Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[UnSandvich]

I don't get the Emery pick, the only way I take that kind of skillset is with 100% lock guarantee he makes the NHL. If you wanna tell me they get a gtd 10 years of NHL play out of the 30th pick on the 3rd pairing, fine. Anything less than that he's just not good enough.

But he doesn't really seem to have upside beyond that. It's a lot of capital to invest in a pretty weak best case scenario.

There are definitely NHL level things in his game. His skating would be a plus even at the NHL level. But i just don't buy the idea that he's going to be a long-term Top 4 type option, the total package isn't there.

 

[GAGLine]

I'm all for swapping Mika (+ Lindgren?) for JT Miller, but if Vancouver has pause on Mika then who's taking on that full contract? EP instantly solves our 1C problem. Pair Miller with Fox and we solve our 1LD problem. We know that pair works well together.

1C isn't fixed as long as Mika is here. Miller hasn't been the answer at 1LD this year. Why would he be next year?

In this scenario, you've traded away Schneider, so we've got to sign a 2LD, a 2RD, a 3LD and a 3RD.

Reilly Smith will be gone. Kreider and Panarin are both getting older and their contracts will run out within the next couple years. We can trade them, but it will take time before we see a return on that investment.

By the time we have a team that's actually capable of winning, Petersson will be in his 30s and probably pull a Mika.

We arent winning period this will at least be new and interesting

I'll take smart and patient over new and interesting. New and interesting is why we don't win.

 

[effen]

There are definitely NHL level things in his game. His skating would be a plus even at the NHL level. But i just don't buy the idea that he's going to be a long-term Top 4 type option, the total package isn't there.

Seems like new era John Moore. We already saw what that looked like, we scratched it a lot and yeeted it.

 

[McRanger92]

People are going a bit insane when the miller stuff.

The more reputable people seem to think he’s going to end up else where if he ends up moving at all

We can safely assume the Canucks and Rangers are talking. 2 Presidents with a history of being aggressive during the season and mounting pressure to do something. I like JTM obviously and have for years because the locker room needs a no BS leader.

However, if Pettersson is even remotely available, thats the guy to get. He's another mope but it seems like most of that is JT specific. The upside is so high on Pettersson. Guys like that are only available with warts like Eichel and Tkachuk were. I wouldnt even mind keeping Mika and Kreider because i almost think Pettersson would be a guy who could get them going again. Too me the big "Brady T" level swing by Drury is trading Lafreniere and Schneider for Pettersson. That's probably the cost.

 

[effen]

I think the Rangers path to sustainability is pretty clearly to nuke the vets from orbit and make 1 hockey trade out of Laf, Miller, or Schneider for something the team doesn't have. 2 year timeline to reload.

 

[GAGLine]

I like the majority of what Drury has done as a GM (FIGHT ME) but his whiffs are really bad.

1) Igor deal is objectively terrible for lots of reasons well covered
2) Paying 2 2nds to get rid of Nemeth was giving away like 200c on the dollar, he only made $2.5M/2 yrs.
3) Paying a 2nd to ditch Marc Staal was similarly jaw droppingly stupid when that 20-21 team was never going anywhere ever. I have no idea what they did with that $5M. (this is Gorton but he wears this).

I don't consider the Buch trade a whiff in that I get the thought process, it just spectacularly flamed out. Process over results.

What about all the picks he wasted on rentals? Not only has he not signed any of the guys he has traded for, but he traded for the same guy twice, and then didn't re-sign him either time.

The only player he has traded for who is actually still on team is Smith, but he'll be gone by the summer, if not sooner.

Edit: Borgen and Vaak now too, but they'll probably both be gone in short order.

Where's the long-term plan? I'm not seeing it.

 

[toNYRico]

Why do folks love Laf so much? You move him in any deal that makes NYR better today and tomorrow. I'll drive him to Vancouver myself if dealing him lands us EP. I think some overvalue Laf and don't see how much of his production / offensive ceiling is directly tied to playing with Panarin. EP is elite at both ends.

 

[JohnC]

What about all the picks he wasted on rentals? Not only has he not signed any of the guys he has traded for, but he traded for the same guy twice, and then didn't re-sign him either time.

The only player he has traded for who is actually still on team is Smith, but he'll be gone by the summer, if not sooner.

Where's the long-term plan? I'm not seeing it.

It’s been entirely about the short term. In fact, I don’t see how anyone at this point can believe that Dolan didn’t just start axing management until he got to the first guy that was willing to sacrifice any long term thinking for the short term.

Gorton and JD may have cut the rebuild short, but Drury dropped the hydrogen bomb on what was left.

 

[Levitate]

I mean...pics on rentals is one of those things where if you're trying to go for it and succeed then they're worth every penny. If you go for it and get far then at least it's "well, it almost worked out"

To some extent they're not wasted because there's always "what if it they had done it" attached and it's mostly just hindsight telling us "oh it was a waste".
If you never go for it you probably never win it, and Drury was decent at not giving up 1st rounders for ridiculous players. The one I most criticize him for is Kane and I feel like that was forced on him. It just changed the focus of the team too much IMO, that one never really felt like a fit.

e: I still think people are a bit pessimistic or hard on what the team accomplished. Two ECF appearances and a Presidents trophy in the past 3 years is a huge success for most teams. It wasn't just a fluke that happened. Yes, it imploded spectacularly this year and we could see the cracks, but I think too man ypeople here think there' somehow this easy formula of "just do these things and then you'll know the team is cup ready and doesn't need anything else and that's when you go for it" and it's far far more fluid and uncertain than that.

 

[effen]

What about all the picks he wasted on rentals? Not only has he not signed any of the guys he has traded for, but he traded for the same guy twice, and then didn't re-sign him either time.

The only player he has traded for who is actually still on team is Smith, but he'll be gone by the summer, if not sooner.

Where's the long-term plan? I'm not seeing it.

They were really flush with assets when he started, and I don't care about picks in a vacuum. Where he messed up is in aggregate, it's been too much. A bunch of busts and disappointments makes this look a lot worse than it should have been.

I also strongly think the Kane trade was forced on him. Another 1st rounder would add some rosy feelings for sure.

 

[duhmetreE]

I saw more from Laffy this past playoffs than I did EP... jus sayin

we need to be built to win championships, not regular season games

IMO Laffy is the type of player you win with.

I'd move KAM or Schneider in a package for EP.... but Zibs has to be going the other way. I'm not getting stuck with that contract. That'd be 43.2M in Panarin, Pettersson, Igor and Mika. That core doesn't win you a cup imo

 

[toNYRico]

I saw more from Laffy this past playoffs than I did EP... jus sayin

we need to be built to win championships, not regular season games

IMO Laffy is the type of player you win with.

Who was the last Stanley Cup Champion without an elite 1C?

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Who was the last Stanley Cup Champion without an elite 1C?

Didn't you know the Rangers are getting that in Hagens at the draft this summer.

 

[McRanger92]

Who was the last Stanley Cup Champion without an elite 1C?

Do people consider JT Miller an elite one C? Im honestly curious.

I think Pettersson is a Eichel/Tkachuk level talent and no one else on the Rangers is. They should make a run at him.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Someone said it here yesterday but Drury would lose a Pettersson trade so bad I’m not even sure I want to imagine what it would cost.

That mixed with the fact that Vancouver isn’t going to deal him without a clear win in the deal, it’s got disaster written all over it.

It’s been entirely about the short term. In fact, I don’t see how anyone at this point can believe that Dolan didn’t just start axing management until he got to the first guy that was willing to sacrifice any long term thinking for the short term.

Gorton and JD may have cut the rebuild short, but Drury dropped the hydrogen bomb on what was left.

Yeah, would love to know what he said that kept Dolan from firing him. i imagine it was something to the effect of “I know what to do to help this team right now”

 

[GAGLine]

Who was the last Stanley Cup Champion without an elite 1C?

How many times has Petersson won the cup?

Obtaining him isn't a guarantee of anything, nor is not obtaining him.

I agree we need a 1C. I don't agree that we have to trade 2 of our good young players to obtain the very 1st one that becomes available.

 

[grachevsceiling]

What about all the picks he wasted on rentals? Not only has he not signed any of the guys he has traded for, but he traded for the same guy twice, and then didn't re-sign him either time.

The only player he has traded for who is actually still on team is Smith, but he'll be gone by the summer, if not sooner.

Edit: Borgen and Vaak now too, but they'll probably both be gone in short order.

Where's the long-term plan? I'm not seeing it.

I think he’s going to overcorrect for the effort problem and basically build the team around Fox, Perreault, and Igor; and surround those guys with feisty forwards like Berard and Cuylle and big brawny D. I think there’s a good chance they don’t actually put enough talented forwards in the mix though and the D still has trouble moving the puck. But I hope I’m wrong.

 

[duhmetreE]

Who was the last Stanley Cup Champion without an elite 1C?

STL in 2019.

EP has immense talent and potential but he's not on Crosby, MacKinnon, Barkov, Point level imo... as in he's not leading the team offensively in big games/playoffs. Could he be that guy? sure, he has the talent. Will he be that guy? I honestly don't know and with our track record, I would lean on him disappearing in the playoffs like all of our 'stars' before him.

I'd be more confident in a JTM/Tkachuk type of player in the playoffs. All of those Centers I mentioned above, would you say they have the same mindset/attitude as EP?

 

[McRanger92]

Acquiring a top line center is an ancillary issue to fixing the defense.

I watched a clip of K'Andre's game on twitter. He actually looked very good defensively outside of that ridiculous delay of game and some lackadaisical plays with the empty net. He and Borgen did a good job against Pasta/Marchand line. Borgen is like Trouba but he can skate well and will go back and forth with the other team's top players.

Lindgren continues to be an obvious area to upgrade. Bruins got McAvoy a 6'6 angry russian to play with and we have a jack russell terrier. Getting another top 4 d should be the priority because if you get a guy who can take the load off Miller, it's the best move for his development and the team.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

STL in 2019.

EP has immense talent and potential but he's not on Crosby, MacKinnon, Barkov, Point level imo... as in he's not leading the team offensively in big games/playoffs. Could he be that guy? sure, he has the talent. Will he be that guy? I honestly don't know and with our track record, I would lean on him disappearing in the playoffs like all of our 'stars' before him.

I'd be more confident in a JTM/Tkachuk type of player in the playoffs. All of those Centers I mentioned above, would you say they have the same mindset/attitude as EP?

ROR was an elite 1C that year

 

[toNYRico]

STL in 2019.

EP has immense talent and potential but he's not on Crosby, MacKinnon, Barkov, Point level imo... as in he's not leading the team offensively in big games/playoffs. Could he be that guy? sure, he has the talent. Will he be that guy? I honestly don't know and with our track record, I would lean on him disappearing in the playoffs like all of our 'stars' before him.

I'd be more confident in a JTM/Tkachuk type of player in the playoffs. All of those Centers I mentioned above, would you say they have the same mindset/attitude as EP?

ROR definitely was elite during their run in '19 and won the Conn Smythe. I'm all for acquiring JT Miller but Mika needs to be the main piece going back to Vancouver in that deal. Maybe people think I'm insane for wanting EP so badly.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

How many times has Petersson won the cup?

I agree we need a 1C. I don't agree that we have to trade 2 of our good young players to obtain the very 1st one that becomes available.

Depends on how high you value EP. Eichel didn't win a Cup either, before being traded to Vegas, so that argument doesn't hold.

EP has shown incredible talent and put up huge numbers already in the league. He's definitely an elite 1C. JT Miller also has great numbers, 1C for sure ... nominally. I really haven't JT play in ages. They play on the same line? JT centered his own line? I suppose JT and EP also fed off each other on the PP.

In any case, if there is an elite 1C available, we should go after him, and in this case it's EP.

 

[toNYRico]

How many times has Petersson won the cup?

Obtaining him isn't a guarantee of anything, nor is not obtaining him.

I agree we need a 1C. I don't agree that we have to trade 2 of our good young players to obtain the very 1st one that becomes available.

Not obtaining EP guarantees we still need to acquire an elite 1C. Laf and Schneider are replaceable. Extend Borgen until Mancini and Emery are NHL-ready.

 

[TGWL]

if Vancouver wants Schneider we should try to get Willander in the deal

They aren't including Willander. If they do, the GM should be canned immediately.

 

[haohmaru]

Acquiring a top line center is an ancillary issue to fixing the defense.

Acquiring a top line center is also infinitely more difficult than fixing the defense