to trade him most likely
the constructive feedback is appreciated.
Kreider: yes, he retires. The door is actually and firmly closed for now. The only variable, I am pointing out, is b'c retirement is forced due to current injury, LATER he MAY wish to unretire IF he is THEN sufficiently healthy.
All of this would have to be as per league rules...
Trade 1: We're not getting out of this. And Chicago isn't giving up 2 unprotected 1st. They currently have the 2nd overall pick. There is no GM doing that for a goalie making 11.5m and struggling. Goalies don't have that value. Not sure what you mean by return NYR 2025 1st. We're giving them the 2025 1st? A bit weird that you put it on their side of the trade like they're giving us our 2025 1st..
when I have time I will have to reassess if this is too much from them
BUT
the premise is correct, Igor would be fastest way for CHI to start getting wins
And I disagree as to "Goalies don't have that value"
Trade 2: Byfield is starting to play great for LA. They're aren't doing this trade. You're getting way too much from them.
The deal is basically a core of Schneider and Byfield
actual young quality RDs are in extreme short supply, Doughty hanging by a thread
they want to pay less, but they SERIOUSLY consider this
Trade 3: Cap is very real within the NHL. Dallas just landed and extended Rantanen and signed Wyatt Johnston long term. Right now Dallas is concerned with making the cap work next season. They're probably one of the last teams trading for Panarin. Re-signing Duchene is a bigger fit for them.
agree cap super tight
still think the numbers can do max retained bread
this is 1 yr only rental, not extended
even if not, I can see a 3rd team like ANA eating couple of mil on Panarin for the 1 yr for a 5th or a 4th or something we can live with
SA16
Sixstring
The Rangers may not be able to waive Kreider considering he has a NMC for his entire contract per CapWages (different on PuckPedia so who knows which is correct). CapFriendly listed him with a NMC for the whole deal and a modified NTC the last 3 years so I'm assuming that's correct.
The Crypto Guy
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McRanger92
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They won the President's Trophy last year. This season was a disappointment but the woe is me stuff from Rangers fans is part of this culture too. We have no patience and are not owed anything just because the team has been around longer than most. Move on from the vets who have been here 7, 8, 9+ years and haven't gotten it done. The younger part of the roster is absolutely salvageable. We'll compete next year as long as this loser mentality is done away with.
McRanger92
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Maybe because other team's see that Kreider is either hurt, milking an injury or in all likelihood a combo of both. He's a one dimensional, aging PP specialist. I hope some team wants him but if no one does it's addition by subtraction to take the 6.5 mil in cap space and move on. It doesn't matter to me who the GM is, that's how they should approach it.
FoxysExpensiveNYDigs
Boo Nieves Truther
I would love nothing more than seeing Habs fans endure Kreider after STILL blaming him for the Price injury.
DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
I truly don’t see a way out of this mess without tearing this shit down. Trade Panarin or let him walk, fine. Who’s replacing him? Trade Kreider, fine. Trade Fox, fine. Good luck replacing him. You can’t just make one or two trades, it almost has to be everybody at this point. They weren’t good enough when the players were younger and better. Just reaplcing Panarin or Kreider or Fox isn’t going to be enough. The prospect pool sucks, the current defensive roster is terrible, the goaltender is making 11.5M for the next 8 years and is turning 30 during the first year of his contract.
This team is in a world of trouble.
