Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[Rangers in 7]

Borgen is better than Kakko. That's all I have to say.

I really don't see the Rangers trading a young roster player for JT. Why would the Rangers do that when Canucks lose leverage by the minute? It's not nothing that 2 fellow Americans in Demko and Boeser also now have no interest in returning to Van. With the cap rising, there is nothing in terms of futures I wouldnt trade for JT, but once you get into roster players you are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I do wonder if the Canucks sweeten the pot and add a Boeser or Garland to JT to get Lafreniere. Just spitballing, not endorsing.

You’re delusional if you think Borgen is better then kakko lol

 

[McRanger92]

bruh

?

 

[duhmetreE]

didn't watch the game last night... how did Provorov look?

and for some reason we lock PGT now

 

[Vitto79]

If JTM is added, upgrading Lindgren is a must. Don't half ass it. Whole ass it.

I'm gonna laugh when it's Gabe going to Vancouver

Nah Canucks are where NYR was a few weeks ago . JT is a problem for them it’s going to bee underwhelming which is why it probably stalled

 

[McRanger92]

You’re delusional if you think Borgen is better then kakko lol

Ive been called worse

 

[Rangers in 7]

Also if the rangers trade laf for a 32 year old miller it’s going to go down as one of the worst trades we’ve ever made

 

[bernmeister]

I see your point but I am in the camp of get to the dance and anything can happen. Lindgren needs to be replaced though.

while bold is technically true in a vacuum, as a practical matter it is not.
gotta have the horses
need surplus in case of injury, bad luck
trading youth to prop up vets = foolish win now that bern has properly discredited

we and 99% agree on Lindy

I dont think there is a physical decline with him. His skating is still explosive. Watch the recent breakaway chances from the Utah game and tonights game. A couple of those he even had to battle for the puck and create the breakaway himself. The short handed one against Utah and the 1st one in OT tonight where he won a board battle and skated free.

Also, the sequence before the Michigan attempt where he dangled the defender like it was nothing.

Nah, its all mental with him.

nope
it is not a given that his repeated failure to finish is mental not physical
[what good are the breakaways if you turn into Gene Carr and can't put the puck in the ocean, let alone a net?]

But indisputably, he is not physically holding his own on defense, which is costing us
Naysayers on that point gotta change gears and tell it like it ACTUALLY is

Chytil, Sykora, Chmelar and a lottery protected first round pick for a soon to be 32 year old JT Miller signed until 2030 with an $8M cap number. Vancouver clears out the money and moves on. The Rangers must love the 2011 draft because Mika, Miller and Trocheck were all 2011 draft picks. All of them turn 32 this year. Five more seasons of Mika and JT. Four more seasons of Trocheck. Does Panarin get an contract extension? Why not? Keep Kreider for two more seasons. Dave Maloney was complaining about the Rangers not having any oomph in their game. The old legs are tired and they needed Igor to be all world.


Lafreniere is hoping he gets his get out of jail card too.

no, too much
I said we should move zib for pieces
this is the shoe on the other foot

I get 1:1 is problematic.

In a vacuum, I'd prefer as a rule going young
If we give up scraps+ for JTM and he serves as irritant to help dislodge Mika, I could be good with that as a one off exception
We may have to move JT later on, possibly closer to home = PIT.
If that is the case we will deal w/that later

Obv when we move Mika we will likely eat half and not get much back

same here

I think we can do 2 deals here instead of 1 larger one but consider this a package
remember VAN presently has just under 1.5 cap space

deal 1
Lindgren max retained to 2.25 + Vesey + Ruwhedel
for
Desharnais + VAN 7th which gets upgraded to a 2026 1st if they make this season's POs

this favors VAN in that they cap dump an unproductive pylon w/an extra yr for an upgrade + min useful depth


Deal 2:
Borgen, Smith, Sykora, McConnel-Barker, Groulx
for
JTM + 2025 2nd

they will hope Smith is enuf stopgap add in top 6, while Borgen is a move to upgrade D now and possibly beyond
good prospects for def depth offset loss of picks

Rs will take a hit on losing Borgen, call up Mancini, + hope for the best
JT will help here now
but like I've said, while there is still no protection in place
Fox, Shesty, bread, sell high for lots of primo quality youth
dump mika first chance
old men Kreider + JTM complement young core

 

[TGWL]

Borgen is better than Kakko. That's all I have to say.

I really don't see the Rangers trading a young roster player for JT. Why would the Rangers do that when Canucks lose leverage by the minute? It's not nothing that 2 fellow Americans in Demko and Boeser also now have no interest in returning to Van. With the cap rising, there is nothing in terms of futures I wouldnt trade for JT, but once you get into roster players you are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I do wonder if the Canucks sweeten the pot and add a Boeser or Garland to JT to get Lafreniere. Just spitballing, not endorsing.

Right now the trade is benefiting both teams. Kakko wasn't going to be a near point per game player here. They couldn't just move vets and toss him in the spot and say "We hope it works out" while they're trying to compete. Borgen was struggling as well. At the end of the day, both got a scenery change and are better for it. We probably would have been much better off having Borgen last post season over Kakko and that's how you have to look at it. What we had vs what we now have. Not what another team gets out of that player.

There's no point being upset at Kakko producing right now. Fans can create a cloud of excuses why it wasn't happening, but the only thing that really matters now is that it wasn't happening. The best outcome is that Borgen continues to earn a contract here.

 

[noncents]

?

how can we trade lindgren for a top 4 LD with size? i would love to do that, i just don't see how it gets done without adding significantly. who would you target in that kind of deal?

 

[MrAlmost]

I don't know if they are going to get Miller or not, but I know it won't be for Laf. If it is, the Rangers will likely lose much of the fan base. Not like permanently, but they will check out on them.

It will likely be the guys mentioned from Hartford plus Chytil. A first wont be included. The Rangers arent bidding, they are buying, and right now Miller's price is low and only available to one team. I'd rather it be Z, but thems the breaks.

The cap will be north of 95 million next season.

They are going to resign Borgen and Miller.

Lindgren is still the thorn. Walman for Lindgren? Lindgrens younger and Sharks may view that as a plus, as well as his leadership and relationship with Goodrow. They also have some offensive D coming up that will take the PP time.

 

[duhmetreE]

That deal doesn't make sense to me. IMO Drury will add to the roster without taking from it. I'm surprised Berard is not involved, that's who'd I want.

but if we somehow can add JTM and a top4LHD to the roster without taking away from it.... We might have something. I still fully expect to be disappointed but at least it makes it interesting.

Panarin JTM Laffy
Cuylle Zibs Chytil
Kreider Trocheck Smith

Upgrade Fox
KAM Borgen
Vaak Schneider

much better roster

 

[McRanger92]

Right now the trade is benefiting both teams. Kakko wasn't going to be a near point per game player here. They couldn't just move vets and toss him in the spot and say "We hope it works out" while they're trying to compete. Borgen was struggling as well. At the end of the day, both got a scenery change and are better for it. We probably would have been much better off having Borgen last post season over Kakko and that's how you have to look at it. What we had vs what we now have. Not what another team gets out of that player.

There's no point being upset at Kakko producing right now. Fans can create a cloud of excuses why it wasn't happening, but the only thing that really matters now is that it wasn't happening. The best outcome is that Borgen continues to earn a contract here.

Im happy for Kakko. It was clear he was not giving max effort for a while toward the end of his tenure here. From the clips Ive seen in Seattle its obvious. Im happy with the trade. Borgen seems to have saved K'Andre Miller, which is an added bonus to his own induvial solid play.

 

[bernmeister]

Thinking about exactly what it is that sickens me about the idea. And it's that trading those promising young guys for Miller confirms that this is who we are. We're the franchise that can attract superstars, so that's what we do.

We don't build cohesive teams, we don't develop uber talented young guys, we don't win cups. We sign big names and pat ourselves on the back. It's depressing.

they can't learn w/da bern
until they listen

 

[TGWL]

Surging Rangers will face plenty of distractions again with trade deadline coming​

Mika Zibanejad, who missed two breakaways in overtime (four now in the Blueshirts’ last OTs), was stoned on his shootout attempt and didn’t come close on a Michigan attempt during regulation, will not be part of the bounty going to Vancouver in a potential deal for Miller.

Seems like an odd thing to push out in a negative way. I've ripped on Zibanejad quite a bit but I have no problem with him attempting that and trying to make something happen.

Last night, Rangers didn't get a lot done in the first period, but they were attacking the middle more and trying to get passes through to point blank chances rather than just cross ice. The end result didn't work out as they just missed the puck a few times. But I'm not going to shit on them for at least trying to make something happen there. Same with this. It was a good attempt by Zibanejad.

 

[McRanger92]

how can we trade lindgren for a top 4 LD with size? i would love to do that, i just don't see how it gets done without adding significantly. who would you target in that kind of deal?

I more, mean get him out, and someone else in. Not necessarily trade for each other.

 

[Fitzy]

Kreider and Zibanejad will be gone this summer, with or without JT. Kreider possibly sooner.

I think the Rangers d-core needs one more move. Borg/KAM is performing like a top pair. Vaak/Schneider performing like a really good bottom pair. If the Rangers turn Lindgren into a top 4 D with size and add JT for futures, they are capable of winning the Cup this year. The D has already improved leaps and bounds on one that was good enough to go to 2 ECFs in 3 years (with help from Igor of course)

For Kreider and Zib- maybe. I've been being told for 4 months that my desire to move Zibby is a pipe dream. Kreider for all we know will be a LTIR guy next season while his back heals for the playoffs. Lots of moving parts.

Borg/KAM is possibly on a hot steak. Whether they can become a functional 2nd pairing is a valid question, but still very much a question. And as I say a lot and many others here have the same idea- Borgen should be starting on the 3rd pairing if the goal is to have a cup competing roster. We really need a 25 minute guy on the left side to push everyone else besides Fox down a slot.

IDK how the Rangers would turn Lindgren into something better without adding a substantial asset. I als othink NYR would have to make the kind of mega-deal they're currently looking at for Miller for a 1D instead. We don't really have the assets for both. A Yandle type move helps us a lot.

I respect your perspective but I think you're reading too much into an improved stretch of play from the D which may be an streak, not a trend, or at the very least a combination of the two.

Vaak and Lindgren are both 7th defensemen in the regular rotation. We HAVE to fix that. And that's before we talk about getting the power play back to where it needs to be- which is 27%+ for this team to be competitive. Right now we are 18%, bottom 10 in the league.

 

[Vitto79]

For all the Kakko talk, Borgen and Miller together has really steadied the defense, and been a huge part of the Rangers turnaround this month.

Can’t get swooped into a small sample obviously, but really do wonder if he’s going to keep and pay Borgen.

Borgen over Trouba anyway and half the price . If this keeps going I’m sure Borgen will want to stay aswell

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I pray to god NJ swoops in here and makes a dynamite offer to Vancouver and saves Drury from himself

 

[McRanger92]

I don't know if they are going to get Miller or not, but I know it won't be for Laf. If it is, the Rangers will likely lose much of the fan base. Not like permanently, but they will check out on them.

It will likely be the guys mentioned from Hartford plus Chytil. A first wont be included. The Rangers arent bidding, they are buying, and right now Miller's price is low and only available to one team. I'd rather it be Z, but thems the breaks.

The cap will be north of 95 million next season.

They are going to resign Borgen and Miller.

Lindgren is still the thorn. Walman for Lindgren? Lindgrens younger and Sharks may view that as a plus, as well as his leadership and relationship with Goodrow. They also have some offensive D coming up that will take the PP time.

This is not getting enough airtime. If JT is going to demand a trade to "only the Rangers", he better do it soon. Because if the trade isnt on Drury's terms, im not all that interested right now. We are finally winning and committing to defense. Why dont we wait this out. Unless JT wants to be a Ranger on Tuesday at the Garden, there's nothing to talk about. Im not trading Laf fro him, just because the Canucks front office covets him and Schneider. Laf's old agent is the assistant GM, Soft tampering anyone??

 

[duhmetreE]

Make it make sense.....

Add Walman or a Provorov....

 

[DuneGoon84]

Drury has to go, trading a young player in Kakko over other vets here was the final straw. Either you blow it up and trade all the vets or you ride it out and get canned. He succumbed to the BS pressure and went after the ez trade. I am really starting to despise this franchise.

 

[RGY]

Lol Borgen is not better than Kakko no matter how well Borgen has played as a stay at home defenseman. I mean cmon people

 

[MrAlmost]

Really happy for Kakko. He is playing great and I kinda like Seattle's team.

Honestly, Rangers didn't deserve it. They f***ed around and now they find out. If they trade Laf it will be the same and cement what is widely known. Always pretenders, never contenders.

 

[DuneGoon84]

Make it make sense.....




Add Walman or a Provorov....

.makes no sense for the lopsided stats between the 2.

 

[bernmeister]

guys enough with the kakko stuff in this thread. he sucks.

we don't need to hear every time he farts, has a 3pt night, or goes ~ppg for 15 games. his team isn't even winning.

it's a dead cat bounce. a small sample size. a hot streak. pdo and s% are unsustainable. his attitude issues will resurface. his skating necessarily limits his utility and ability in this league. he can't pass. muffin shot. teammates who score normally don't produce when they play with him. he's allergic to producing. he's bad on the PP.

he's a one trick pony. he possesses the puck and humps the boards but doesn't create any offense. his defense is overrated. hes never even PKed.

multiple cup winning coaches and he's gotten scratched in the biggest games of the year multiple times. we're not seeing what they are. you think it's an accident?

he sucks. he's soft. he's not well liked in the room. he's too quiet. he's selfish for speaking out to his own benefit. his health issues prevent him from performing at peak athletic level.

he had his chance here. time and time again we'd see him get an opportunity higher in the lineup and he failed to produce. we traded buch to give him a spot and he lost it to colin blackwell and kevin rooney. whatever he accomplishes elsewhere, for whatever reason he was never going to do that here.

he needed the trade to play better. he needed the wake up call. he had maturity issues. he couldn't perform under the pressure. he couldn't handle nyc. he needed a smaller market. he sucks.

if you care more about Kakko than NYR, go to the Kraken board. all of our minds are made up on what this player is, we will not revisit or revise that opinion.

take it to the other thread.

NO TO THE MAX
it is necessary that the folly of dealing KK be brought up REPEATEDLY so Rs mgmt will learn

we will vent here as each of us may desire

NO ONE OF US SPEAKS FOR THE REST OF US

Borgen is better than Kakko. That's all I have to say.
....

there are 2 mathematical possibilities here [excluding if we presume not = value, one must be better].

guess again