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Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XV: Trading up or down? - Mod Warning post #450

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DutchShamrock said:
Maybe a straight swap but his value is low. Calgary needs to get good and we need to rebuild the system. I'll take a chance on a guy but you need to leverage desperate teams. Same for Domi.

I like these players but why throw either organization a life preserver when they all throw cinderblocks? No one is looking for a new MSG as far as I know. The Dolans are pretty secure. We'll print money even with the playoffs unlikely. Arizona gouged us repeatedly. It's not about getting even but learning lessons and being shrewd.

Push comes to shove I'd prefer Domi over Bennett and the 3rd would be in play for that.
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They would be adding the 3rd, not us. I think you are thinking we would add a 3rd.
 
BringBackLibertys said:
They would be adding the 3rd, not us. I think you are thinking we would add a 3rd.
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Ahhh crap. You're right. Disregard. That's a deal in our favor for sure.

Just consider Calgary though, no 1st or 2nd this year. No 1st next year. Bitter pill to swallow after drafting Bennett so high. Can't see them doing that deal.
 
DutchShamrock said:
Ahhh crap. You're right. Disregard. That's a deal in our favor for sure.

Just consider Calgary though, no 1st or 2nd this year. No 1st next year. Bitter pill to swallow after drafting Bennett so high. Can't see them doing that deal.
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True, they might not want to add the 3rd, but again, there are reclamations out there other then Bennett we could target, I was just saying that the deal @NYR Viper put up was exactly the type of deal I could see us making that would move Spooner along. They really screwed up with their picks though, I did not realize they traded away so much, and did not even make the playoffs.
 
Avery16 said:
Spooner gets you a first. Maybe not 6OA by himself, but he gets you a first for sure. Probably a little more, depending where that first is.
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I don't think so either. The guy is going to be 26--one year away from UFA. His high is 13 goals. He's making too much money and he's due for a contract this summer. He's got very good playmaking skills but he's a perimeter player with defensive issues. IMO if we could get a late 2nd for him we'd be doing okay.
 
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NYR Viper said:
Would anyone consider Bennett + 3rd for Spooner?
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Bennett's more valuable IMO than Spooner--so I would see the 3rd going Calgary's way. IMO Bennett has more upside to reach and he's a better all around player than Spooner is. I'm not sure Bennett's offense is ever going to come around that well but I'd be willing to gamble on him. What I've seen of him I like. If nothing else you get a pretty decent, dependable 3rd liner.
 
I like Sam Bennett by the way. He's got good skill. It just hasn't come out enough. He's about 3 and a half years younger than Spooner too. He's also a tough SOB when he wants to be. He bloodied Trouba pretty good in one fight and knocked down Josh Manson in another and these are guys that are a lot bigger than he is and Manson is a very serious customer. He will stick up for his teammates too. To me he would be a good addition and IMO Max Domi would to---though Domi is a diabetic and that's been an issue now and again with his energy.
 
You don’t trade spooner for a 2nd. You re-sign, let him compete, and trade for more. That being said, I’m right and you’re all wrong. He fetches a 1st now as-is.
 
eco's bones said:
Bennett's more valuable IMO than Spooner--so I would see the 3rd going Calgary's way. IMO Bennett has more upside to reach and he's a better all around player than Spooner is. I'm not sure Bennett's offense is ever going to come around that well but I'd be willing to gamble on him. What I've seen of him I like. If nothing else you get a pretty decent, dependable 3rd liner.
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Bennett is more valuable than Spooner? You’re talking about the same Bennett that has back to back 26 point seasons, correct?

Him being gritty doesn’t make up for Spooner being twice as good as him production wise.
 
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Rongomania said:
True, it is certainly going to be a whirlwind and a serious reality check to most on this board (draft day madness). I think Spoon would actually fit well on a lot of teams. We shall see...

Absolutely, I haven’t followed Necas much, but from what I’ve read he seems to be good but not ‘blow your socks off amazing’. Thanks for the info on Zykov- totally on my radar now. Spoon & Zucc are like exactly what Carolina needs.

As far as what you and the great @GregSirico have chatted about - I wish they’d take Skjei for #2 but I don’t want to give up #9 TOO and you know that’s what they want. And no on Zbad either, we need he and Kreider to continue their lovely chemistry.

Sucks, we don’t have enough/we shouldn’t be parting with what it takes for #2 but god damn do we need a blockbuster trade like that. Svech, to me, is the real f***ing deal. Though, Rongos gonna Rongo and we’d take Tkachuk at 2 and you all know we would !!

:laugh:
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Necas hasn't been that amazing for Kometa this season. I've been to a bunch of games (Brno is about an hour from Vienna) and never really noticed him. For his national team though, he has been great. Easily the most consistent and noticeable of the youngsters (Zadina, Chytil, Kaut). I think he will start next season in the AHL and make it to the NHL around December.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Necas hasn't been that amazing for Kometa this season. I've been to a bunch of games (Brno is about an hour from Vienna) and never really noticed him. For his national team though, he has been great. Easily the most consistent and noticeable of the youngsters (Zadina, Chytil, Kaut). I think he will start next season in the AHL and make it to the NHL around December.
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Always appreciated AK. Your scouting is always top notch.
 
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I think we trade Zucc for a mid 1st somewhere, and we walk away from this draft with the following from our 9th, Zucc pick, 26th, 30th, Rangers 2nd, Devils 2nd

9. Tkachuk or Boqvist/Hughes
15-20. Ty Smith if Tkachuk at 9, and Rasmus Kupari if Boqvist/Hughes at 9
26. Ryan McLeod - Possibly Jett Woo
30. Martin Kaut
40. Jan Jenik or Sampo Ranta
48. Oskar Back or Ivan Morozov
 
Avery16 said:
You don’t trade spooner for a 2nd. You re-sign, let him compete, and trade for more. That being said, I’m right and you’re all wrong. He fetches a 1st now as-is.
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Grabner didn’t get a first and he’s an overall Better player

Spooner gets a 1 year or 2 max deal. He helps w some offense then gets flipped for picks which is great asset management on the Nash deal

They took spooner and Belesky contract to get the 1st and a former 2nd round d prospect
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
I am really high on Kotkaniemi though. More than others I guess.
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So is Corey Pronman...

The entire article is behind a paywall so I can't post it, but here is a snippet for you to check out on Kotkaniemi

4. Jesperi Kotkaniemi, C, Assat-Liiga
July 6, 2000 | 6-foot-2 | 188 pounds
GP: 57 | Goals: 10 | Points: 29 | Shoots: Left

Skating: 50
Puck Skills: 65
Physical Game: 55
Hockey sense: 60

Kotkaniemi has been a top-six forward for his league team in Finland all season and had a very solid U18 season relative to his historical peers in that league. He was also very good during international competition, albeit being a late cut from Finland’s World Junior Championship team. He played center for Finland and was a winger for his pro team, but he projects as a center. Kotkaniemi has a lot of desirable elements. He has very good hands that are high-end, if not flashing elite. He can make very skilled plays off an entry, but what impresses me is how well he can control the puck and keep plays alive. With his frame and skill, it’s very hard to strip him of possession. He is also a very smart playmaker. Kotkaniemi sees the ice very well and can be the primary guy to set up along the wall on a power play and move the puck around. He understands how to create chances and isn’t afraid to attempt difficult plays. He prefers to make plays, but when he does shoot, I’ve liked his finishing touch. His skating isn’t amazing, but when I’ve seen him, his speed looks fine but his stride is a bit awkward. Defensively he’ll need to improve, like every young player, but I think he’s reasonably fine in that area and has shown he can be relied on at evens as a 17-year-old versus men. He has the best shot of any prospect in this draft class to be a No. 1 center.

Finland’s U18 coach Tommi Niemela said: “He plays the game not like anybody else. He sees the game differently. He tries to make a play in every situation. He sees only upsides, and no downsides, and that’s why his game is sometimes a little bit risky. He’s very skilled.”
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Brooklyn Rangers Fan said:
Woah. This is a bonkers take, IMHO. There are others I’d prefer somewhat at 9, as my amateur opinion is he’s a few spots outside the top ten in this draft, but Farabee is an EXCELLENT prospect.
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I think he is a good player, but not in the top tier of prospects here. I would not be happy with him at 9.
 
Alluckks said:
I do not want Farabee unless he is there at 26...
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I don’t get posts like that. I understand having a preference or otherwise for someone at #9, but saying that a prospect is fine at #26 while he’s widely acknowledged as someone reasonable at #9 is nonsensical to me.
 
What makes people think we can get #15 for Zuccarello, but think we can nab someone like Domi for one of our later 1sts?

If you could trade Zuccarello for Domi right now, would you?
 
Everyone is available except Henrik Lundqvist.

What is management's opinion of Pavel Buchnevich? What is his value around the league? Chris Kreider? Kevin Hayes?

Everyone must be looked at relative their value and contract situation. Buch is a player I wouldn't be terribly shocked if something was done with. Buch has very high potential -- but also work in front of him to get there. Its not going to be bump free transition when Quinn comes in in September drawing up the lines for how he wants his team to play. If Buch can come into camp being much more explosive packing more muscles, be a factor along the boards and with a scary shot -- the sky is the limit. Everyone can see that. But are we counting on that to happen? When Gorton makes his calls depending on what the return is people will want prime assets in return. Buchnevich is one of those prime assets, IMO Ryan Spooner and Names aren't.

Kreider is kind of our de facto captain. I think its a hard move to make. Like sure its one thing if someone really sets their eyes on Kreider and offer Gorton a bona fide great offer for Kreider. But my experience of NHL GMs is that they sometimes do that for centers or top Ds, although its rare, and even more seldomly for wingers...

We have depth at center going forward, but in October? Are we really dealing Hayes now without getting a center back? Going into the season with Ziba/Chytil/Lias/Howden/Boo at center is taking a big risk.
 
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