Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[pld459666]

I want Miller with Laf. I want him making Lafs life a living hell.

A living hell???

I want Lafreniere with Miller so that Lafreniere can better learn how to play the game. Panarin is NOT the mentor for Lafreniere

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Yes they do.

Miller was way better but Lavi had to break that pair up bc loves RL. Any of the other D on the NHL roster would be better.

Branstromm who has been traded and waived a bunch of times would be better and I’d bet Ruhweedel would be better too.

This doesn’t mean all of those guys are ideal or even good options , but they’re better.

I don’t consider Miller an option bc he’s playing with Borgen.

Brannstrom was just acquired by waivers and has been in 3 organizations this season.

Ruwhedel was horrendous in the 5 games or whatever he played this year.

The only realistic options for this spot are Schneider or Lindgren

 

[Guyute]

If the Rangers keep losing heading into the trade deadline, Drury should go to Washington an offer Panarin at 50% for Leonard. Obviously, it isn't likely to happen considering Washington needs to say yes and Panarin needs to waive. But you might as well give it a shot.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don’t consider Miller an option bc he’s playing with Borgen.

Brannstrom was just acquired by waivers and has been in 3 organizations this season.

Ruwhedel was horrendous in the 5 games or whatever he played this year.

The only realistic options for this spot are Schneider or Lindgren

You don’t consider miller an option for a bad reason.

I’m aware of the track record of the other 2 and don’t think they’re good either. I have little doubt they’d be upgrades to Lindgren who is waiver wire quality himself.

 

[Savant]

What would you do differently if you were chris drury?

How far back in the timeline are we allowed to go

 

[NikC]

Realistically, how many people thought he'd move Trouba, much less moving him with no $ retained?

Did anyone really think he'd pull off the J.T Miller move? I'm not absolving Drury of some of his baffling decisions as GM so far... but we're seeing he realized this team can not continue as constructed, and is trying to change the culture by addition by subtraction... additions

 

[SnowblindNYR]

If the Rangers keep losing heading into the trade deadline, Drury should go to Washington an offer Panarin at 50% for Leonard. Obviously, it isn't likely to happen considering Washington needs to say yes and Panarin needs to waive. But you might as well give it a shot.

Would you have taken a similar trade last year for Perreault? I don't know who the Panarin equivalent would be. But you get the idea. I doubt the Caps do it.

 

[Savant]

Realistically, how many people thought he'd move Trouba, much less moving him with no $ retained?

Did anyone really think he'd pull off the J.T Miller move? I'm not absolving Drury of some of his baffling decisions as GM so far... but we're seeing he realized this team can not continue as constructed, and is trying to change the culture by addition by subtraction... additions

Trouba move was a grand slam. The problem was what happened afterwards. At that point the next thing that he should have done was trade Igor and blow it up. Instead we got the Igor extension and are now in a limbo retool

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Realistically, how many people thought he'd move Trouba, much less moving him with no $ retained?

Did anyone really think he'd pull off the J.T Miller move? I'm not absolving Drury of some of his baffling decisions as GM so far... but we're seeing he realized this team can not continue as constructed, and is trying to change the culture by addition by subtraction... additions

Because the Rangers were up in their feelings for a month people were actually bemoaning how he handled Trouba.

 

[pld459666]

What are you getting for those players that makes this team better now and doesn't lean further towards a rebuild? All 3 of those players are worthless according to Ranger fans but somehow they'll be traded for valuable assets? Whatever they get for them will push this team closer to rebuild/retool than contention.

Cap space is a valuable asset, so even if you get nothing of really meaningful value back in terms of hard assets, the cap savings for 07/01 is huge.

But let's say between the three names mentioned, we get a 1st in 26 and a few 2nd/3rd rounders in 25.

It's time to turn the page on guys. Move out guys and make room for Othmann, Berard, Perrault, Sykora, Chemlar.

What we have with Mika and Ck is clearly NOT WORKING. move them along

If the Rangers keep losing heading into the trade deadline, Drury should go to Washington an offer Panarin at 50% for Leonard. Obviously, it isn't likely to happen considering Washington needs to say yes and Panarin needs to waive. But you might as well give it a shot.

Panarin and OV are not really friendly. Not sure that's going to be the destination I pitch Panarin to.

If I'm pitching AP to anyone, it's Minnesota with 25% retention and look to pry Buium, Ritchie and a 26 1st.

 

[Savant]

Would you have taken a similar trade last year for Perreault? I don't know who the Panarin equivalent would be. But you get the idea. I doubt the Caps do it.

I mean, I for sure would have traded Perrault for an in-form Hart caliber forward with term. But I think, especially in perception around the league, is (a) Leonard has a fair bit more value than Perreault and (b) Panarin is not currently in Hart form

 

[Savant]

You don’t consider miller an option for a bad reason.

I’m aware of the track record of the other 2 and don’t think they’re good either. I have little doubt they’d be upgrades to Lindgren who is waiver wire quality himself.

You know I mentioned this yesterday but one of the drawbacks to the Miller trade is that without Mancini, we don’t have another Dman to put in the lineup. There are not a lot of realistic practical solutions to this either. I think their best realistic shot looks like a Kreider for Zadarov trade but we have no internal solutions on D. And now we have even less; which wasn’t a reason not to do the Miller deal but this is still something they are going to have to solve for.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

This is not a locker room issue. I do not believe it ever was. That is and was an excuse. Look at the playoff losses in the last 3 seasons. In crucial game 7's you will see a team that was out worked. Bread, CK, Zibs, and Fox are your top 4. Those 4 have a soft, soft, and softer approach to the game. They set the tone for they whole team. Now you have age playing a factor with Bread, CK and Zibs. CK is obviously playing hurt. Laf is back to inconsistent efforts. You have Fox having had knee injuries. We no longer have guys like Copp, Tank, Kane, and Mikkola as depth players. People are missing the real picture. This is not a locker room or coaching issue. This is a player issue. The only exception I will say is with Housley. I think he has done a bad job.

To me a locker room issue or high maintenance group is an attitude/culture that is born out of your leadership’s example.

I believe we are saying the same thing.

The core players getting out worked in playoff games. The consistent habit of not being ready to play. It all points to the mentality of the top that trickles down in the room.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

The Washington Capitals didn't blow it up. Vegas never blew it up. The Panthers were Presidents' Trophy winners and barely sneaked into a playoff spot and went to the Cup Final and won it the following year. If it were up to this board Florida would have sold off. I would trade Kreider, Lindgren, and if I can Mika. That's not blowing it up. But it's not nothing.

Blowing it up in this city is simply offloading two or three of your long tenured veteran “fan favorites” for futures or assets to find better players.

And they are pretty much half way there

Hell, if trading Kreider, Lindgren and someone like Smith on top of Chytil, Trouba, Kakko and Goodrow - comparing it from last years presidents winning team that’s as blowing it up as you’re going to get

 

[FultonReed]

at the NY Sirens v Montreal Victoire game, and the Rangers could absolutely use a captain like Marie-Philip Poulin. was up in the box for almost her entire 5 minute major, cheering on her teammates

 

[NickyFotiu]

Let it be reminded that he has jettisoned players to half of the Pacific Division already

He may be doing them a favor. They can now play against some pretty bad teams

 

[17futurecap]

Send Kreider to JD at the draft for the Minnesota first round pick, keeps Kreider in the eastern time zone, cap of 6.5 for two more years, but only owed 10 million in cash.

A young team on the rise gets a veteran who has played in a boat load of playoff games, and JD gave him the contract.

 

[NickyFotiu]

If he's hurting?---absolutely he should drop out.

This tournament doesn't mean shit to me anyway. He's paid by the Rangers to help us win games and if he's hurt he should take a rest.

CK is usually a physical stud. Yesterday I saw him go against a couple of smaller players and he could not even nudge them away. I could see he was having trouble physically. I figured it was a back issue but later on I saw him bend for a faceoff and I think win a face off so I'm not sure it is his back if he was doing that. There is zero chance this CK is jumping out of any pools. I'm very surprised he has not dropped out.

 

[bernmeister]

The problem is that You will never get a return that is >> Fox

disagree and let's have an honest debate.

one option:
Fox + 2 later 2nds + cap dump vesey
to OTT
for
Kleven, Pinto, Grieg + 2 later Sens 1sts

let's objectively discuss and compare options!

Back to Kreider for a minute. None of us including you actually know how bad his back is or isn't. We're not in the locker room or around the team. He's still playing 17/18 minutes a game though. If it's that bad he shouldn't be playing at all. Heal and play? what is that? If he needs to heal he should just heal.....and not play. Most games he's been pretty much useless.

Also you're wanting to scapegoat Mika for Chris's lack of production. But when he went on Chytil's line he didn't produce then either. Mika's been atrocious---Kreider's had a horrible year though too.

By the way this is not hate. I've been a fan of Chris Kreider's since he joined the team. Arguably he's been my favorite player for quite a while. Always at least in the top 2/3. I've also liked Mika a lot but they've both been terrible this year and pretty much everyone sees that it's both---not just one---but you.

ck said it was his back
setting aside giving anyone benefit of the doubt
devil's advocate, could he get away with saying that if it wasn't true?

ok, discussion, it's his back
I personally would prefer he sit LTIR
howev, he may be trying to sit a game here and there and play most mins he can even if he has to hold back most of the time nearly every shift
Like you say, none of us knows
but that is plausible and it would explain things

I am also very concerned that 2-3 wks ago he was looking better and playing well w/Cuylle.
NOW he DOES look weak
shut it down Chris

Now I don't think he was prior or especially now is gonna return any signif swag b'c he is damaged goods
If that aspect = reality, why sell him cheap and take less?
Let's see what tom brings and if/when he demonstrates that he can still cut it, and we take into account the chemistry of who is then here at that time, we can attempt to objectively figure out value of keeping vs whatever offers are at that time.

But dealing now is beyond stupid

And finally, peeps need to be honest
Zib is a vain prima donna who makes no physical commitment and is dragging down everyone
Kreider is a team player who is overly physically committing when he should be healing and in flashes where he was healthier, has played well

This kreider is hurt stuff is nonsense. He's not hurt to the point that he needs to shut down. He has shown he can still get on his horse if he wants to. He's not able to sustain it, that's all. He is old. You're asking an old player to turn back time.

disagree
howev, I gave it a like b'c scantly clad Cher deserves that

 

[NickyFotiu]

We were soft against Florida. The Panthers owned all the corners and both net fronts. They owned the walls. We lost at least 3/4's of the puck battles. You need skill but you also need bigger bodies who will go into the combat areas. JT can provide the skill and size, physicality and the attitude but we need more than just him.

On JT's first shift yesterday I saw him go to the boards and recover pucks. He does the stuff our other guys do not do. Watching Fox on the boards yesterday was alarming. I understand he is not huge but that kind of stuff makes me wonder what he really is as a defensemen. The NHL especially in the playoffs is a contact sport. Floridas Dmen hit us but our Dmen took hits. We need more Alphas for sure. A lot more. CK used to be one. Laf could be one if he would snap out of things. Will can be one. People say JT won't be enough. They are right but he is a first step in the right direction. Schneider and Borgen are able as well.

 

[bernmeister]

You know I mentioned this yesterday but one of the drawbacks to the Miller trade is that without Mancini, we don’t have another Dman to put in the lineup. There are not a lot of realistic practical solutions to this either. I think their best realistic shot looks like a Kreider for Zadarov trade but we have no internal solutions on D. And now we have even less; which wasn’t a reason not to do the Miller deal but this is still something they are going to have to solve for.

disagree

1. Zads is not a great get
2. IF we can get zib to waive to BOS, then eating half = 4.25 and we need Zads as a cap dump the other way.
May not be enuf
May need to send Smith ish to a 3rd team in lieu of like 4 6ths to get zib down to 2.5 per

so the above establishes it is best not to use Kreider, who we can ltir, for Zads, and instead be able to use to move Mika

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

If this organization really thinks it has a shot of making the playoffs they have to force Mika and Kreider to third line minutes. They’re both black holes and they kill any line they’re on. Make them a checking line. Cuylle-Miller-Laf, Panarin-Trochek-AK

 

[SnowblindNYR]

If this organization really thinks it has a shot of making the playoffs they have to force Mika and Kreider to third line minutes. They’re both black holes and they kill any line they’re on. Make them a checking line. Cuylle-Miller-Laf, Panarin-Trochek-AK

I was sure that they would just demote Mika and put JT in his place and Mika in Chytil's old spot. But Laviolette has an inexplicable loyalty to Mika. I just don't get it. This is his second season as the Rangers' HC and he wasn't really that great of a player in either year. It's as if he's judging my contract and reputation.

 

[lakeshirts37]

If Luka can get traded, Fox can get traded. Time to rip off the band-aid. Don't tell I'm crazy. I am 50% crazy. You aren't concerned with the way Fox can't defend? It's not all on Lindgren. That was a nightmare yesterday afternoon. His offensive output has dried up. I don't care about assists. 22 primary. 15 secondary.

JT is here and he is a different animal than what the Rangers have. Put Cuylle's locker next to Miller.

Get rid of the remaining trash.

The rentals. It's a sellers market. EF said the rentals are going for first round picks and teams don't like this draft. Lindgren and Smith package deal. Acquire a first round pick and other draft pick assets. Miller can kill penalties. Slide him next to Trocheck. Move Schneider next to Fox.

Draft a defenseman in the first round



Time to reinvent the team.

honestly not totally opposed to it. If you can get a haul. I’d want a young 2RD and 2C, prospect with low floor high ceiling, 1st, conditional 2nd that can become a 1st

The best outcome for this team now, if you’d like to win a Cup, is for this team to make the playoffs and get embarrassed in the first round.

They have less than zero chance of winning it all with this bunch. But they’ve also been too good to fall to a good pick in the coming draft as we once hoped. But if they get too bad, they’ll end up picking like tenth this year and then worse next year and could give up an even higher pick to Pittsburgh.

The best scenario is that they coast through the end of this year, we give up the pick this year, and Drury is again taught the lesson that he needs to tear this group down.

why do you think theyll be worse next year? Fresh start without the Trouba nonsense + whatever moves Drury makes in the summer. I think the pick will be much lower next year

 

[DanielBrassard]

Trade Fox and the Rangers have the worst defense in the NHL with nothing coming through the pipeline.