Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[Machinehead]

you don't know what you're talking about

Thanks for the advice, I'll take that under consideration.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

@mike14 it was just a crazy long streak of NYR not getting a regular player out of someone not drafted from the first round. From drafting Buch in 2013 to like Cuylle basically

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

The problem with the Buchnevich trade is that it wasn't like the McDonagh trade where the prospects just didn't pan out. At his best Blais was a good 4th liner and a 2 is not a 1. So there was literally nothing that could have been done to get even close to equal value for Buch.

I will support bringing this trade up every day until people just ignore it or stop making veiled attempts at defending it

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I will support bringing this trade up every day until people just ignore it or stop making veiled attempts at defending it

But also we don't need to compare every trade to this trade. Kakko is not Buchnevich.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

But also we don't need to compare every trade to this trade. Kakko is not Buchnevich.

I didn’t scroll up enough to see that comparison if it was made but it’s not Buch level bad. Although Kakko is having a good season and I have no idea how they looked at him and were like yeah we don’t want that in our top 9 in any capacity.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I didn’t scroll up enough to see that comparison if it was made but it’s not Buch level bad. Although Kakko is having a good season and I have no idea how they looked at him and were like yeah we don’t want that in our top 9 in any capacity.

I mean if we keep Borgen and he plays well or trade him for a second round pick plus two more picks is it really a big deal? Kakko is not some non-NHLer or even 4th liner but his worth as a player is just not consistent with the response.

 

[mike14]

@mike14 it was just a crazy long streak of NYR not getting a regular player out of someone not drafted from the first round. From drafting Buch in 2013 to like Cuylle basically

There was 4 drafts between Shesty ('14) and Jones/Edstrom ('19) where the only player we got outside the 1st round that's done anything at NHL level was Barron.
And of the 6 1sts we had over the same span only 2 are still with the org (Miller an Chytil)

 

[Savant]

I mean if we keep Borgen and he plays well or trade him for a second round pick plus two more picks is it really a big deal? Kakko is not some non-NHLer or even 4th liner but his worth as a player is just not consistent with the response.

Yes it’s a big deal. The asset management is so criminal, it would be in a white collar prison.

 

[17futurecap]

Pretty funny/sad we used to worry about a cap crunch coming with all the high draft picks we had after their ELC’s ended, and now we basically don’t even have enough players left that even need to be paid.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yes it’s a big deal. The asset management is so criminal, it would be in a white collar prison.

Not really it's totally plausible that Borgen is an equivalent player or close. Kakko is nothing special. Only reason people are throwing a fit was his draft position that he has never and will never live up to.

 

[noncents]

Thanks for the advice, I'll take that under consideration.

not advice. what you're saying isn't true, and i know it for a fact.

 

[Savant]

Not really it's totally plausible that Borgen is an equivalent player or close. Kakko is nothing special. Only reason people are throwing a fit was his draft position that he has never and will never live up to.

Kakko was traded for pennies on the dollar because of Drury didn’t like an interview that he did. Besides that, there was no reason at all to move him, especially not for Will Borgen who is a dime a dozen expiring contract. It was way too early to move him, and there were plenty of guys that should have been moved first

 

[LOFIN]

Kakko was traded for pennies on the dollar because of Drury didn’t like an interview that he did. Besides that, there was no reason at all to move him, especially not for Will Borgen who is a dime a dozen expiring contract. It was way too early to move him, and there were plenty of guys that should have been moved first

Way too early, OR way too late. Trading him was not the wrong decission per se, it was the timing.

 

[mike14]

Kakko was traded for pennies on the dollar because of Drury didn’t like an interview that he did. Besides that, there was no reason at all to move him, especially not for Will Borgen who is a dime a dozen expiring contract. It was way too early to move him, and there were plenty of guys that should have been moved first

It's slightly poetic that this describes both Borgen and KK

 

[Savant]

Way too early, OR way too late. Trading him was not the wrong decission per se, it was the timing.

I mean, he was a third of our best line during the team’s best part of this season; a line that still grades out as one of the best at 5x5 in the NHL. We threw that away because of the GMs ego. I’m not having that we just had to do whatever it took because Will Borgen was this essential piece. Get real. Trouba trade more or less eliminated the cap issues, and nothing we’ve done since then makes any sense

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Kakko was traded for pennies on the dollar because of Drury didn’t like an interview that he did. Besides that, there was no reason at all to move him, especially not for Will Borgen who is a dime a dozen expiring contract. It was way too early to move him, and there were plenty of guys that should have been moved first

Kakko is a dime a dozen himself. You're really overrating him because of draft position.

 

[SeanAveryTheGreatOne]

I'm not worried about Dolan at all. He's just vibing. He's 69 years old (nice) and this team that he probably bought for like $6 is worth 3.5 billion. He's not as involved as he used to be.

When you tell him "let's spend $20 million and the rebuild I promised will be over" and then the team still sucks, he might notice.

Hell, this guy might have the longest fuse in the NHL right now. Glen Sather was still employed until June.

If anything, I'm concerned that Dolan hasn't blown his fuse enough at the people running this team.

This might be the stupidest post I've read on this site, and that's saying a lot.

Like @noncents said, it flatly isn't true that Dolan "isn't as involved." He was the one who made the decision to fire Rammer, just as one example. He's the one who implemented the harsh anti-press rules, as a more recent one.

Your citation of Sather having a long tenure is because of Dolan's involvement: he notoriously plays favorites hardcore, and he has a love affair with Glen. He is infamously short-tempered and governs solely based on how much he personally likes someone.

I don't think you said a single correct thing here. Dolan wasn't even the one who "bought" the team - he became CEO of daddy's Cablevision in 1995, and MSG shares (50% of them) fell into Cablevision's lap a year earlier.

 

[RangerBoy]

Pierre LeBrun reported Dallas will be big buyers. Tyler Seguin is out with the hip injury. The Stars have not placed Seguin on LTIR. They are accruing cap space right now. PuckPedia has them with $5.7M of cap space at the deadline. They can get more space with Seguin's money on LTIR. $9.85M. Dallas will wait until after the 4 Nations to make their moves. Top six forward and maybe another forward and top 4 D.

LeBrun mentioned Brock Nelson. I hope Lou re-signs Nelson. Many teams will be interested in Nelson. Only one team can trade for him. I read the Devils are interested in Nelson.

Dallas had interest in Kreider in 2020. $6.5M. He is not a rental. Borgen or Lindgren would fit. Dallas moves Miro to the right side and lines up with Lindell, Lindgren and Harley on the left side.

The Athletic is having another team prospect ranking and Dallas is near the bottom.

What could the Rangers acquire from Dallas besides a late first round pick in 2025? Winnipeg probably wins that division. Mavrik Bourque is starting to find his footing in the NHl. Does Dallas trade him? They seem to like him by moving Johnston off his natural spot in the middle to RW. Bourque is playing in the middle. Their big Swiss D? Probably not.

Dallas is probably not on Kreider's list.

Kreider and Lindgren to Dallas for Bourque and a 1st round pick in 2025.

 

[surlysailor]

If it were up to me, my approach would be:

• Get a top prospect close to the NHL (preferably at D) and a first for Panarin at 50% retained at the deadline
• Get a first for Kreider
• Trade Lindgren for a second or similar
• Opportunistically listen on Trocheck, but I want a big return if we're trading him
• Turn the keys over to Lafreniere, Perrault, and Chytil on the offensive side and see what shakes out with ice time
• Have 20 real NHLers on the roster-- build depth in lieu of stars
• Get ready for a big free agency splash if it's available in 2026

All for this, but i do think drury should be trying to pry higher tier prospects vs 1st round picks for kreider. They need the depth sooner than drafting a late first (esp in a potentially weak draft) that will take 3-4 years to get a sniff at the nhl.

 

[surlysailor]

Kreider and Lindgren to Dallas for Bourque and a 1st round pick in 2025.

This would prob be the trade, or replace Bourque w/bicshel. Colorado could also be interested in ck maybe something around Ritchie & gulyayev or 1st(would prefer gul if possible)

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This might be the stupidest post I've read on this site, and that's saying a lot.

Like @noncents said, it flatly isn't true that Dolan "isn't as involved." He was the one who made the decision to fire Rammer, just as one example. He's the one who implemented the harsh anti-press rules, as a more recent one.

Your citation of Sather having a long tenure is because of Dolan's involvement: he notoriously plays favorites hardcore, and he has a love affair with Glen. He is infamously short-tempered and governs solely based on how much he personally likes someone.

I don't think you said a single correct thing here. Dolan wasn't even the one who "bought" the team - he became CEO of daddy's Cablevision in 1995, and MSG shares (50% of them) fell into Cablevision's lap a year earlier.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but do you have an actual source on Dolan firing Rammer?

I don’t remember if this is the case or not, but I’m at least 60% sure that rumor came out of Reddit fan fic that was proven to be false. It could have been other ridiculousness that was proven to be false but I seem to remember this falling in there too but it’s been a while.

The Dolan involvement is overblown though. He has no idea wtf is going on.

 

[bernmeister]

Pretty funny/sad we used to worry about a cap crunch coming with all the high draft picks we had after their ELC’s ended, and now we basically don’t even have enough players left that even need to be paid.

Not really it's totally plausible that Borgen is an equivalent player or close. Kakko is nothing special. Only reason people are throwing a fit was his draft position that he has never and will never live up to.

Disagree
Not yet/not likely to be elite? Seems to be the case so far -> moving forward
But he is/still has enuf upside to be regarded as high end
He was foolishly discounted when others esp Zib and Lindy are the main probs

Kakko was traded for pennies on the dollar because of Drury didn’t like an interview that he did. Besides that, there was no reason at all to move him, especially not for Will Borgen who is a dime a dozen expiring contract. It was way too early to move him, and there were plenty of guys that should have been moved first

Almost 111% verbatim strongly agree.
Give Borg credit as more than a dime a dozen
rest of it spot on

Pierre LeBrun reported Dallas will be big buyers. Tyler Seguin is out with the hip injury. The Stars have not placed Seguin on LTIR. They are accruing cap space right now. PuckPedia has them with $5.7M of cap space at the deadline. They can get more space with Seguin's money on LTIR. $9.85M. Dallas will wait until after the 4 Nations to make their moves. Top six forward and maybe another forward and top 4 D.

LeBrun mentioned Brock Nelson. I hope Lou re-signs Nelson. Many teams will be interested in Nelson. Only one team can trade for him. I read the Devils are interested in Nelson.

Dallas had interest in Kreider in 2020. $6.5M. He is not a rental. Borgen or Lindgren would fit. Dallas moves Miro to the right side and lines up with Lindell, Lindgren and Harley on the left side.

The Athletic is having another team prospect ranking and Dallas is near the bottom.

What could the Rangers acquire from Dallas besides a late first round pick in 2025? Winnipeg probably wins that division. Mavrik Bourque is starting to find his footing in the NHl. Does Dallas trade him? They seem to like him by moving Johnston off his natural spot in the middle to RW. Bourque is playing in the middle. Their big Swiss D? Probably not.

Dallas is probably not on Kreider's list.

Kreider and Lindgren to Dallas for Bourque and a 1st round pick in 2025.

Does Dal want Lindy, esp w/its cap picture?
Lindgren + lesser pick to Minny Wild + higher pick

Also, stop rushing Kreider out the door
Either he is worth keeping or we are better off trading him BUT
BUT it is clear as day IF we do deal him
we are better off dealing him later when better health ups his value

bread is the fit for DAL
bread 5.6+ retained = 6 per
3rd team [ana?] further retain paid by DAL
to Stars
for Bisch + 1st

This would prob be the trade, or replace Bourque w/bicshel. Colorado could also be interested in ck maybe something around Ritchie & gulyayev or 1st(would prefer gul if possible)

yes but also replace Kreider w/bread
bring up Otthmann now, create roster space for Gabe P next season

 

[leetch99]

There was 4 drafts between Shesty ('14) and Jones/Edstrom ('19) where the only player we got outside the 1st round that's done anything at NHL level was Barron.
And of the 6 1sts we had over the same span only 2 are still with the org (Miller an Chytil)

I had mentioned in a previous thread that the Senators in a game a week or so ago had 6 guys they drafted from 2020 playing in that game . That is a club we are chasing .Three of the players were first round picks one of them was Greig who just signed for a new 3 year deal at 3.5? per.....of the 6 I know for sure they hit 3 home runs on the first rounders . Stutzle-Sanderson . Good drafting and then developing does help .

 

[bernmeister]

If Igor were making 9.5 mil, would anyone be saying that? Will that 2-mil difference really stop us from acquiring a 1C? The cap is going up significantly over the next couple years. That "overpayment" won't make much of a difference.

Mika is much more of a problem than Igor, because if we are somehow acquiring a 1C, removing Mika becomes a necessity. Of course, the largest issue in all of this is finding a 1C. There aren't many out there, and teams don't like to give them up.

agree/disagree [cart before the horse thing]

b'c cap, we can't easily just add someone then dump Mika after the fact, even if he cooperated
ergo
must move Mika first
this is why I've said
stop trying to force VAN to capitulate on a 1:1 with jtm
send zib half retained for pieces
create a slot here, and when we get somebody we want to add, we have room

zib saying no BUT
I get the feeling IF it was PUBLICLY disclosed beforehand that deal is to his satisfaction in that if he doesn't like VAN, they will attempt to move to a preferred relocation beginning as early as this offseason

I could see Elias Pett + for Dobson +
I could see jtm somewhere, possibly here

but key is get zib gone now
also do Fox to OTT and Shesty + Tro to LA for huge hauls including young pivots

 

[UnparalledPark]

This might be the stupidest post I've read on this site, and that's saying a lot.

Like @noncents said, it flatly isn't true that Dolan "isn't as involved." He was the one who made the decision to fire Rammer, just as one example. He's the one who implemented the harsh anti-press rules, as a more recent one.

Your citation of Sather having a long tenure is because of Dolan's involvement: he notoriously plays favorites hardcore, and he has a love affair with Glen. He is infamously short-tempered and governs solely based on how much he personally likes someone.

I don't think you said a single correct thing here. Dolan wasn't even the one who "bought" the team - he became CEO of daddy's Cablevision in 1995, and MSG shares (50% of them) fell into Cablevision's lap a year earlier.

If you think this is one of the stupidest posts you’ve read, you must be new here.