Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[UnparalledPark]

Because Kreider is on the team currently and isn't helping.

The mandate needs to be "Build around Igor, Fox, Lafreniere" going forward. They can't wait until the summer so Kreider gets a farewell tour in an increasingly lost season. Trades need to continue as soon as the freeze ends. Does anyone expect Kreider to draw back in and the Rangers to look any different against Tampa Bay (lol) and Florida (LOL) before the New Year?

Oh, that makes sense. Let’s trade him for a first round pick and a “young” Dman so we will get better. Someone mentioned earlier that he had an awesome game 6 against Carolina. You know, that was less than 40 games ago. Are we all sure that Kreider can’t come back from his back injuries and be productive again? He’s still on pace for about 26 goals even playing with injuries.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Oh, that makes sense. Let’s trade him for a first round pick and a “young” Dman so we will get better. Someone mentioned earlier that he had an awesome game 6 against Carolina. You know, that was less than 40 games ago. Are we all sure that Kreider can’t come back from his back injuries and be productive again? He’s still on pace for about 26 goals even playing with injuries.

Nah man. He's "washed", but at the same time can bring back a haul apparently.

 

[SA16]

This is exactly why you're not a GM.

Chris Kreider deserves more respect than this. It's that simple. End of discussion.

Waivers is also not an option, and he knows this, as it makes zero sense to waive a player who will he significant trade value.

Hard disagree. This era of defensemen are scoring 80-90 points regularly. 70 is a blip on the radar. Plus I just can't see him being able to keep pace point wise when his skating really starts to hold him back. We're already seeing glimpses of that with his current 62 point pace. Fox needs to win at least another Norris or a Conn Smythe, IMO to have a shot.

As good as he is defensively, voters choose style over substance. Fox isn't gifted physically, nor does he take over games with flashy plays. Like it or not, Makar basically won the Norris over Josi in '22 based on that spin-o-rama goal early that season in Chicago.

Is his skating the reason he has a 1.8 sh% this year when his career is 7.3%? You know, he also has the highest 5v5 assist rate of his career this year?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I would love to be wrong but I personally do not think Fox maintains a level of play that gets him into the Hall. If he wins another Norris (which he’d have to do soon) or some day leads the Rangers to a Cup, the conversation is different. If he never wins another Norris and continues to lose foot speed, I would be very surprised to see him in the Hall. Obviously he is still one of our very best players, but he needs a full off season of recovery coupled with intense focus on his explosiveness and conditioning or he will not be a top pairing guy by the time he reaches 30. Is Roman Josi a Hall of Famer? His career highs in goals, points, etc. are much higher than Fox and he has a Norris and plenty of nominations as well. Maybe he is, but if he isn’t, I can’t see Fox being one and I doubt Fox is nearly as good post-30 as Josi has been. Highly doubt.

His footspeed hasn't changed, his points have and that's mostly because the players he was relying on to help move the team ahead have fallen off a cliff. Nobody would be complaining about footspeed if he was top 10 in points. Fox is the last guy we need to worry about, his smarts will make him a player long after his speed diminishes. He was never fast, people are fooling themselves if they believe he's slower right now, the whole team sucks and it makes his speed more noticeable.

Imo I'm moving kreider in a package to Van for Petersson. They are in more of a win now mode than we currently are. Maybe Kreider , Lindgren and a pick get it done, I dunno, maybe sub chytil.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Nah man. He's "washed", but at the same time can bring back a haul apparently.

Look, Kreider seems to have a bad back. He is setting up on the PP to the side of the net so he doesn’t take those cross checks to his back. There is a decent chance he will never be a physical 30 goal scorer again. Other teams are not stupid. They aren’t going to give us much for him until he proves his back is better. Until we learn one way or the other, let’s ease up on the insults.

 

[RangerBoy]

Did you say this when Henrik was emotional and brought to tears when Zuccarello was traded? That big softie!

Yes. That was funny. The Rangers traded Zuccarello on a late Saturday afternoon. The Rangers were in Washington on Sunday afternoon. After the game, Henrik is crying about Zuccarello. Stop. The guy was traded to Dallas. Nothing happened to him. He didn't have a terminal illness. He was traded. His contract was expiring soon. The Stars nearly went to WCF that spring. This is a business. The players treat it as a business when their contracts are up and their agent squeezes every last concession from the team. It's a business for the team too. I couldn't stop laughing at Henrik crying. He stopped crying and said "it's tough". Stop. LOL. These players are pathetic. Kreider complains about everything. Jim Ramsey must have magic fingers because Chris sure loves him. Vince Mercogliano wrote Kreider was too emotionally distraught to speak to the media after the Rangers played Montreal with Ramsey. They spent 5 minutes after the game hugging and kissing each other. He didn't like how Trouba's situation was handled. He is probably the ringleader in the Goodrow nonsense too. Is Chris a player or the AGM? He doesn't want to leave but everything around the team is not good. Get the f*** out of here. Good-bye.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Yes. That was funny. The Rangers traded Zuccarello on a late Saturday afternoon. The Rangers were in Washington on Sunday afternoon. After the game, Henrik is crying about Zuccarello. Stop. The guy was traded to Dallas. Nothing happened to him. He didn't have a terminal illness. He was traded. His contract was expiring soon. The Stars nearly went to WCF that spring. This is a business. The players treat it as a business when their contracts are up and their agent squeezes every last concession from the team. It's a business for the team too. I couldn't stop laughing at Henrik crying. He stopped crying and said "it's tough". Stop. LOL. These players are pathetic. Kreider complains about everything. Jim Ramsey must have magic fingers because Chris sure loves him. Vince Mercogliano wrote Kreider was too emotionally distraught to speak to the media after the Rangers played Montreal with Ramsey. They spent 5 minutes after the game hugging and kissing each other. He didn't like how Trouba's situation was handled. He is probably the ringleader in the Goodrow nonsense too. Is Chris a player or the AGM? He doesn't want to leave but everything around the team is not good. Get the f*** out of here. Good-bye.

If these players were really such a family they'd all be on discounted contracts. All of the complainers have been given generous contracts at the time of their signings with the exception of Fox(who could have asked for a lot more) and Lafreniere. Zucc shouldn't have had to leave imo, he was one of the few guys that actually left money on the table to compete.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Man some of you are Christmas grinches with how little empathy you show lol

 

[McRanger92]

Oh, that makes sense. Let’s trade him for a first round pick and a “young” Dman so we will get better. Someone mentioned earlier that he had an awesome game 6 against Carolina. You know, that was less than 40 games ago. Are we all sure that Kreider can’t come back from his back injuries and be productive again? He’s still on pace for about 26 goals even playing with injuries.

He's not injured. He was healthy scratched. Can he be a productive player again? Sure, Im pretty positive he will be. That's why he is a valuable piece to trade. The team he wears an A for and has been with a decade is flatlining and he is nowhere to be found. On or off the ice. His window is closed. Everyone knew this summer symbolized a time where the page would be turned. Both Kreider and Trouba's NMC turned to NTCs. We need to get younger. We have 2 23 year old LWs that need more icetime, especially Lafreniere on the PP.

 

[McRanger92]

His footspeed hasn't changed, his points have and that's mostly because the players he was relying on to help move the team ahead have fallen off a cliff. Nobody would be complaining about footspeed if he was top 10 in points. Fox is the last guy we need to worry about, his smarts will make him a player long after his speed diminishes. He was never fast, people are fooling themselves if they believe he's slower right now, the whole team sucks and it makes his speed more noticeable.

Imo I'm moving kreider in a package to Van for Petersson. They are in more of a win now mode than we currently are. Maybe Kreider , Lindgren and a pick get it done, I dunno, maybe sub chytil.

I saw a report on Twitter a few weeks back that Vancouver asked about Kreider but were told that he wouldnt waive for them.

 

[Mr Mxmzptlk]

Kreider is a net front presence on the PP. Still one of the best in the NHL. He is still a very good player. Kreider gives them more size. They get an experienced player whom their president of hockey operations knows extremely well. The Habs are under a bit of pressure to get the team headed in the right direction. They can't keep rebuilding forever.

Kreider does not help them head in the right direction.......

 

[Mike in Houston]

Look, Kreider seems to have a bad back. He is setting up on the PP to the side of the net so he doesn’t take those cross checks to his back. There is a decent chance he will never be a physical 30 goal scorer again. Other teams are not stupid. They aren’t going to give us much for him until he proves his back is better. Until we learn one way or the other, let’s ease up on the insults.

I was being facetious. He's my favorite player and I want him to finish his career here.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Is his skating the reason he has a 1.8 sh% this year when his career is 7.3%? You know, he also has the highest 5v5 assist rate of his career this year?

More likely his muffin of a shot is the reason he's shooting 1.8% this year, or the fact he can't seem to get it on net without being blocked 80% of the time.

Stats definitely have their place, but they don't tell the whole story. It's not blasphemy to say that he's having a down year for his standards. We'll find out if this is correctable or a trend over the next 18 months.

 

[Brutananadilewski]

Man some of you are Christmas grinches with how little empathy you show lol

Probably because even if traded, they will still get paid.

Most of us would be asking for unemployment if we did what they do on the ice.

Could you imagine trying to explain why your productivity went to shit because you either got married, had a kid, got a pay raise?!

 

[bernmeister]

This is exactly why you're not a GM.

Chris Kreider deserves more respect than this. It's that simple. End of discussion.

Everyone deserves respect. But not for 1 f***ing second does any player deserve to get put in front of the betterment of the team! If they can move Giacomin, Ratelle, Park, Leetch, Lundqvist you better bet they can sure as shit move Chris Kreider and anyone else. What is best for the team? That is all that matters. Get attached to the name on the front not the back. Build a winner is all that matters, trade, buy out, cut, whatever it takes to win. Enough with the “player x” deserves better. Win a f***ing cup then maybe players can talk about deserving better. This team cried and quit because Drury played a little hardball, shut the **** up, the goal is to win CUPS!

I'm not saying you can't move on from anyone. When a player has been with an organization since 2009 you treat them a little differently because of what they've meant to the organization. Henrik wasn't just bought out. There were discussions with him about it first. And then it was agreed by everyone involved. All I'm saying is Chris Kreider does NOT deserve the Barclay Goodrow and Jacob Trouba treatment.

Giving guys special treatment is how they get entitled in the first place. It all started with Quinn letting Panarin do whatever he wanted. We havent had a coach since who has been able to wrangle the core vets, and have them play a consistent 5v5 game. Eventually you have to look at the very real possibility that Kreider, Mika & Panarin are coach killers.

I get it, Kreider has been a great Ranger. 3rd period Game 6 against Carolina last year is one of the greatest things I’ve witnessed in 45+ yrs following the Rangers. Reminiscent of 30 yrs ago. But this team needs to retool and turn it over, time to go Chris, thanks for the memories. And take the corpses of Zibannejad, Lindgen, smith etc with you.

What is best for the team? Maybe if the Rangers kept those guys, maybe we would have won more than 1 cup in 80 years. How the heck do you know that getting rid of Kreider will help the team?

Because Kreider is on the team currently and isn't helping.

The mandate needs to be "Build around Igor, Fox, Lafreniere" going forward. They can't wait until the summer so Kreider gets a farewell tour in an increasingly lost season. Trades need to continue as soon as the freeze ends. Does anyone expect Kreider to draw back in and the Rangers to look any different against Tampa Bay (lol) and Florida (LOL) before the New Year?

Oh, that makes sense. Let’s trade him for a first round pick and a “young” Dman so we will get better. Someone mentioned earlier that he had an awesome game 6 against Carolina. You know, that was less than 40 games ago. Are we all sure that Kreider can’t come back from his back injuries and be productive again? He’s still on pace for about 26 goals even playing with injuries.

He's not injured. He was healthy scratched. Can he be a productive player again? Sure, Im pretty positive he will be. That's why he is a valuable piece to trade. The team he wears an A for and has been with a decade is flatlining and he is nowhere to be found. On or off the ice. His window is closed. Everyone knew this summer symbolized a time where the page would be turned. Both Kreider and Trouba's NMC turned to NTCs. We need to get younger. We have 2 23 year old LWs that need more icetime, especially Lafreniere on the PP.

I need to be the voice of reason here.
1. Love is given, respect is earned.
2. Kreider based on record has earned our respect.
3. Whether or not that still is the case based on performance is a fair ?
4. The ask of based on performance is REQUIRED, not optional, to be fully fair and objective in assessing performance.
5. This means we acknowledge, not ignore the real back issues.
6. We expect that is not 111% but more than likely, his career can continue and be expensively productive w/treatment etc.
7. It is a fair ? to ask given this, current Kreider returns less than idealized Kreider, so do we still put up for trade given reduced return?
8. Answer to above item actually depends on the offer, but the reasonable presumption is the offer is NOT likely to be enuf, let alone an overpay.

CONCLUSION; Kreider should NOT be traded at this time. We need to recognize, AND ADMIT BERN IS RIGHT ABOUT THIS, is that Zib is the real cancer who is the chief vortex dragging us down, and we need to jettison HIM immediately, and after we have moved him/other deadwood/assets worth selling high on, THEN we reassess where we are w/CK

----------------
Also
@McRanger92 's direction of "The mandate needs to be "Build around Igor, Fox, Lafreniere" going forward." imo is WRONG
Igor, Fox MUST sell high
LaF keep barring crazy overpay

I was being facetious. He's my favorite player and I want him to finish his career here.

I'm with you there, but we need to win this argument on merit, not raw emotion. Pls note my post #315

 

[Mike in Houston]

Yes. That was funny. The Rangers traded Zuccarello on a late Saturday afternoon. The Rangers were in Washington on Sunday afternoon. After the game, Henrik is crying about Zuccarello. Stop. The guy was traded to Dallas. Nothing happened to him. He didn't have a terminal illness. He was traded. His contract was expiring soon. The Stars nearly went to WCF that spring. This is a business. The players treat it as a business when their contracts are up and their agent squeezes every last concession from the team. It's a business for the team too. I couldn't stop laughing at Henrik crying. He stopped crying and said "it's tough". Stop. LOL. These players are pathetic. Kreider complains about everything. Jim Ramsey must have magic fingers because Chris sure loves him. Vince Mercogliano wrote Kreider was too emotionally distraught to speak to the media after the Rangers played Montreal with Ramsey. They spent 5 minutes after the game hugging and kissing each other. He didn't like how Trouba's situation was handled. He is probably the ringleader in the Goodrow nonsense too. Is Chris a player or the AGM? He doesn't want to leave but everything around the team is not good. Get the f*** out of here. Good-bye.

By your logic the players shouldn't even celebrate a game winner in OT. Just be stoned face. No emotions whatsoever.

 

[Boris Zubov]

By your logic the players shouldn't even celebrate a game winner in OT. Just be stoned face. No emotions whatsoever.

It works for Kakko.

 

[bernmeister]

Yeah well, kinda hard to do that because it's not up to the Rangers is it when this buffoon gets himself suspended all the time.

NO, your showing bad mgmt style which is hurting us

If they tell the kid he has made it conditionally to the extent he produces, and to just think and try to cut down on unintended penalties, he will, like anyone else, be more relaxed and play better.
Over the long run this will = less penalties
with only slightly, but targeted diminished intensity.

Rs need this kid's size, strength and speed
stop fighting progress

I expect this from the usual suspect idiots
not from you

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Why can't he be that for us?

Because we need leadership more than net front presence on a PP. not like he’s doing anything for our PP either.

 

[JohnC]

Yes. That was funny. The Rangers traded Zuccarello on a late Saturday afternoon. The Rangers were in Washington on Sunday afternoon. After the game, Henrik is crying about Zuccarello. Stop. The guy was traded to Dallas. Nothing happened to him. He didn't have a terminal illness. He was traded. His contract was expiring soon. The Stars nearly went to WCF that spring. This is a business. The players treat it as a business when their contracts are up and their agent squeezes every last concession from the team. It's a business for the team too. I couldn't stop laughing at Henrik crying. He stopped crying and said "it's tough". Stop. LOL. These players are pathetic. Kreider complains about everything. Jim Ramsey must have magic fingers because Chris sure loves him. Vince Mercogliano wrote Kreider was too emotionally distraught to speak to the media after the Rangers played Montreal with Ramsey. They spent 5 minutes after the game hugging and kissing each other. He didn't like how Trouba's situation was handled. He is probably the ringleader in the Goodrow nonsense too. Is Chris a player or the AGM? He doesn't want to leave but everything around the team is not good. Get the f*** out of here. Good-bye.

Sorry RB, but this whole post is cartoonishly inhuman.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

HFDocs trying to retroactively ruin my Christmas.

 

[zlev]

Not a chance.

Zubov would chain smoke between periods (literally) as he played 25 mins a night, and in today's game would have broken 100 points a season a couple times.

Comparing the game and point production of today to zubov's time is silly to say the least.

saying a defenseman would have 100 points a season is the silly thing. Zubov was a great player but 100 points is lol. 93-97 was as high scoring as today and he never even came close. he played on the f***in 95-96 Penguins and was only just over a point per game. and also, never tried to argue Fox was better than Zubov. i don't really care to figure out who is better, but if Zubov got in the HOF then Fox is absolutely on track to.

 

[zlev]

Agree to disagree, he already has fallen off and as he ages his lack of physical gifts will show more and more. He might get his number retired if he stays here another 10 years, but hof would floor me

he hasn't fallen off though. aren't you an Insider? then you should know that he had a bad knee injury last season and probably wasn't able to do anything in the offseason. and he's still the Rangers best player.

 

[NikC]

By your logic the players shouldn't even celebrate a game winner in OT. Just be stoned face. No emotions whatsoever.

WE as fans want to see the team come together, form chemistry, comraderies with each other.. . all the ingredients that make a TEAM bond and take them to the SCF, but we also expect them to move on without showing any emotion, when core players and leaders are traded?

I think that's unrealistic?

This current situation with THIS VERSION of the rangers is different. These vets are done. they've done all they can do. It's time for them to move on. ALL OF THEM.

 

[Boris Zubov]

saying a defenseman would have 100 points a season is the silly thing. Zubov was a great player but 100 points is lol. 93-97 was as high scoring as today and he never even came close. he played on the f***in 95-96 Penguins and was only just over a point per game.

I agree, that's a stretch to say he had a 100 point season in him, however, Fox is playing in an era where scoring is way up so I don't get the comparison when Fox is topping out in the mid 70s.

I was a huge Zubov fan & honestly, I still don't see him as a HOFer. He played the majority of his career in the DPE where scoring was way down, but he was never in the conversation as an elite D man even in his prime.

.