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Roster Building Thread : Part XVIII ( TDL is March 7th)

will1066 said:
They're in a bind with Panarin. He's simultaneously the best offensive threat and the biggest culprit in terms of affecting the no-accountability culture. To be able to pot 30 goals while playing like crap overall is pretty miraculous. How do you replace those goals is a legit question asked by many. But as long as he gets a free pass to turn over the puck all over the ice, nothing will change.
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It’s two fold on the scoring front when you add in Kreider probably being out the door.

Replacing 60-70 goals is going to be close to
Impossible in one offseason if they move both of them
 
bhamill said:
Even Kakko. 23pts in 36 games for Seattle, getting an average of about 30% more ice time, doesn't make me think that wasn't a win for us so far. I mean he has gone from 2.1 pts/60min with us to 2.16 with Seattle... I'm certainly not anti Kakko, but he hasn't taken a step with Seattle, he's just playing more.
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Considering how I was a big believer that he just needed more time, it doesn’t surprise me.
 
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TGWL said:
We had a surplus of prospects. Having a surplus of other prospects doesn't mean anything would have changed. We could have used a lot of other players and different players. But now we're just saying "If we had this player, that player, and whoever else, we'd be better". There's nothing guaranteeing we have any of those players. I won't disagree that there was a mess created, but I disagree that signing Panarin was a mistake and would have put us in a better position now.

Panarin is also 4th in the league for points since we signed him. If we're just going to judge based on playoffs, I won't disagree that it has been disappointing, but it may have been just as disappointing with other players.
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We didn't really have a surplus though.

The farm was basically dead when the whole thing kicked off. The one thing JG did a good job with was replenishing the system and getting it to the point where it was definitely very strong, but they never got to the point where they were at an overflow. They got close but would have benefited from stocking for another year or 2.

Panarin being 4th in the league in scoring since he signed here only further strengthens what I'm saying. They didn't need that guy at the time he was signed and it makes it even more damning that he hasn't even come close to replicating that in the playoffs. Look at how everyone else in the top 10 has done in the playoffs in that time frame (heck, extend it to the top 20.)

I 1000% have the gift of hindsight here and we don't know how it would have gone had they stayed on track, but this method did not work and #10 is a big reason why on multiple levels. just from a player development stand point I'm going to cite Kakko as an example here -

He had a real struggle in his rookie season, but the one area where he actually did okay was on the PP and it actually operated pretty well until December where it hit a snag.

Mika got insanely hot a month later and he wasn't allowed to work his way back onto that top unit.

I have a hard time believing that the difference between it being fire and not was Ryan Strome.

Maybe he doesn't really become a factor on the PP with out the reps there, but you certainly don't get better at doing things by not doing them. Plus a big part of player development is putting guys in a position to succeed and when winning and being "competitive" takes a front seat to that...

You get what we have right now.
 
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bhamill said:
Even Kakko. 23pts in 36 games for Seattle, getting an average of about 30% more ice time, doesn't make me think that wasn't a win for us so far. I mean he has gone from 2.1 pts/60min with us to 2.16 with Seattle... I'm certainly not anti Kakko, but he hasn't taken a step with Seattle, he's just playing more.
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KK is an interesting case based on who looks at it. KK had a big month in January but his goal scoring is actually down from his Rangers seasons despite playing over 17 minutes per game and top PP time. He is racking up a lot of assists but only averages around 2 goals a month. Is that a top player? Depends on who you ask. What is also noteworthy is how many more goals he is on the ice for than in his time in NY. I believe KK is skating harder for breakouts than he did in NY but also cheating out of the defensive zone a lot more. Will be interesting to see what kind of contract he gets.
 
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GoAwayPanarin said:
I 1000% have the gift of hindsight here and we don't know how it would have gone had they stayed on track, but this method did not work and #10 is a big reason why on multiple levels.
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Don't know if the threads exist anymore, but there were plenty of us who were against the signing when it happened. It demonstrated a lack of forward thinking that still exists in the organization in the form of the Igor extension and the JT Miller trade.

I've said multiple times that I much preferred the Gorton/JD regime to Drury, but they did really drop the ball with trying to speedrun the rebuild.
 
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JohnC said:
Don't know if the threads exist anymore, but there were plenty of us who were against the signing when it happened. It demonstrated a lack of forward thinking that still exists in the organization in the form of the Igor extension and the JT Miller trade.

I've said multiple times that I much preferred the Gorton/JD regime to Drury, but they did really drop the ball with trying to speedrun the rebuild.
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And if the rebuild went nowhere, if Kakko's development went nowhere, what would fans be saying today, going years with nothing to show for it? It seems like we're judging on not having a cup victory and the no-effort you see taking place.

It didn't work for a cup. But the direction of not signing Panarin doesn't just put us in a better spot because we allocated that time to others and continued to grab prospects. We didn't do a great job with draft picks when it came to spending them for assets. We had opportunities to grab the same players that were traded to other teams. I don't think anybody is going to say Drury has done a great job. We had holes that weren't filled and it wasn't because we grabbed Panarin. Giving a big extension to a goalie who hasn't been a top 3 regular season goalie since winning the award, and trading away a 1st when the team shows no-effort on the ice is a bit different than signing a player who carried your offense since he's been here.
 
IDvsEGO said:
Considering how I was a big believer that he just needed more time, it doesn’t surprise me.
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Right, I mean most players will score more if given more time. He's basically scoring at the same playing time rate he was with us. If his pts/60 had gone up significantly I'd say he took a step. He's just being relied on more it seems.
 
IDvsEGO said:
Assuming you move
Mika / ck/ panarin this offseason.
We’re likely a top 10 pick next year.

We have perreault likely coming in at the end of the year.
We have a potential top 10’pick.

We also then have the assets from those 3 deals.

We would already have
a top 6 in miller
At least 2 top 6 wings in laf and cuylle, add perreault and you have 3/4 spots locked up
A top pair rhd / need a top pair lhd
The bottom 4 of our defense doesn’t look bad right now.

An all star goalie.

We need a 1c to slot miller down, a top 6 wing, and then that’s really it.

A top 10 pick fills one hole, and ufa might fill the other 2. And we’d have the cap space to do it.

Seriously this isn’t that difficult to see.

A one year bounce for a much cleaner reset.
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A Top10 pick in 2026 is not doing anything in the short term. Lets be real. Miller just turned 32. How many more years of 1C play does he have? This team is kind of f***ed.
 
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GAGLine said:
If it was just a down year, I'd be inclined to agree. But it seems to be more than that. Maybe I'm misreading the situation, but I'm seeing a lack of professionalism from him that I wouldn't have expected. I can appreciate a guy who gives his best but just doesn't have it anymore. I can't appreciate someone who doesn't give their best because they are upset at the organization, as Kreider seems to be. Yet at the same time, he doesn't want to leave, apparently. Maybe he was really hurt leading up to the deadline, but if that's the case, he shouldn't have played in the 4-nations. The whole thing just seems off with him.

He still has his speed. Did his hands completely abandon him over the summer? He had 39 goals and 75 points last year. He has 18 goals and 22 points this year. Yes, the whole team has taken a major step back, but that's a huge drop off. Again, if he's injured and it's affecting his play that much, he should sit out. The only thing I can conclude is that there are other factors affecting his play. And for that, I'm ready to move on. We had more than enough drama this year and Kreider is part of it. Get something for him while we can.
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I keep reading that if Kreider is injured he should sit out. My question is, for who.? There’s nobody left in Hartford. Othmann who is on pace for 0 points and Berard 20 points aren’t an upgrade. There was a time where players were lauded for playing hurt. Kreider sat out for 10 games or so. When he came back, he’s put with the new guys and Carrick. How many goals are we expecting from him playing with those guys. For instance, last night he had zero shots for two periods. He’s then put on a line with two of the three playmakers on the team and has perhaps the two best chances of the period, I personally believe he’s injured and washed up, but I think he’d at least be respectable if we could get some guys on the team that can actually pass the puck.
 
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UnparalledPark said:
I keep reading that if Kreider is injured he should sit out. My question is, for who.? There’s nobody left in Hartford. Othmann who is on pace for 0 points and Berard 20 points aren’t an upgrade. There was a time where players were lauded for playing hurt. Kreider sat out for 10 games or so. When he came back, he’s put with the new guys and Carrick. How many goals are we expecting from him playing with those guys. For instance, last night he had zero shots for two periods. He’s then put on a line with two of the three playmakers on the team and has perhaps the two best chances of the period, I personally believe he’s injured and washed up, but I think he’d at least be respectable if we could get some guys on the team that can actually pass the puck.
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It's not a matter of for whom. It's a matter of him being healthy or not. If he's injured, and it's affecting his play, then he should have sat out well before we began trading people away.

He only sat out after he played in the 4-nations. Why did he play in that if he was injured? If he wasn't injured, then why has he sucked the entire year prior to that?

I mean, believe what you want, but the way he has handled things this year leaves a lot to be desired.
 
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GoAwayPanarin said:
We didn't really have a surplus though.

The farm was basically dead when the whole thing kicked off. The one thing JG did a good job with was replenishing the system and getting it to the point where it was definitely very strong, but they never got to the point where they were at an overflow. They got close but would have benefited from stocking for another year or 2.

Panarin being 4th in the league in scoring since he signed here only further strengthens what I'm saying. They didn't need that guy at the time he was signed and it makes it even more damning that he hasn't even come close to replicating that in the playoffs. Look at how everyone else in the top 10 has done in the playoffs in that time frame (heck, extend it to the top 20.)

I 1000% have the gift of hindsight here and we don't know how it would have gone had they stayed on track, but this method did not work and #10 is a big reason why on multiple levels. just from a player development stand point I'm going to cite Kakko as an example here -

He had a real struggle in his rookie season, but the one area where he actually did okay was on the PP and it actually operated pretty well until December where it hit a snag.

Mika got insanely hot a month later and he wasn't allowed to work his way back onto that top unit.

I have a hard time believing that the difference between it being fire and not was Ryan Strome.

Maybe he doesn't really become a factor on the PP with out the reps there, but you certainly don't get better at doing things by not doing them. Plus a big part of player development is putting guys in a position to succeed and when winning and being "competitive" takes a front seat to that...

You get what we have right now.
Click to expand...
Panarin wasnt/isnt the issue. Its completely swinging and missing with their top draft picks and also rarely if ever finding anyone in later rounds. Just horrible drafting mixed with some bad luck. This team would look way different if Kakko and Laf panned out how everyone projected.

Since 2017….

1st Round
#7 bust
#21 2B center who cant stay healthy
#9 bust
#22 top four dman
#28 bust
#2 third liner
#1 second liner
#16 likely 3rd liner at best
#23 please god be a top line winger


2nd Round
Olof Lindblom LOL
Karl Henriksson
Cuylle (finally!)
Adam Sykora (3rd liner at best)


3rd Round and later
Morgan Barron
Adam Edstrom
Zac Jones
Brett Berard
Matt Rempe
Victor Mancini
 
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