Speculation: Roster Building thread - Part XVII - (TDL is March 7th)

[jerseyjinx94]

We don't need to galaxy brain this. Make the simple, smart decisions and re-assess. Lindgren. Smith. Vesey. Kreider. Panarin. In that order. See what pieces you can get back or what other opportunities present themselves. Get assets back to both develop and backfill but also provide ammunition for the right moves. Create cap space to make the right signings. I truly think that if these are done, between the assets they should receive in return as well as the cap space provided to make UFA signings, the team can compete next year.

“If they turn over 25% of the roster, including 2 top 6 F, and replace them with better players, they can be good.”

Well, yeah. I’m trying to be snarky but by including Panarin and Kreider in that post, it makes it way less simple than you’re making it. Lindgren, Smith, Vesey are simple and obvious decisions. Kreider and Panarin are very complicated

 

[haohmaru]

Kreider having only 3 assists this season, given his ice time and role, is almost a statistical impossibility.

 

[Alluckks]

Hanifin.

You're not concerned with Fox's level of play this season? Everyone blames every factor except Fox. Lindgren's fault. Drury's fault. Laviolette's fault. Housley's fault. Who else can you blame?

Fox was supposed to play with Slavin in the 4 Nations and we would see the real Adam Fox. Fox still looks awful. The lack of a defense partner is why Fox looks awful? He is not the same player from a few seasons ago. Lindgren was the partner at that time. Nothing has really changed. He takes a dumb penalty last night and he whines to the officials. Be quiet and serve your two minutes.

Top 20 skaters in the 4 Nations



Sweden-U.S.

Post the Canada game charts where you sucked off McAvoy

 

[NYR Viper]

“If they turn over 25% of the roster, including 2 top 6 F, and replace them with better players, they can be good.”

Well, yeah. I’m trying to be snarky but by including Panarin and Kreider in that post, it makes it way less simple than you’re making it. Lindgren, Smith, Vesey are simple and obvious decisions. Kreider and Panarin are very complicated

It's really not THAT complicated though. It's (2) trades. The others are rentals

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Bern is back with his never ending defending of Kreider's garbage hockey this season. Cant wait till he’s off the team so we dont need to hear it anymore.

He's still here?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

As far as Lindgren---our defense in general we need to change things up a bit. Lindgren's not an ideal partner for Fox because of similar size and he's not physical enough because of his size and because of that he's too often injured or playing banged up. I think Fox could use a bigger, stronger, more physical safety valve kind of partner. Lindgren's contract this year also is a little high and he wanted more. For a 20 point defenseman with all his other issues I wouldn't do it.

I disagree with this completely. Fox does not need a partner who is bigger and more physical. It's great if they have those attributes as well, but rough and tumble defensemen who have even decent puck skills don't really exist.

Fox and Miller have always crushed it when they've been paired together. Miller is a very good rush defender and can skate the puck out of his own end. Fox ends up being the guy who has to handle the majority of retrievals because teams generally don't way to try to carry the puck up ice on Miller's side if they can avoid it and Fox himself is a good defender of the rush. When he gets to pucks, they generally end up going to where they need to go.

Miller is far from an all world defenseman yet we've seen a quantum leap in Fox's overall impact when they're paired together. If they can find a player for him to partner up with who is even better? All the shit about his skating and being "in shape" is going to go away and as someone else said, he's going to automatically be tagged as someone who got himself in excellent shape when the reality is nothing will have changed outside of not playing with one of the worst defensemen in the league.

Ideally, He'd be paired with someone who is more in the mold of an Ekholm/Josi/Chabot type than a Mikkola/Gudbransson/Ekblad.

 

[eco's bones]

Once we got JTM I don't see a good chance that Zibanejad is traded (unless we get a bit of a whiff of a smoke that something is in works). That's a different situation from Kreider. @NYR Viper gave his order of priorities - mine are slightly different: Lindgren, Kreider, Smith, Vesey, (Jones)........ Panarin (re the last one - I'd like to know first which 90-100 point player is comng back to replace him).

I think Chris would be likelier to be traded than Mika for numerous reasons. That said I don't think that necessarily happens this year. I would put it at about 40% chance that Chris gets traded. It happens only if they get a really really good deal. About 15% that Mika gets moved before or at the deadline which is to say there are pretty decent odds that both of them are at next year's training camp. If he stays the real urgency to move Chris might start sometime next year especially if he gets off to a slow start. What I'm getting since the JT trade is the Rangers will likely look at Mika on the wing if he continues to have too many issues at center but they're going to try what they can to get him back to where he was because they really don't have a good option otherwise.

I don't think Panarin moves this year either. The only chance we keep any of Lindgren, Smith or Vesey would be practically everything going right for the Rangers between now and the deadline and we're magically in playoff position and winning all the time because we deserve to. That's a kind of pie in the sky scenario and even then they might get traded. Jones I think is a goner and I think he really wants to leave at this point. It will be up to him then to prove the Rangers were wrong. Not sure he's going to do that.

I think also the Rangers will try to take steps to rebuild their defense over the summer---probably to some degree with free agency. I think they'll keep K'Andre but that rebuild will primarily happen on the left side.

 

[eco's bones]

I disagree with this completely. Fox does not need a partner who is bigger and more physical. It's great if they have those attributes as well, but rough and tumble defensemen who have even decent puck skills don't really exist.

Fox and Miller have always crushed it when they've been paired together. Miller is a very good rush defender and can skate the puck out of his own end. Fox ends up being the guy who has to handle the majority of retrievals because teams generally don't way to try to carry the puck up ice on Miller's side if they can avoid it and Fox himself is a good defender of the rush. When he gets to pucks, they generally end up going to where they need to go.

Miller is far from an all world defenseman yet we've seen a quantum leap in Fox's overall impact when they're paired together. If they can find a player for him to partner up with who is even better? All the shit about his skating and being "in shape" is going to go away and as someone else said, he's going to automatically be tagged as someone who got himself in excellent shape when the reality is nothing will have changed outside of not playing with one of the worst defensemen in the league.

Ideally, He'd be paired with someone who is more in the mold of an Ekholm/Josi/Chabot type than a Mikkola/Gudbransson/Ekblad.

The Rangers need another puck moving point producing defenseman.....again a larger player than Fox but not necessarily to pair with him. I think one reason Adam's numbers are down is it's too easy for other teams to key on him---the rest of our D is not producing anything. The Rangers need another productive defenseman who can spread the minutes out that we actually have defensemen who can make plays. So if they bring in a Chychrun or a Provorov for instance he'll be on another pair but perhaps share time with Fox on the first unit power play.

One of my issues with Lindgren is he's incapable of taking the heat off Fox from a hard forechecking team. Teams have learned they can zero in on Fox. Miller could pair with him but we still need more offense from our D. Someone like Gavrikov would be a good get.

 

[NYR Viper]

Once we got JTM I don't see a good chance that Zibanejad is traded (unless we get a bit of a whiff of a smoke that something is in works). That's a different situation from Kreider. @NYR Viper gave his order of priorities - mine are slightly different: Lindgren, Kreider, Smith, Vesey, (Jones)........ Panarin (re the last one - I'd like to know first which 90-100 point player is comng back to replace him).

I'm less concerned with replacing Panarin's points. Many of them come on the PP. I'd rather build a team that can defend, which means using his cap hit to upgrade 1LD and likely a 3C (if Zibanejad slides over to RW)

 

[RangerBoy]

Kreider has always wanted to play in Boston.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm not saying I'm not open to moving Kreider at this point, considering where all parties are at.

But like, to see this guy, who has played for the Rangers for 13 years, who has the second-best goal-scoring campaign in Rangers history, has been one of the better playoff goal-scorers of his generation, who, by any fair standard, for better or worse, is a Rangers legend...to watch him play for Team USA for the first time and score for Team USA in his first shift, and your reaction to that is "nice, he scored in the arena we're trading him to," I invite you to smell the roses and try to just enjoy anything.

 

[bernmeister]

If we're trading Fox to Ottawa Tkachuk or Stutzle need to be in the conversation. I like Jake Sanderson too. I wouldn't talk to them unless names like that came up. I'm not trying to turn them into a contender. I want the Rangers to be the contender.

Kleven right now is a bottom pair and that might be all he ever is. He wasn't a 1st rounder (not that that's a be all end all). He was a middle of the 2nd rounder picked the same year Ottawa took the much superior Sanderson in the 1st round. Grieg is a pest player with some skill.....it's questionable whether he'll ever be more than a pedestrian top 6 player. He isn't that now. Pinto's kind of in the same category as Grieg as in not a legit top 6 forward---more of a sneaky goal scorer like a Vatrano or a Donato. Good players but not good enough to justify trading a top notch player for unless there's someone a lot more serious in the package.

Such trades are quantity over quality. We already have quantity as far as forward prospects. Why even do it?

we are not getting Sanderson
going 1:1 might make one feel good, but it does not address depth

As to the bold, most of the better ones are not ready now, and not nec pivots
Pinto + Grieg are Cs

We are 2 honest people of good conscience who disagree on their upside

 

[eco's bones]

we are not getting Sanderson
going 1:1 might make one feel good, but it does not address depth

As to the bold, most of the better ones are not ready now, and not nec pivots
Pinto + Grieg are Cs

We are 2 honest people of good conscience who disagree on their upside

Their upside is not what concerns me. It's what they are now or how could they help us right away and it's not nearly enough for losing Fox....and Pinto is 24. He's not that much younger than Fox. Fox had his Norris Trophy by then.....if Pinto was a top line player we'd know by now---he's not even a legit 2nd line player for Ottawa a team that's been outside the playoffs for years. Grieg at the moment looks like a 2nd line player at best and if he reaches that high probably not as a center. I think they're good players and all but I've never been covetous of either of them or Kleven.

 

[Alluckks]

I'm not saying I'm not open to moving Kreider at this point, considering where all parties are at.

But like, to see this guy, who has played for the Rangers for 13 years, who has the second-best goal-scoring campaign in Rangers history, has been one of the better playoff goal-scorers of his generation, who, by any fair standard, for better or worse, is a Rangers legend...to watch him play for Team USA for the first time and score for Team USA in his first shift, and your reaction to that is "nice, he scored in the arena we're trading him to," I invite you to smell the roses and try to just enjoy anything.

Too busy cherry pickings tweets

 

[17futurecap]

Feel like he has been mentioned here.

 

[NYR Viper]

Feel like he has been mentioned here.

He was a guy I could see being a target for that bottom-pairing LD spot. Obviously not anymore and Vaak has been passable there

 

[jerseyjinx94]

It's really not THAT complicated though. It's (2) trades. The others are rentals

For what tho

 

[Fitzy]

Pretty simple.

You don't trade Kreider just to trade Kreider. He's not THAT expensive as the cap goes up. He won't ever socre 50 again, but my guess is he has another 2-3 seasons of 30 goals before he becomes a permanent role player in his late 30's.

IF you get a great offer for him, you'd be foolish not to consider it. It's only a conversation we should have if it sets up a return that is going to make the team better. It's why I floated Lindholm as an idea earlier before I was made aware that Hampus has struggled of late- moving Kreider to get a true 25 minute LHD might actually make us better. Moving him for Vaakanainen does not, as Kreider is a net positive value.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Kreider has always wanted to play in Boston.

For a guy who spent 13 years as a Ranger and signed a long term extension, seems like that’s an exaggeration

Pretty simple.

You don't trade Kreider just to trade Kreider. He's not THAT expensive as the cap goes up. He won't ever socre 50 again, but my guess is he has another 2-3 seasons of 30 goals before he becomes a permanent role player in his late 30's.

IF you get a great offer for him, you'd be foolish not to consider it. It's only a conversation we should have if it sets up a return that is going to make the team better. It's why I floated Lindholm as an idea earlier before I was made aware that Hampus has struggled of late- moving Kreider to get a true 25 minute LHD might actually make us better. Moving him for Vaakanainen does not, as Kreider is a net positive value.

It’s really not simple at all to trade Chris Kreider. It would be a very impactful, complicated decision IMO

 

[kovazub94]

For a guy who spent 13 years as a Ranger and signed a long term extension, seems like that’s an exaggeration


It’s really not simple at all to trade Chris Kreider. It would be a very impactful, complicated decision IMO

The decision starts with that the Rangers need to improve LD. How do you achieve it both from the on-ice quality and cap cost perspective? If the answer involves including Kreider in the trade - the benefit should be compared to the cost (subjectively to most posters here is that the benefit outweighs the cost).

 

[NickyFotiu]

 

[bernmeister]

Pretty simple.

You don't trade Kreider just to trade Kreider. He's not THAT expensive as the cap goes up. He won't ever socre 50 again, but my guess is he has another 2-3 seasons of 30 goals before he becomes a permanent role player in his late 30's.

IF you get a great offer for him, you'd be foolish not to consider it. It's only a conversation we should have if it sets up a return that is going to make the team better. It's why I floated Lindholm as an idea earlier before I was made aware that Hampus has struggled of late- moving Kreider to get a true 25 minute LHD might actually make us better. Moving him for Vaakanainen does not, as Kreider is a net positive value.

bold is what I'm sayin
plus I don't see on paper how any team would offer top $ now

 

[Clark Kellogg]

 

[mike14]

Very small fry, but why didn't we send Rempe down to get some reps with the Pack while this 4 nations thing was going on? And at least suggest to Jones and Kayliev that they accept a 'conditioning' assignment as they both need playing time?

 

[JimmyG89]

I'm not saying I'm not open to moving Kreider at this point, considering where all parties are at.

But like, to see this guy, who has played for the Rangers for 13 years, who has the second-best goal-scoring campaign in Rangers history, has been one of the better playoff goal-scorers of his generation, who, by any fair standard, for better or worse, is a Rangers legend...to watch him play for Team USA for the first time and score for Team USA in his first shift, and your reaction to that is "nice, he scored in the arena we're trading him to," I invite you to smell the roses and try to just enjoy anything.

Not just playing for them, but drafted and developed by the Rangers. Had a playoff goal type reaction when he scored.

Trying to find the last time a Rangers drafted and developed player scored in a best-on-best tourney and the only thing I could find between Olympics, World Cup, 4 Nations, etc. is Doug Weight in 2002, of course he was not on the Rangers at the time of the goal.

The last time a drafted and developed Rangers player scored for the US in best on best while on the Rangers was, of course, Brian Leetch in the '98 Olympics. 27 years in-between goals.