Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[will1066]

Don't speak that into existence.

I'm manifesting abundance

 

[effen]

I don’t understand why people think Kakko doesn’t compare to Buchnevich.

Buchnevich developed for 5 years (21-25) at the NHL level and never cracked 21 G or 48 P. Was traded before his age 26 season.

Kakko developed for 5.5 years (18-23) and never cracked 18 G or 40 P. Was traded at 23 midseason.

Both were guys the team was grooming to be a top 6 RW.

Both were traded for less than their perceived future value.

The only difference is Buchnevich was consistently mid and Kakko dealt with injuries and Covid so his production was less. Kakko was arguably a more effective player, putting aside points, than Buch was with the Rangers.

Buchnevich played on the 1st line on and off for years. What is this gaslighting lmao

 

[TominNC]

I always appreciated that Bern uses this thread for exactly what it is: a thread where posters waste their time playing NHL Be a GM mode and cook up trades and signings in their head that won't happen 99% of the time.

At least Bern's creative about it.

Still a waste of time

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I don't know, I tell @bernmeister he's crazy all the time, and I never found him combative about it.

You've never seen him ranting and raving about his haters as if he's the President of the United States?

 

[Machinehead]

You've never seen him ranting and raving about his haters as if he's the President of the United States?

I don't think he's that serious about it.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I don't think he's that serious about it.

I think people underrate him. I had a convo in DMs once thinking he'll drop the persona and he was exactly the same way.

 

[nyr2k2]

Reilly Smith is excellent. Always has been and will be until he's too old. A player I've admired for a long time.

The guy is a Honda at even strength. It's not a Lambo, but he's as reliable as the day is long. Drives play in the right direction like clockwork.

He would have been a hell of a move if we were better equipped to contend this year.

Yeah Reilly Smith I think has a chance to exceed the predicted return I posted. He can play in all situations and he still has some upside offensively. I can see a team really liking him and thinking he can be an all situations forward who can provide pop in the middle six and going to a second, or a second plus a mid prospect for him.

 

[Machinehead]

I think people underrate him. I had a convo in DMs once thinking he'll drop the persona and he was exactly the same way.

Oh, it's 100% real. I met bern, he's a good guy. Very creative.

What I mean is, I don't think he really dies on the hill. I do. I take things personally. I find bern very chill.

 

[Machinehead]

Yeah Reilly Smith I think has a chance to exceed the predicted return I posted. He can play in all situations and he still has some upside offensively. I can see a team really liking him and thinking he can be an all situations forward who can provide pop in the middle six and going to a second, or a second plus a mid prospect for him.

He's the total package in terms of an attractive deadline offer.

He's actually good, he's got intangibles that he can actually back up, and he's also got intangibles that you can spin (he's a #veteran now!)

 

[bhamill]

In my opinion, people are entitled to have a bit of fun in roster building. If it's too rich for your blood, you don't have to engage with it.

Exactly. I have to be in a certain mindset to digest some of the roster "creativity" I see on here. Wild or no, it's not hurting anyone. I just scroll right past.

I would have appreciated it a lot more if his posts were in jest like Ed's are. But he's 100% serious and rants and raves about his haters when people tell him they're unrealistic.

WAIT... @EdJovanovski is kidding?!?
What next? Santa isn't real?

You've never seen him ranting and raving about his haters as if he's the President of the United States?

President ELECT for a few more days...

 

[NYR Viper]

He's the total package in terms of an attractive deadline offer.

He's actually good, he's got intangibles that he can actually back up, and he's also got intangibles that you can spin (he's a #veteran now!)

And he appears to be a low maintenance player who could play with pretty much anyone

 

[EdJovanovski]

I don’t understand why people think Kakko doesn’t compare to Buchnevich.

Buchnevich developed for 5 years (21-25) at the NHL level and never cracked 21 G or 48 P. Was traded before his age 26 season.

Kakko developed for 5.5 years (18-23) and never cracked 18 G or 40 P. Was traded at 23 midseason.

Both were guys the team was grooming to be a top 6 RW.

Both were traded for less than their perceived future value.

The only difference is Buchnevich was consistently mid and Kakko dealt with injuries and Covid so his production was less. Kakko was arguably a more effective player, putting aside points, than Buch was with the Rangers.

This is missing a lot of context lol, in Kakko’s case he never even paced for more than a 40pt season. Buch had 48pts in 53gp, that season he was nearly a PPG and one of the best PK’ers in the league. Even the season before that had 46 in 68 (55pt pace), season before that 49pt pace, season before that; 48pt pace.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This is missing a lot of context lol, in Kakko’s case he never even paced for more than a 40pt season. Buch had 48pts in 53gp, that season he was nearly a PPG and one of the best PK’ers in the league. Even the season before that had 46 in 68 (55pt pace), season before that 49pt pace, season before that; 48pt pace.

Buch also played in a lower scoring league. I can't stand when people only bring up points and not games played to try to win an argument. It's so sleazy.

 

[TGWL]

I don’t understand why people think Kakko doesn’t compare to Buchnevich.

Buchnevich developed for 5 years (21-25) at the NHL level and never cracked 21 G or 48 P. Was traded before his age 26 season.

Kakko developed for 5.5 years (18-23) and never cracked 18 G or 40 P. Was traded at 23 midseason.

Both were guys the team was grooming to be a top 6 RW.

Both were traded for less than their perceived future value.

The only difference is Buchnevich was consistently mid and Kakko dealt with injuries and Covid so his production was less. Kakko was arguably a more effective player, putting aside points, than Buch was with the Rangers.

We just gonna' pretend that he didn't play only 54 games in that season, pace for 55 the previous season, or or pace above .5 in every season but his first where he played 41 games and had 20 points?

The difference is Buchnevich skated and was better.

I see the stat comparison was already addressed. It wasn't happening here with Kakko. Fans need to get over it. You could have put him on the 1st line every game and it wasn't happening.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think people underrate him. I had a convo in DMs once thinking he'll drop the persona and he was exactly the same way.

He’s committed to the role.

The persona is hilarious IMO. He’s out there but I totally picture him kicking back with a glass of scotch and snickering at some of the responses to him.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

He’s committed to the role.

The persona is hilarious IMO. He’s out there but I totally picture him kicking back with a glass of scotch and snickering at some of the responses to him.

I don't see that. Maybe I'm projecting because I'm 100% authentic. I do in fact flip my shit at goaltenders and the Rangers.

 

[JohnC]

He’s committed to the role.

The persona is hilarious IMO. He’s out there but I totally picture him kicking back with a glass of scotch and snickering at some of the responses to him.

It's made even funnier if you assume it's Bernie Sanders behind the keyboard

 

[bhamill]

We just gonna' pretend that he didn't play only 54 games in that season, pace for 55 the previous season, or or pace above .5 in every season but his first where he played 41 games and had 20 points?

The difference is Buchnevich skated and was better.

I see the stat comparison was already addressed. It wasn't happening here with Kakko. Fans need to get over it. You could have put him on the 1st line every game and it wasn't happening.

We also aren't comparing them at the same ages/stage of development when we talk about what year in the league they were. for instance Buch scored 20pts in 41 games in his D+4 (his first NHL season) and Kakko scored a comparable 40pts in 82 games in his D+4. Buch had a much better D+5 than KK, while Kakko had a major knee injury. Their D+6's Buch scored 0.59PPg Kakko is currently at 0.54PPG overall, but 0.75PPG with Seattle. We will have to see if he maintains that.
The real difference is that Buch was way more accomplished by the time he was traded. Kakko may or may not be similarly accomplished at 25 (the season after which we traded Buch), but the fact is he was NOT as accomplished as Buch when dealt.

 

[JohnC]

I would have appreciated it a lot more if his posts were in jest like Ed's are. But he's 100% serious and rants and raves about his haters when people tell him they're unrealistic.

Bern is a much more appreciated member of this board than Ed Jovo is. I’ve been here for 12 years and Bern’s been a mainstay the entire time.

Ed Jovo is user Pavel Buchnevich if they decided to stay here instead of running away to the main boards.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Not much here.
Ranger/Hockey talk doesn’t start until the 9 minute mark.
Jim Cerny Forever Blue Shirts Podcast:

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Bern is a much more appreciated member of this board than Ed Jovo is. I’ve been here for 12 years and Bern’s been a mainstay the entire time.

Ed Jovo is user Pavel Buchnevich if they decided to stay here instead of running away to the main boards.

I don't think so. Pavel Buchnevich takes his opinion very seriously and thinks he's an expert. Ed Jovo has weird takes that he clearly doesn't take seriously and some of his more serious takes are more WWE than NHL. But he's very different than the self styled scout Pavel Buchnevich. Also, I used to dislike PB but I've seen growth in his posts and don't cringe anymore. Wouldn't mind him back here.

Also, I was 100% sure you were going to say that Bern is a much more appreciated member of this board than me, lol.

 

[nyr2k2]

Ed is a pain in the ass but a lovable one who also doesn't take himself too seriously. He's a-ok in my book.

User Pavel Buchnevich tried to pretend he's an expert on every prospect on the planet. You could be like, PB, what's your take on Doofie Gribelsborg, currently playing in the German third division? And he'd tell you he has excellent puck skills but needs to work on his edges and his stride, probably an AHLer but could make it as a 3LW if things break right for him. He's totally full of shit and thinks his "evaluations" are infallible. HFNYR got a lot better when he ran off to the main board.

 

[mike14]

Isn't Festivus the Monday before Christmas? Why are we suddenly doing the airing of grievances now, and in this thread?
Not that I'm against it, just curious

 

[bernmeister]

Peter Baugh wrote an article for The Athletic where he projected what our guys might get.

For Lindgren, he said he might be worth a 2nd to a desperate team. He mentioned EJ and Edmundson and that we could possibly retain. Also said a 2nd is probably higher than they'd get.

For Reilly Smith he pegged it as a 3rd or 4th. Mentioned Duclair deal and Jack Roslovic last year.

For Vesey he said it's probably a 5th or 6th. He mentioned guys like Pat Maroon and Anthony Beauvillier as comps.

On Will Borgen, he said the team has a dilemma as he's probably the most valuable player but they also want to bring him back. He didn't specificy a return but based on what he said for others, you'd think a second or more.

Jones he said doesn't have much value on the market.

Vaakanainen he compared to Ruhwedel and said he may be worth a 4th or around there. He also said the Rangers might want to hold onto him.

Everyone be reasonable with their expectations for these guys if they are moved. Borgen I agree is the most valuable and the rest aren't worth much.

kudos to @nyr2k2 for reporting this
general agree think Jones does not have much value but not negligible

I think an effective strategy here would be to add lesser picks to these guys and upgrade

I think asking for a 2nd for Lindgren and Smith isn't that outlandish honestly though. I often feel that there is a disconnect in people's thoughts when it comes specifically to 2nd rounders. An early 2nd rounder is what most people peg the value of any 2nd rounder to but that's a pick from 32-40. 40-62 I think have very different value. A late 2nd for a player like Lindgren is reasonable, especially if it's 50-62. Same goes for Smith.

Smith is a very good 2-way winger who also PK's. Duclair has some sort of cloud hanging over him. No team that he has been on has wanted to hold on to him and defensively, he's severely lacking. Roslovic is the same.

I think the other ones are right on. 5th or 6th for Vesey.

there is no way a team gives a 2nd for Lindgren alone unless they are desperate
like coupla yrs ago, Bruins had like 4-5 guys out all at once kinda desp

stop wasting time, cut the deadwood
see where we are on Borg-meister
maybe he will take a decent but not crazy $$ deal now if we give longer term, again bern mantra, no nmcs ever, reasonable ntcs only
that allows us to use now and flip as needed for profit

I think you're confused about the word constructive. The word you are searching for is delusional.

1. sez you
2. You are another one of a handful of detractors who never say anything nice, esp never admitting when I am right.
Your whole avatar with Boo Nieves truther is testament to what I'm saying

Right or wrong, there was zero reason for Rs not to try Nieves experiment as I outlined.
They were factually worse off for not trying.

Like everyone else, I do make mistakes, but I am happy to rely on my record, incl but not limited to:
keep not trade Kreider [some wanted to do this back at the beginning]
no on rentals
no on nmcs
no on self renting guys like Buch and then expecting something when all that is left is a shred of rfa status
yes on dealing vets for quality youth to admit reality of need to have team depth while managing cap

I could go on, and all of these hold up under scrutiny
but the last one in bold is particularly unchallengeable given reality of cap, and your failure to admit to that reality identifies THAT IT IS YOU, NOT ME, WHO IS DELUSIONAL.

I am an accomplished wordsmith; you apparently, not so much.
To quote/paraphrase the great Ringo Starr [no time to check lyric verbatim]:
"Get yourself together now and give me something tasty
Everything you've tried to do, you know it just sounds wasted."

When you have something accurate, and of substance, pls do share
til then, kindly don't overreach/misrepresent

I always appreciated that Bern uses this thread for exactly what it is: a thread where posters waste their time playing NHL Be a GM mode and cook up trades and signings in their head that won't happen 99% of the time.

At least Bern's creative about it.

I appreciate the acknowledgement about creativity.
I do not and have never claimed to be our best/most esteemed poster, only our most creative/outside the box

As to cooking up trades that "won't happen 99% of the time" I am guilty as charged, but that imo is not necessarily a waste.
Arguments have been made we capitulate to whatev Dolan wants to do, which suggests a pattern of short term going all in = cannibalizing = long term ongoing probs
I am correct to stand up vs that
Let Dolan learn from me
I am available to consult for NYR

Hey now! My sexy flamingos after playoff wins is one of the most substantial contributions this board ever seen.

My legacy is safe.

now THIS^ is delusional.

I guess if you want to call preposterous ideas creative.

Trading key players before their contract protection kicks in. Acquiring over the hill D only to pencil them in at wing. Dolan f***ing buying Staal's house to facilitate a trade. Trading everyone over 25 for his current player fixations minus over the hill, ineffective Kreider. Calling up absolute failures that have proven they can't cut it and saying the team needs to live with "growing pains."

"preposterous" is yr opinion, which to have is yr right; howev, when you do not substantiate it, YOU are the one who deserves to have shade thrown back in yr face.

Yet again I must break you of these false notions as being correct.
Context matters:
Trading key players before their contract protection kicks in.
1. They should not have excessive contract protection to begin with; I have lectured about this for years AND FINALLY, FINALLY MOST OF THE BOARD ADMITS I'M RIGHT even if silently.
2. I would rather do that than accept the consequence.
This varies by player and situation, but on balance I am confident I will be upheld.

Acquiring over the hill D only to pencil them in at wing.
This is disingenuous, and you REALLY need to be slapped hard for this.
If I remember correctly, there were a couple of these. One was, e.g., taking back Chara and moving an immobile Girardi to Boston. In the circumstances we benefitted from greater roster flexibility and/or better cap mgmt. However, you conveniently do not mention this and promote what is tantamount to a lie out of context. FOR SHAME
SHAME

Dolan f***ing buying Staal's house to facilitate a trade.
You don't think that kind of shit goes on under the table every now and then? Maybe not overtly, but don't doubt it does

Trading everyone over 25 for his current player fixations
While there are exceptions to every rule, we are seeing that as a rule, youth and stamina >> vet experience, esp in POs
stop denying it
bend buckle and break to admit to the truth

minus over the hill, ineffective Kreider.
Kreider is not oth.
He's on/off dealing with real back issues which by nature, plausibly, are on off
And btw it is STUPID to just want to ditch him for less than max return [assuming dealing him makes the most sense, which is not a given yet] when we are likely to get a better return this off season
Howev, we are best served by making other deals and seeing how he meshes with them

Calling up absolute failures that have proven they can't cut it and saying the team needs to live with "growing pains."
Yes, that is what other teams do, they are responsible for developing youth, including growing pains

Kravtsov, I can see why we had to move him.
But Robertson has never been given a real chance
EFF Rs MGMT

ya’ll talk to much shit about Bern

Lighten up, it’s a hockey forum. You’re not running a team

Thanks my good man.
Unfortunately, as per the saying, sometimes all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

Peeps who wanna throw shade at me need to be shown I give as good as I get and then some.

"Weird sex stuff" is not inherently bad.
Bern believe he does.

bern says what he believes and believes what he says
AND I BACK IT UP
which is more than can be said for you

I would have appreciated it a lot more if his posts were in jest like Ed's are. But he's 100% serious and rants and raves about his haters when people tell him they're unrealistic.

Again, you say unrealistic.
Pt is, the post mortem shows I WAS USUALLY CORRECT
Therefore you lose that argument.
I enjoy a good laugh as much as the next guy
but if mental masturbation is to be avoided, it would be best if posters attempted serious upgrade of the roster, and explain how, and substantiate to the degree possible

I don't know, I tell @bernmeister he's crazy all the time, and I never found him combative about it.

And that is not b'c you are a mod.
That is b'c there is an acknowledgment that we each have a fundamental right to an opinion; what comes after that is buoyed be the extent to which it is substantiated.
Peeps may agree/disagree.
But I show a rationale
You may still disagree, but you respect where I am coming from

Still a waste of time

That is a matter of perspective based on whether or not what I am saying holds up under scrutiny.
Usually it does.

You've never seen him ranting and raving about his haters as if he's the President of the United States?

The more YOU rant and the more YOU rave
makes you sound less like a king
and more like a knave

Oh, it's 100% real. I met bern, he's a good guy. Very creative.

What I mean is, I don't think he really dies on the hill. I do. I take things personally. I find bern very chill.

Thanks
and I am chill to a pt,
love is given, respect is earned, and I have appreciation for those who make an effort to hear me, even if we disagree

It is for the others, for those I am forced to ask you, why do permit scoundrels to falsely denigrate my op?
Or as Michelangelo might have said it:

He’s committed to the role.

The persona is hilarious IMO. He’s out there but I totally picture him kicking back with a glass of scotch and snickering at some of the responses to him.

Some good scotch for you my friend
Grand Marnier or Drambuie or B&B for me

Quote McCartney, Picasso's Last Words:
Drink to me, Drink to my health, you know I can't drink any more...

It's made even funnier if you assume it's Bernie Sanders behind the keyboard

View attachment 962015

you get a like for the funny on this, HOWEV
context matters
I never said in a vacuum make Nieves 1C, regardless of linemates
I said put him between Kreider and Zib as his Ws, regardless of what # line that is for us

 

[kovazub94]

25 year old in the khl having a good year, think his name is Kravtsov lol

Good for 18 y/o you mean. He hasn't improved in any stat from when he was D+1