Speculation: Roster Building thread - Part XVII - (TDL is March 7th)

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Vendetta? Did you watch him struggle last night? The Rangers are never winning anything with Fox as their lead D. Never. Ever. You are blind SnowblindNYR. He was invisible in the playoffs last season. He hasn't had any good playoff performances at all. The Rangers need their best players to be their best players and not stop making excuses for the overpaid spoiled brats. I remember people would rip Leetch for the Rangers losing in the playoffs. He played great in the Cup year and the Rangers won. Everyone blames Lindgren. I know Fox was hurt last season. That was the excuse. There always seems to be something wrong with him. The excuses never stop. He needs to defend. He can't defend. You can take your fancy stats and flush them down the toilet. The Rangers can add every big name forward. They are never winning without a complete and total rebuilding of the D. He can't skate backwards. Even Brooks said Fox is a 2nd pair D. Who are the Rangers acquiring to play on their first pair? Drury is busy collecting forwards. Everyone gets criticized here but for some reason Fox is off limits. I wonder why? The best players on the Rangers in your opinion should be up for some criticism.


Mollie posted the article.

Why then? Because he's from the area?

I hope you're not saying criticism of him has anything to do with his ethnicity or political affiliation.

Rangers will eliminate them in R2 as usual.

I hope. They gotta step it and go like 18-6-3 to get in as a WC.

They're also going to have a tough time against the Capitals or Panthers unless they have some crazy switch go off.

 

[McRanger92]

Why then? Because he's from the area?

I hope you're not saying criticism of him has anything to do with his ethnicity or political affiliation.


I hope. They gotta step it and go like 18-6-3 to get in as a WC.

They're also going to have a tough time against the Capitals or Panthers unless they have some crazy switch go off.

I think Drury intends to get bigger in the bottom 6 and on D before the deadline passes. JT+Cuylle as top 6 fixtures and hopefully Lafreniere begins to find his game from last year. I think we can take anyone in the East as long as Igor does his thing.

The Mika/Panarin level changes come in the summer but there's no reason they cant make some noise this year.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I think Drury intends to get bigger in the bottom 6 and on D before the deadline passes. JT+Cuylle as top 6 fixtures and hopefully Lafreniere begins to find his game from last year. I think we can take anyone in the East as long as Igor does his thing.

The Mika/Panarin level changes come in the summer but there's no reason they cant make some noise this year.

They need to show up and not have anymore duds like they did against Pittsburgh. Right back from the break smack the Sabres, payback against the Penguins, and the Islanders are a mess, I don't want this "Islanders have a different competitive energy against the Rangers" excuses. They have a lot of injuries. Punch them in the face and move on.

 

[TGWL]

Trade Panarin for Gavrikov, 1st, and Kempe
Trade Krieder to Boston for Frederic and a 1st
Trade Lindgren and Smith, both at 50% to MN for a 1st and Stramel

Sign Gavrikov at 7.5 x 5 and Frederick 3.75 x 3

Kempe Miller Mika
Cuylle Tro Laf
Othmann Frederic Perrault
Edstrom Carrick Berard
Brodz/Kaliyev

Gav Fox
Key Borgeous
Urkel Schneider
Brannstrom

Kings don't touch that.

 

[pld459666]

LOL...I'm not sure how it changes the visual on Fox if he is playing up to snuff ? Head scratcher.....

Well, when you play like shit, the visuals match.

Fox is part of the team and I never mentioned him NOT playing like shit.

However, your statement was that he was slowing down.

I disagree

 

[DanielBrassard]

Sure trade another 22/23 year old. While we are at it trade K. Miller for peanuts and Schneider because the grass always greener on the other side.

At least in this trade we would be acquiring a guy who is of similar age. I’m not sure I would cash in the Lafreniere chip on Zegras, but it would be intriguing if the Rangers could somehow find a way to bring him home.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Fox is fine and isn't declining. His problem is he's out of shape and too comfortable in his surroundings being close to home with a big contract, wife, kid, and some of his best friends on the team. He needs to change his off season training and be a little more like Rocky III (if you don't get the reference to his training for the rematch with Clubber Lang, shame).

Also if they trade him, do the Rangers have another 65-70 point defenseman in their system or they can pluck from a tree? I'm waiting. The Rangers remaining D prospects (Fortescue, Emery, Dorrington) all all D no O. Unless Larsson gets bitten by a radioactive spider and becomes Zubov-Man, they don't have that.

Leetch wasn't the problem in his first three playoff goes with the Rangers (1989, 1991, and 1992) it was the Rangers being too finesse top heavy the first two times, and running into an experienced and motivated Pittsburgh the third time. If Leetch didn't break his ankle in Toronto and was around for the 1990 playoffs, they may have gone all the way. They owned both Boston and Edmonton that year if I remember.

 

[JohnC]

Let me just say I'm not at all surprised at the population of the "trade Fox" crowd. It's exactly the folks I was expecting it would be, and I lack any sort of faith in their ability to understand the game of hockey at above the level of "Man hit puck with stick"

It’s a collection of this board’s least intellectual posters…and RB

 

[bleedblue94]

I disagree with your assertion that Fox is slowing down.

The whole team played like shit for 40+ games. That has an impact on numbers and visuals.

Just watch the 4 nations games. If Hughes is healthy fox isn't even in the lineup for the next game. He's essentially a pp specialist that lost that role in the first game and if Hughes were dressed he would take over that role without any question. Fox is a good offensive defenseman on a bad nyr d corps. There are a number of teams in the league for which fox wouldn't even be consideration to be on the top pairing.

The blinders when it comes to fox are comparable to the years that no one would allow Panarin to be criticized as a perimeter player and a turnover machine. Eventually reality was accepted about Panarin. It will happen with fox at some point.

Let me just say I'm not at all surprised at the population of the "trade Fox" crowd. It's exactly the folks I was expecting it would be, and I lack any sort of faith in their ability to understand the game of hockey at above the level of "Man hit puck with stick"

Good to see in your case the Captain goes down with the ship...

 

[bleedblue94]

It’s a collection of this board’s least intellectual posters…and RB

Sometimes intellectuals are wrong, but of course they won't acknowledge it. Appreciate passive insults though as your golden boy is becoming irrelevant in a tournament featuring USA's best players...

I would absolutely NOT trade a bunch for Rantanen. If we want him, just wait for him to turn UFA.

Sign and trades are coming to the NHL as the cap is going up significantly in the coming years and will be letting teams financially breathe and present more options for players to sign with. Teams are not going to be as willing to wait for UFA since there will be more teams with more available dollars to spend once a player gets to UFA.

 

[GAGLine]

Trade Panarin for Gavrikov, 1st, and Kempe
Trade Krieder to Boston for Frederic and a 1st
Trade Lindgren and Smith, both at 50% to MN for a 1st and Stramel

Sign Gavrikov at 7.5 x 5 and Frederick 3.75 x 3

Kempe Miller Mika
Cuylle Tro Laf
Othmann Frederic Perrault
Edstrom Carrick Berard
Brodz/Kaliyev

Gav Fox
Key Borgeous
Urkel Schneider
Brannstrom

The first deal is terrible for LA. Kempe has become a very good player for them while making less than half of what Panarin makes. Kempe is 5 years younger, has as many years left on his contract (1) as Panarin, and doesn't wilt in the playoffs like Panarin. If I'm them, I wouldn't trade Kempe for Panarin straight up, never mind adding a top 4 dman and a 1st.

The deal you proposed makes their team objectively worse.

Value-wise, the Kreider deal makes sense, but I don't know why Boston would do it. They are in limbo right now and Kreider isn't the difference between competing and not competing.

Minnesota doesn't have the cap space to do that deal, even with the retention. Kaprizov is on LTIR but is expected back before the end of the season. I don't think they are a good trade target for us.

 

[Chytilmania]

I think Drury intends to get bigger in the bottom 6 and on D before the deadline passes. JT+Cuylle as top 6 fixtures and hopefully Lafreniere begins to find his game from last year. I think we can take anyone in the East as long as Igor does his thing.

The Mika/Panarin level changes come in the summer but there's no reason they cant make some noise this year.

I was banging on the table to keep Mikkola. Thought he was an amazing pick up for his role.

 

[McRanger92]

I was banging on the table to keep Mikkola. Thought he was an amazing pick up for his role.

He was the perfect partner for Fox. Protect his teammates but also can skate play physical. Borgen is similar. I trust Drury to locate another Mikkola type. Lauzon and Hague have been mentioned over the years.

The first deal is terrible for LA. Kempe has become a very good player for them while making less than half of what Panarin makes. Kempe is 5 years younger, has as many years left on his contract (1) as Panarin, and doesn't wilt in the playoffs like Panarin. If I'm them, I wouldn't trade Kempe for Panarin straight up, never mind adding a top 4 dman and a 1st.

The deal you proposed makes their team objectively worse.

Value-wise, the Kreider deal makes sense, but I don't know why Boston would do it. They are in limbo right now and Kreider isn't the difference between competing and not competing.

Minnesota doesn't have the cap space to do that deal, even with the retention. Kaprizov is on LTIR but is expected back before the end of the season. I don't think they are a good trade target for us.

Boston can't make that Kreider deal unless we retain, and another contract is added. But that's the framework.

 

[bernmeister]

Let’s start with Zibanejad, Lindgren, Kreider and Smith and re-evaluate.

3 out of 4
Kreider AUTOMATIC reduced value due to injury compels waiting, reassess.
Unlike unforgiveable zib, no reason to give ck away

Brooks trying to trade Laf. The other brainiacs here trying to trade Fox. This season has gone over a lot of people's heads. Neither is happening, unless Brady T is available.

Kreider is next. The Boston rumors imo have legs. He has been demoted and called out the same as Trouba. Zucc played the same half effort game in the months leading up to his trade in 2019.

I think the trade is Kreider(50%) and Othmann to Boston for Frederic, Brazeau and Boston's 1st. The money works out almost dead even as long as Othmann goes to AHL Providence. Rangers would then extend both Frederic and Brazeau (Meat and Potatoes) like they did Borgen.

The follow up to that is Lindgren(50%) and Reilly Smith (50%) to Vegas for their 2025 2nd, 2026 2nd and a 2025 4th. Id love a similar framework to a team willing to trade a 1st.

Deal Vesey for a 4th or 5th. Replace him with Berard.

Restock the draft pic cupboard for the summer and use our cap space from the Trouba trade to retain and sweeten the pot. Use the newfound ammunition to add a partner for Fox.

Panarin-Miller-Zibanejad
Lafreniere-Trocheck-Cuylle
Brazeau-Frederic-Kaliyev
Berard-Carrick-Rempe

Buy and sell. Postion yourself to deal Mika and/or Panarin in the summer. teams will have plenty of cap space and Mika seems to enjoy playing with the Swedes.
This tournament has been fun and Im excited for the Final but Im ready for trades to start and games to get underway again.

False, no legs, just wishful thinking by some
Sure, not beyond Drury to give ck or anyone else away for too little, but at present, my narrative remains correct
teams are watching ck and not likely to overpay
hopefully Drury does not consider too little

Kreider is 217th in scoring amongst NHL forwards, behind powerhouses like Keegan Kolesar, Nic Dowd and Brendan Gallagher. He stinks. IF he's injured he should be on IR allowing for development of a young winger. If he's not able to go 100% he shouldn't be playing. But keep proping up your boy while he continues to suck out loud.

SHAME

AGAIN
that he is down in scoring [assuming your quoted stat is accurate] IS IRRELEVANT because THERE IS A REASON: INJURY

Yet FURTHER AGAIN
you are unqualified to speak medically as to his situation which I discussed above and am not gonna repeat myself,
except as to say your doubling down deserves
double shame
SHAME
SHAME

Let me just say I'm not at all surprised at the population of the "trade Fox" crowd. It's exactly the folks I was expecting it would be, and I lack any sort of faith in their ability to understand the game of hockey at above the level of "Man hit puck with stick"

quantity size of the crowd is <<<<<<<<<< to the quality of those posters, visibly @RangerBoy , @bleedblue94 , and yrs truly, all who demonstrate a track record of calling things out beforehand, and often if not usually being proven right

Issues are:
1 - not whether Fox is any good/how good, but whether dealing returns quality youth assets than help short term while opening the window wider
2 - his nmc kicks in soon
it's now or never
don't make me bring Elvis into this...

awp, too late:

 

[McRanger92]

Fox is fine and isn't declining. His problem is he's out of shape and too comfortable in his surroundings being close to home with a big contract, wife, kid, and some of his best friends on the team. He needs to change his off season training and be a little more like Rocky III (if you don't get the reference to his training for the rematch with Clubber Lang, shame).

Also if they trade him, do the Rangers have another 65-70 point defenseman in their system or they can pluck from a tree? I'm waiting. The Rangers remaining D prospects (Fortescue, Emery, Dorrington) all all D no O. Unless Larsson gets bitten by a radioactive spider and becomes Zubov-Man, they don't have that.

Leetch wasn't the problem in his first three playoff goes with the Rangers (1989, 1991, and 1992) it was the Rangers being too finesse top heavy the first two times, and running into an experienced and motivated Pittsburgh the third time. If Leetch didn't break his ankle in Toronto and was around for the 1990 playoffs, they may have gone all the way. They owned both Boston and Edmonton that year if I remember.

It is good for Fox to see how the Tkachuk's and JT Miller and Charlie McAvoy are approaching these USA games. The Rangers need to trade Lindgren because you're right that Fox has some growing up to do on the ice. I have zero desire to trade this guy, nor does Drury, who obviously has a preference toward the American born players. As an American and a fan of the biggest American team, I am in favor of that. It served us well during the prime of the Henrik era. But the culture the team is working toward is the hard nosed defensive one Team USA is playing. People can talk all they want about the top of the lineup for Tampa and Florida, but they didnt break through until they started playing elite team defense.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

It is good for Fox to see how the Tkachuk's and JT Miller and Charlie McAvoy are approaching these USA games. The Rangers need to trade Lindgren because you're right that Fox has some growing up to do on the ice. I have zero desire to trade this guy, nor does Drury, who obviously has a preference toward the American born players. As an American and a fan of the biggest American team, I am in favor of that. It served us well during the prime of the Henrik era. But the culture the team is working toward is the hard nosed defensive one Team USA is playing. People can talk all they want about the top of the lineup for Tampa and Florida, but they didnt break through until they started playing elite team defense.

I really hope the Rangers don't self-rent Lindgren. That would be the most Rangers things to do.

They don't really have much ammo left, and the changes we were going to see this upcoming summer started early.

The best idea would be as others have said, Lindgren/Kreider are the two most movable pieces. The hope is to basically turn both into another defenseman and some draft captial.

I wouldn't say Drury only loves Americans, he loves players who are various levels of nasty or tough. Chlemar and Sykora play a North-South game. Laba is a pain.

You can't have a team full of that otherwise you get the 2009-2013 Rangers.

 

[effen]

Let me just say I'm not at all surprised at the population of the "trade Fox" crowd. It's exactly the folks I was expecting it would be, and I lack any sort of faith in their ability to understand the game of hockey at above the level of "Man hit puck with stick"

You want it to be one way.... But it's the other way.

 

[effen]

However, your statement was that he was slowing down.

Standing still is about as slow as you can go. He should really stop that.

 

[duhmetreE]

Laffy is still a kid even though he looks like he’s 40.

He took the personality of our soft core. Change the core and you will see a different player

Trading him for Zegras is the most brain dead thing I’ve heard here in a while. Brooks is trying too hard

 

[Fitzy]

Standing still is about as slow as you can go. He should really stop that.

Especially when he is playing fewer minutes.

I had often assumed that his somewhat casual approach to skating was to conserve energy to play 24 a night for NY. Now I'm thinking he should probably have an active offseason and try to work on that element of his game.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It’s a collection of this board’s least intellectual posters…and RB

There’s a massive cross over between pro Lindgren/Rempe and anti Fox posters.

There are good posters and news bots in the group, but it’s like 3 people and RB.

 

[effen]

Especially when he is playing fewer minutes.

I had often assumed that his somewhat casual approach to skating was to conserve energy to play 24 a night for NY. Now I'm thinking he should probably have an active offseason and try to work on that element of his game.

The best way to conserve expendable energy is to always be in motion. Starting from a dead stop being harder is just physics.

He does it because it's a personality quirk. An uncharitable take would be that he's petulant. I don't know of a single other guy in the league who does what he does in that respect.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Laffy is still a kid even though he looks like he’s 40.

He took the personality of our soft core. Change the core and you will see a different player

Trading him for Zegras is the most brain dead thing I’ve heard here in a while. Brooks is trying too hard

The Post is a sensationalist paper. Larry still says many good things but he's also trying to draw subscribers to his Post Plus thing.

Mollie's reporting has declined this season. She's the Queen of Instagram and Podcasts now.

The Rangers have 1.5 good beat writers. Colin Stephenson, and Vince who I have no clue on any given day is either working or on parental leave. Neither are even close to Lary or Carp from the 80s-2010s.

 

[Fitzy]

The best way to conserve expendable energy is to always be in motion. Starting from a dead stop being harder is just physics.

He does it because it's a personality quirk. An uncharitable take would be that he's petulant. I don't know of a single other guy in the league who does what he does in that respect.

I think Fox feels like his best passes come when he's relatively stationary. That's the best charitable rationalization I can derive for it.

He just needs to be okay with the idea that sometimes a risky, erratic pass when on the pivot or skate can be as effective as an immaculate pass when both your feet are set. Especially in today's day and age when getting the goaltender moving s such an integral part of getting the goal.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Everyone has their favorite players but we really should be looking at this tournament to judge our skill level. I do not think we have a top 20 player. Maybe not even top 25.

I would be open to trading anyone that is a poor skater, is not physical, or over the age of 26. I'd consider guys under 26 as well if the offer was for a great player. That does not mean I would trade them all nor that I would take anything but a good trade. I'm just saying nobody on this team should be looked at as untouchable imo. We need to listen to all offers and then decide each one individually.

I would have 4 main goals for our future.

1. Get faster. Speed kills and we have very little of it.

2. Get tougher to play against on the boards all over the rink.

3. Get younger.

4. Find top line and top D pairing guys.
No more bottom 9 forwards and bottom 4 defensemen.

On a side note I would like to retain Sam Rosen and retire Larry Brooks instead.