Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[Clark Kellogg]

Kreider is going to make sure that he continues to be hurt enough that no club will take a chance on him ......he is not stupid and does not want to leave .

I’m with you. He might have a case of the TDL Flu?

 

[Siddi]

no we can not

My post was not targeted towards you. Crazy and logic dont mix.

 

[alkurtz]

Back injuries can be debilitating, especially when they become chronic, They never truly go away. Wasn't Adam Graves' career cut short by a back injury? In baseball, weren't Keith Hernandez and Don Mattingly's careers also shortened by back problems?
The thought that CK is making all of this up or using it somehow to manipulate his time here is absurd.

 

[McRanger92]

I think I would pass on Rantanen and save the cap space for Eichel or McDavid if they ever get to UFA. If they trade Zibanejad for Miller they could always slide Miller to the wing if they ended up with either of them. I’d sign Orlov or Gavrikov to play with Fox. I know orlov is 34 but he’s really good and he’s the type of D you could see maintain his play for a few more years. Trade Kreider for a 1st plus trade all the rentals for whatever. Add some draft capital and cap space.

Sign Orlov and Gavrikov. Orlov is really a perfect veteran partner for Fox. Defensive game has slipped in recent years imo but he can still skate and move the puck.

 

[NYR Viper]

Probably 6ish

I'm game for a cap hit around there

I'm HOPING Gavrikov will also be in the $6's...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Back injuries are of a different breed.....especially intermittent ones . I'm pretty sure it would not be hard to say....my back is acting up and I'll err on the side of caution and sit this one out . It's not something a club interested in getting him would want to hear /see.....more than once and then see him sit some games out . They watch games as well before they make deals .....unlike the Rangers . Maybe the drugs they give him have stopped working ? He has looked dopey /lethargic all season and most shift just our for a skate to keep his blades from rusting . Anyways...time will tell ....

And if the issues don't exist they'd just be like "yeah thats cute, get out there."

You don't really just drug your way through back issues, at least in the regular season.

 

[McRanger92]

And if the issues don't exist they'd just be like "yeah thats cute, get out there."

You don't really just drug your way through back issues, at least in the regular season.

Kreider seems like an LTIR case. Im fine with it. Dont need to know the seriousness of the injury to know he's playing like shit and at half speed. I want his minutes to go to our young guys. Call up Othmann.

 

[NYR Viper]

Probably Trocheck money. His ceiling is 50 points and currently sitting at -14.

I dont even understand why some people want him as a Ranger.

Because like Trochek, he has an inner fire and competitive style of play that the team needs. My main concern with Bennett is health.

The guy who I am intrigued by in terms of the contract he gets is Trent Frederic. He's having a piss poor offensive season (12 points in 42 games) but appeared to be on an upward trajectory last year with 40 points over 82 games. I could see a scenario where the Rangers don't like Bennett's price tag but circle back to a more affordable Frederic who scores a 4-5 year deal @ $3.5m or so. He'll be 27 next season so he's a young UFA

Kreider seems like an LTIR case. Im fine with it. Dont need to know the seriousness of the injury to know he's playing like shit and at half speed. I want his minutes to go to our young guys. Call up Othmann.

Othmann needs about 2-3 weeks of consistently healthy minutes in the AHL before they push him to the NHL. I don't want him coming up after being out for a month or two and playing 6-8 minutes with no PP time.

 

[McRanger92]

Because like Trochek, he has an inner fire and competitive style of play that the team needs. My main concern with Bennett is health.

The guy who I am intrigued by in terms of the contract he gets is Trent Frederic. He's having a piss poor offensive season (12 points in 42 games) but appeared to be on an upward trajectory last year with 40 points over 82 games. I could see a scenario where the Rangers don't like Bennett's price tag but circle back to a more affordable Frederic who scores a 4-5 year deal @ $3.5m or so. He'll be 27 next season so he's a young UFA



Othmann needs about 2-3 weeks of consistently healthy minutes in the AHL before they push him to the NHL. I don't want him coming up after being out for a month or two and playing 6-8 minutes with no PP time.

Bennett's price tag is going to be one of a guy who expects top 6 minutes. I feel like we went down that road with Goodrow. We're paying him for his past battles. Frederic I like. New coach and new contract making him have a down year. Still young. I remember the Rangers being interested in him when they traded Rick Nash. They need another player like Frederic in the lineup. 6'3 220 and he can play and fight. It will allow the rest of our guys to play bigger. Mathieu Oliver is another really good player who is a UFA who fits the mold.

Im willing to wait on Othmann a couple more weeks but I think he is another guy who can add to the Rangers compete level.

 

[bernmeister]

My post was not targeted towards you. Crazy and logic dont mix.

I repudiate your attempt to control the narrative.
Your disparaging inference that I am crazy and you are the logical one does NOT check out.

You may disagree, which is a right we all share; but I make extended effort to substantiate what I say and not merely post pure opinion.

Consider yourself fully rebuffed.

Back injuries can be debilitating, especially when they become chronic, They never truly go away. Wasn't Adam Graves' career cut short by a back injury? In baseball, weren't Keith Hernandez and Don Mattingly's careers also shortened by back problems?
The thought that CK is making all of this up or using it somehow to manipulate his time here is absurd.

This is esp so since in addition to doing the same stuff on the rest of the ice, he is asked to take a beating in front of the net for tip ins

 

[leetch99]

Back injuries can be debilitating, especially when they become chronic, They never truly go away. Wasn't Adam Graves' career cut short by a back injury? In baseball, weren't Keith Hernandez and Don Mattingly's careers also shortened by back problems?
The thought that CK is making all of this up or using it somehow to manipulate his time here is absurd.

If that is so and the team docs know it then the question then is why is he playing and not on LTIR at this point ? Look at his numbers ....that alone should be proof enough and or his lack of compete level or overall skating .....it would be the easiest way in the World one would think to heal him enough for the playoffs and allow us to bring a guy in that could play for at least this year via a trade or whatever . Hopefully they can use the same drug twice on him.....the one he took in Carolina game was very good .....maybe just a one time use drug ????

 

[leetch99]

Throwing it out there as it could be a new name in the game and Bruin fans tell me that they would move him in a deal if they clean house . McAvoy & Frederick for ?????? There would be conditions ....discuss them and the guys going back in return because no human being could could cover every scenario in one post LOL....Fire away .

 

[Machinehead]

Throwing it out there as it could be a new name in the game and Bruin fans tell me that they would move him in a deal if they clean house . McAvoy & Frederick for ?????? There would be conditions ....discuss them and the guys going back in return because no human being could could cover every scenario in one post LOL....Fire away .

This is one of the scenarios where the other team hangs up if the offer doesn't start with Perreault.

 

[noncents]

hate to say it but it sounds like Rangers have made the big moves they will make this year: Kakko, Goodrow, Trouba the captain with a revamped bottom pair.

Jones I could see moving for a 4th. if you squint, maybe Smith goes for a 3rd to a contender so Othmann gets a spot?

But i don't even think that happens. Rangers think they can make playoffs as a WC, they think they're more like the Presidents trophy team than pre-christmas break team.

Only other thing I could see them doing is trying to get beefier/grittier up front. Chytil for Frederic type move, that's Drurys type of guy. As dynamic as Chytil looks i don't think Dolan responds to his name brand and they're probably looking to get out from under the deal with further head injury looming. Theyd slot brodzinsky in between cuylle and berard i guess?


but all of this talk of retooling, reloading, rebuilding, it's not happening. We're still more likely to trade our 1st for a Bjugstad than acquire another one. Ours will be a middle of the pack 1st so won't get anything too crazy.


Kreiders back is a thing. He's not getting moved. Trocheck is the emotional leader, he's not getting moved. Panarin and Zibanejad are the teams skill core, they're def not getting moved. Fox Laf and Igor are the future, they're not getting moved. Borgen was targeted, not getting moved.

I advise those advocating or fantasizing about selling the farm, or tenured and salaried veterans, to acquire young assets to rethink whether this team would actually do that. It's just not a possibility.

Upside is this team isn't as bad as they've played, and they're swinging back to their normal: Zibs will get hot, they'll find something on the PP, and goaltending will cover up the mistakes. It's how we're built.


Besides, we don't have the asset base to really start another youth movement. Look at what other teams in our division are doing - Caps have a young coach, rebuilt defense, and Leonard/Hutson coming. they have 2 2nds, 2 3rds this year. Columbus has extra picks and some big talents coming. hurricanes stay stacked obviously. isles are lost but what else is new.

point being we are not built to reload - we're built to win now. as much as we all love to acquire young hopeful assets, i'm convinced we blunder on and likely try to add forward grit and size at the expense of speed and skill. This is the Dolan mandate.

 

[alkurtz]

If that is so and the team docs know it then the question then is why is he playing and not on LTIR at this point ? Look at his numbers ....that alone should be proof enough and or his lack of compete level or overall skating .....it would be the easiest way in the World one would think to heal him enough for the playoffs and allow us to bring a guy in that could play for at least this year via a trade or whatever . Hopefully they can use the same drug twice on him.....the one he took in Carolina game was very good .....maybe just a one time use drug ????

Because hockey players are a different breed, the culture is you play through injury. Back issues come and go: some days you feel fine, others you don't. It doesn't seem like he has a totally, complete herniated disc. It's probably bulging. If you've ever had a back problem you know what I mean.

Not being privy to his medical issues, none of us really can diagnose him. As for drugs, sure, muscle relaxers can most definitely make you groggy. All other pain meds (aside from really strong narcotic stuff), like NSAIDs, don't. Back injections don't.

You know what? Instead of being on his case, maybe we should give him credit for trying to play through pain and injury rather than taking time off. Whether that is out of loyalty to his teammates or his own work ethic, I certainly don't know, and neither do any of you.

No doubt, he is consulting with the Ranger medical staff, therapists, and trainers, on a daily basis. The time may come for him to go on LTIR, but that will be a medical decision made by Ranger doctors.

He is certainly struggling out there, no doubt about that. I have little doubt that he wants to play every game. Hockey players are tough. Maybe the time will come when either admits he can't or the team medical staff says it's time to give it a longer rest, both for his sake and the team's sake.

I'm applauding him for playing through pain, not condemning as so many here are wont to do,

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I can't with these HFDocs posts this morning.

 

[Machinehead]

I can't with these HFDocs posts this morning.

A guy having a moderate injury and the team saying "welp, he died" to do cap shenanigans is believable.

A guy pretending to be hurt and his employer going "oh ok" without looking into it is not.

 

[NYR Viper]

Lian Bischel is the guy I target if I'm the Rangers. He's playing ~13 minutes a night on a Dallas team looking to make a run. They have Seguin who will likely be on IR until the playoffs so they have cap space to make a big move or two. They're playing Bischel and Lundkvist, neither of whom they appear to give much runway to and Dumba, who they signed as a UFA hasn't worked out as they hoped.

Heiskenen
Lindell
Harley
Lyubushkin

If they get in to a long first or second round playoff matchup they are going to run these guys in to the ground.

They have Robertson and Marchment on LW. Benn appears to be playing more center.

Package deal:

Panarin + Borgen for Bischel + Bourque + Dumba + DAL 1st '25 + DAL 1st '26 + DAL 2nd '25

The Rangers retain half of Borgen's salary

The Rangers get their future LD they absolutely need along with some draft picks, the Stars get a top-4 RD who plays a physical style as well as one of the best forwards and offense creating players in the world for (2) playoff runs.

 

[noncents]

Lian Bischel is the guy I target if I'm the Rangers. He's playing ~13 minutes a night on a Dallas team looking to make a run. They have Seguin who will likely be on IR until the playoffs so they have cap space to make a big move or two. They're playing Bischel and Lundkvist, neither of whom they appear to give much runway to and Dumba, who they signed as a UFA hasn't worked out as they hoped.

Heiskenen
Lindell
Harley
Lyubushkin

If they get in to a long first or second round playoff matchup they are going to run these guys in to the ground.

They have Robertson and Marchment on LW. Benn appears to be playing more center.

Package deal:

Panarin + Borgen for Bischel + Bourque + Dumba + DAL 1st '25 + DAL 1st '26 + DAL 2nd '25

The Rangers retain half of Borgen's salary

The Rangers get their future LD they absolutely need along with some draft picks, the Stars get a top-4 RD who plays a physical style as well as one of the best forwards and offense creating players in the world for (2) playoff runs.

love the get here, agreed Bichsel is a piece to build with. I think your return is outrageous here tho. if Panarin waived it would look more like:

Panarin (25%) + Borgen
for
Bichsel + Dumba + '25 2nd + '26 1st



otherwise, Kreider 50% retained + Borgen + '26 3rd for Bichsel+Dumba + '25 2nd is all we'd get

 

[bernmeister]

If that is so and the team docs know it then the question then is why is he playing and not on LTIR at this point ? Look at his numbers ....that alone should be proof enough and or his lack of compete level or overall skating .....it would be the easiest way in the World one would think to heal him enough for the playoffs and allow us to bring a guy in that could play for at least this year via a trade or whatever . Hopefully they can use the same drug twice on him.....the one he took in Carolina game was very good .....maybe just a one time use drug ????

because it is possibly something that is not 24 hrs / 7 days / constant
On good days he may be able to work thru it.


And let's go easy on the drug

 

[bernmeister]

Lian Bischel is the guy I target if I'm the Rangers. He's playing ~13 minutes a night on a Dallas team looking to make a run. They have Seguin who will likely be on IR until the playoffs so they have cap space to make a big move or two. They're playing Bischel and Lundkvist, neither of whom they appear to give much runway to and Dumba, who they signed as a UFA hasn't worked out as they hoped.

Heiskenen
Lindell
Harley
Lyubushkin

If they get in to a long first or second round playoff matchup they are going to run these guys in to the ground.

They have Robertson and Marchment on LW. Benn appears to be playing more center.

Package deal:

Panarin + Borgen for Bischel + Bourque + Dumba + DAL 1st '25 + DAL 1st '26 + DAL 2nd '25

The Rangers retain half of Borgen's salary

The Rangers get their future LD they absolutely need along with some draft picks, the Stars get a top-4 RD who plays a physical style as well as one of the best forwards and offense creating players in the world for (2) playoff runs.

agree on this one, in essence; something around bread for Bisch

I would be open to a sep deal on Borgen

Unfortunately, w/only 1.4m cap space likely need a 3rd team
I would do Panarin close to max retained - 5.6+ = even 6m per
presum to ANA for 5 seconds, who retains another 2.5 x 2 this season and next

DAL has to pay ANA for that
Under Marleau standard that is 1 5th for next season and something less for a current half season.

Rs get Bisch. + 2 1sts sooner and DAL gets 2 2nds down the road

that is enough for us and not too much Ss can't swallow

 

[NYR Viper]

love the get here, agreed Bichsel is a piece to build with. I think your return is outrageous here tho. if Panarin waived it would look more like:

Panarin (25%) + Borgen
for
Bichsel + Dumba + '25 2nd + '26 1st



otherwise, Kreider 50% retained + Borgen + '26 3rd for Bichsel+Dumba + '25 2nd is all we'd get

Maybe I'm high, but if you break out those pieces individually I think that's not enough. Especially considering Dumba is a pure cap dump with a year left on his deal

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Teams are not going to trade for Kreider, his back injury is basically a full NMC

 

[Machinehead]

Maybe I'm high, but if you break out those pieces individually I think that's not enough. Especially considering Dumba is a pure cap dump with a year left on his deal

Idk, a 1st, a 2nd, and an excellent prospect who's already playing well in the NHL seems fair or Panarin.

Plus, there's probably a condition where that 2nd becomes a 1st if they make the Finals or whatever.

 

[noncents]

Maybe I'm high, but if you break out those pieces individually I think that's not enough. Especially considering Dumba is a pure cap dump with a year left on his deal

Smart teams do not trade prospects with high ceilings for veterans.

I asked this yesterday when everyone was hemming and hawing that we'd trade Bread, Lindgren, Trocheck, Kreider, Smith and Vesey and receive all picks in the first 3 rounds for the next 4 years:

Which high end or elite-ceiling prospect (at time of trade) in the past 3 years has been moved for a veteran?