Speculation: Roster Building thread - Part XVII - (TDL is March 7th)

[Oscar Lindberg]

Byram is a good Lindgren replacement in that he has a pulse and isn't f***ing dreadful but he's not exactly good either.

What's the appeal here

Which is weird because the people on the Buffalo forum are talking about wanting to sign Byram to an 8 million extension and trade Power lol

 

[LokiDog]

Byram is a good Lindgren replacement in that he has a pulse and isn't f***ing dreadful but he's not exactly good either.

What's the appeal here

23 year old LHD that doesn’t turn 24 until the summer with 27 EV points in 56 games this year (tied for 7th among D)? +11 on a horrid Buffalo team. Already won a Cup where he was very good in the post season. The concern with Byram is absolutely not quality, only health. Probably a great buy low candidate since Buffalo has Dahlin and Power locked in for the foreseeable future.

 

[80s Kid]

I see your logic, but I guess I'm of the mind where there is no world where resetting the market & overpaying a goalie by $3M is a better deal even if we managed to haggle for a contract that went from 12M to 11.5 because we gave him the NMC.

I was thinking more along the lines of Shesty accepting $11.5M w/NMC to sign w/Rangers instead of $13M w/NMC elsewhere. He gives the Rangers a team friendly deal by accepting less $ compared to another team (who would also give him a NMC) even though the deal is still hated by HFNYR. Drury got additional value by getting Shesty to sign a "less bad" contract.

For the record, I'm not crazy about Shesterkin's contract...I basically just hate it less than most other people because I think the cap is going up enough to make it somewhat palatable. One of the few instances where inflation is your friend. I believe Shesterkin is an excellent playoff goalie who needs to be more consistent in the regular season, especially after signing this contract.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Up in the Blue Seats Podcast:

 

[bl02]

Gabe better off staying BC or Hartford next year. Otherwise he comes here and plays bottom 6 and doesn't sniff the pp.
Let Panarin and Ck go first

 

[Vitto79]

Which is weird because the people on the Buffalo forum are talking about wanting to sign Byram to an 8 million extension and trade Power lol

Rangers scouting Sabres and Canes

 

[mike14]

Rangers scouting Sabres and Canes

Rantanen watch

 

[duhmetreE]

Schneider+ for Byram and McLeod

 

[UnparalledPark]

Which is weird because the people on the Buffalo forum are talking about wanting to sign Byram to an 8 million extension and trade Power lol

I read on their forum a while back that they were concerned that he wouldn’t re-sign with them because he wanted to be on PP1. If that’s the case he surely wouldn’t sign with us.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Kravtsov, Kakko, and Lafreniere were all more highly touted than Perreault. We would be over the moon if any of them turned into someone who put up a 120pt season. Very slim chances he becomes anything close to Panarin

Kratsov at no point was higher regarded than Perreault, even arguably during the draft as he was overdrafted but Gabe fell. Only place this was the case was in your head because he was a flashy Russian.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I guess

They’re probably asking for Schneider in that deal I assume

With lack of defense depth. That makes zero sense

 

[CLW]

23 year old LHD that doesn’t turn 24 until the summer with 27 EV points in 56 games this year (tied for 7th among D)? +11 on a horrid Buffalo team. Already won a Cup where he was very good in the post season. The concern with Byram is absolutely not quality, only health. Probably a great buy low candidate since Buffalo has Dahlin and Power locked in for the foreseeable future.

Trading with Buffalo presents the problem that they already are well stocked with prospects. What they need is ready made young NHL players and solid veterans. Veterans (i.e. players in their UFA years) tend to have NMC/NTCs and avoid Buffalo like the plague. What's left is to trade young pieces off your NHL roster that hurt the team in the here and now. Buffalo don't need KAM or Othmann, they'd probably ask for Schneider+ or Cuylle as the main player in return.

Something like Byram for Schneider + prospect + 3rd in a trade, then the NYR pick up a cheap vet/UFA to play behind Borgen and Fox.

Schneider+ for Byram and McLeod

Schneider+ gives you Byram imo, not Byram + McLeod. I was typing out my reply when you posted this suggestion .

 

[McRanger92]

Kravtsov, Kakko, and Lafreniere were all more highly touted than Perreault. We would be over the moon if any of them turned into someone who put up a 120pt season. Very slim chances he becomes anything close to Panarin

Perreault is a Keller type. Very good player but PP reliant and undersized. People really need to manage their expectations here, although if he stays around PLEASE give him top 6 minutes and PP time. Otherwise there is no point.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Byram is a good Lindgren replacement in that he has a pulse and isn't f***ing dreadful but he's not exactly good either.

What's the appeal here

I wouldn't target him, personally, but if I were to trade for him, it'd be with an eye towards 2nd pairing w Borgen and moving Miller back with Fox. Think you could do worse on the 2nd pair and there's upside. Plenty of risk too...

 

[NYR Viper]

Perreault is a Keller type. Very good player but PP reliant and undersized. People really need to manage their expectations here, although if he stays around PLEASE give him top 6 minutes and PP time. Otherwise there is no point.

Jake Guentzel is also undersized and, to me, is more akin to the type of player Perrault projects to be.

 

[LokiDog]

With lack of defense depth. That makes zero sense

You’re aware Byram is also D? Same draft as Schneider, 4th OA. Only 23 years old. Tied for 7th in the NHL in EV points for D. Averaging 23 minutes per night and is a +11 on Buffalo.

Byram - Fox
Miller - Borgen
Vaakanainen -

Or

- Fox
Miller - Borgen
Vaakanainen - Schneider

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If the Rangers were gun shy about Chytil's head issues I can't see them being gung ho on adding Byram.

I have no idea why you think that supports your argument. I also will blanketly call you a homer if you truly think there’s ever been a sustained stretch of time where Makar was not viewed as better than Fox. The only reason he’s finished behind Fox was missed games. Which everyone knows. So pretty universally considered better (at absolute worst, 100% equal) and HAVING a Norris under his belt is a sound argument for why Fox WITHOUT having a Norris under his belt at the time, got a higher AAV and full NMC? What Fox WOULD have gotten if he signed at a different time is irrelevant. Dahlin is making 11M now. Makar would easily be making 12.5-13M. Is that relevant? Again, everything ruffles the delicate feathers around here. I’m not criticizing Fox or saying he has a bad contract.

I’m criticizing management for not using the NMC protection as a more valuable negotiation chip. I would have hammered your point about Makar HAVING a Norris. This kid just won the Norris and doesn’t have ANY trade protection and you want more money AND a full NMC? Pick one, kid. Fox’s contract may be great value today - that doesn’t mean it was great negotiating at the time it was signed. Why is that hard to understand? Having the most NMCs in the NHL puts you in a shit position because you can’t f***ing trade anyone when they have full control over where they go, if they even waive at all, and so they have you over a barrel value wise. Was Trochek good value? Sure… is he so vital that he needed a full NMC? Would he not have come here if we “only” gave him 20 team trade protection? Caving to Shesterkin was just disgraceful. The combination of AAV and NMC isn’t defensible. My question as to why we have the most NMCs and are “the most desired” place to play, but haven’t squeezed any discounts out of it is valid and you can repeat yourself over and over again, I am not flinching off this.

The player with the hardware who signed his deal after the guy who didn't and had an extra year tacked on makes slightly more and got a NMC. I'm f***ing floored lmao.


Helllll of an assumption to make on Makar winning the Norris over Fox if he didn't miss 10 games in 2021. Fox was objectively the better player that year.


Anyway this is a dumb conversation. If you look at the teams around the league that have in in or around the playoffs for the last 3-4 years -

Minnesota - 7
Edmonton - 7
Boston- 6
Toronto - 6
NJD- 5
Florida - 4
Carolina (4, including William Carrier and Justin Chatfield lmao)
Dallas- 4 (Including Esa f***ing Lindell. Ottenginer and Heiskanen both have one kicking in in a season and in 2 seasons, respectively.)
Vegas - 4 (this actually surprised me, I assumed it would be more.)
Colorado - 4
NYR - 4 (5 next year)

And then others like Nashville (5, 6 next year) Pittsburgh (5). NYI have 1 but they also have half of their roster on some sort of no trade protection (including 6 additional players on full no trades right now.)

It's almost as if the majority of the teams that have either been competing for a cup or... what ever the f*** Nashville is doing have a bunch of these on their roster.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Yes that was the proposal, but you don't give up your best prospect in a trade like that, IMO. McLeod might top out as a 2C but probably slots as a 3C in all likelihood. I feel like if you give up your top prospect, it needs to be for an impact player like Brady T.

I have to agree. The list of players I'd trade Perreault for is quite short, but the Tkachuk brothers would both be on it. Buffalo would ask for Perreault, but it doesn't mean we should meet the asking price.

Just sign Gavrikov and Orlov or Maata and be done. Defense revamped.

Gavrikov-Fox
Miller-Borgen
Orlov/Maata-Schneider
Vaak

Depth.

Gimme Orlov and I like it. Want no part of Maataa.

 

[McRanger92]

Jake Guentzel is also undersized and, to me, is more akin to the type of player Perrault projects to be.

That’s the upside case for sure. Guentzel plays with elite grit though. He learned that from Sid

 

[EdJovanovski]

Kratsov at no point was higher regarded than Perreault, even arguably during the draft as he was overdrafted but Gabe fell. Only place this was the case was in your head because he was a flashy Russian.

He was drafted higher, he was ranked #1 NHL affiliated prospect by TSN and Gabe isn’t even in the top 14. On HFBoards Main Boards Prospect Rankings Polls Gabe was ranked 48th after being drafted, Kravtsov was ranked 27th. Following respective seasons Gabe moved up to 23, and Kravtsov moved up to 7.

Kravtsov was undeniably more hyped than Gabe by NHL GM’s who drafted them, by hockey media, and by consensus of this website.

And even if he weren’t, Kakko & Lafreniere obviously were. Not trying to crap on the kid but we should not be writing him in as some sure thing to be a ppg+ player. Our track record with even more highly touted prospects is abysmal. And Gabe does have those same limitations with skating as well as size.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He was drafted higher, he was ranked #1 NHL affiliated prospect by TSN and Gabe isn’t even in the top 14. On HFBoards Main Boards Prospect Rankings Polls Gabe was ranked 48th after being drafted, Kravtsov was ranked 27th. Following respective seasons Gabe moved up to 23, and Kravtsov moved up to 7.

Kravtsov was undeniably more hyped than Gabe by NHL GM’s who drafted them, by hockey media, and by consensus of this website.

And even if he weren’t, Kakko & Lafreniere obviously were. Not trying to crap on the kid but we should not be writing him in as some sure thing to be a ppg+ player. Our track record with even more highly touted prospects is abysmal. And Gabe does have those same limitations with skating as well as size.

By Craig Button.

Kravtsov's luster went away the second he bounced back to Russia in his D+2 season. It only got worse from there on out.

 

[Machinehead]

I blame the Rangers for being shitty with forwards but I also can't watch Kakko and Lafreniere for several seasons and not think that they both have debilitating limitations on their own.

And it's not just skating. Both of them have a poor hockey IQ. Lafreniere is straight up lazy. He's improved on absolutely nothing. He made it to the league and put his feet up.

People get on Zibanejad (valid in some cases), Kreider, and Fox for being apathetic, out of shape, country club etc., but both Zibanejad and Kreider did way more to cement themselves as first liners in this league and measurably improved on skills.

Fox, don't even. The guy is a future Hall of Famer and I'm not even typing that comparison.

 

[LokiDog]

I blame the Rangers for being shitty with forwards but I also can't watch Kakko and Lafreniere for several seasons and not think that they both have debilitating limitations on their own.

And it's not just skating. Both of them have a poor hockey IQ. Lafreniere is straight up lazy. He's improved on absolutely nothing. He made it to the league and put his feet up.

People get on Zibanejad (valid in some cases), Kreider, and Fox for being apathetic, out of shape, country club etc., but both Zibanejad and Kreider did way more to cement themselves as first liners in this league and measurably improved on skills.

Fox, don't even. The guy is a future Hall of Famer and I'm not even typing that comparison.

Zero doubt. Kreider and Mika (more Mika) joined the country club after being really successful NHLers who EARNED reputations as such. Fox did the same, it just basically took no time out of the gate for him to start earning that reputation. Lafreniere has worked harder on how loudly he can snap his bubble gum than being anything but a forgettable 1OA so far. He should be giving Panarin half his paycheck for the duration of his contract.

Don’t even misconstrue Fox frustration with whatever the f*** Laf is. With Fox it’s people seeing what he’s capable of and wanting him to have the determination (especially as a Rangers fan who dreamt of this so badly) to put in a Mackinnon-like commitment to constant improvement and fitness, because of where the ceiling would be if he did that. People don’t want to see 90% of Fox’s potential. They want to see 105% of it. That’s - IMO - where talk about “apathy” and fitness come from with him.

Lafreniere is a different kind of apathy. He made it to the NHL. He’s an NHLer in NY city, #1 pick, O6 team… he’s been big pimpin’ and yucking it up like he’s a 10 year vet since day 1, but he hasn’t done f*** all to back it up besides ride Panarin and Trochek’s career years last year to a 56M payday.

I also said that about Laf after his third year and said I hope he proves me wrong but he’s had his feet up thinking he’s one of the big boys since the day he arrived. I don’t know how we ended up with those two as non-controversial, consensus picks in those spots, other than the organization is cursed.

 

[McRanger92]

Lafreniere kinda seems like he’s going to go the way of Kakko & Chytil. Drury didn’t draft him. My speculation is he’s not cut out for NY, and would be happier in Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver.

 

[Cmox]

Kravtsov, Kakko, and Lafreniere were all more highly touted than Perreault. We would be over the moon if any of them turned into someone who put up a 120pt season. Very slim chances he becomes anything close to Panarin

This is a good sign.