Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLV

[Gardner McKay]

This is a good time to throw out a reminder.

If you aren't vetted, you don't get to post insider information.

Click to read more...

 

[Gardner McKay]

I don't think the Skinner deal is that far off from market value. Plus when you find a guy who meshes that well with your star player it's worth the extra few hundred thousand a year to keep him on Eichel's wing.

I thought the same thing until someone pointed out that his production is similar to Evander Kane... I don't see there being a ~2 million dollar difference between the two players.

The Kings have their own Marleau contract in Kovalchuk. The Kings would love to move Quick and his contract but nobody wants a bad aging goalie. Four more years for Quick. Phaneuf is another bad contract. Two more years. They moved Gaborik’s bad contract for him. They wanted too long to move Martinez. Two more years of Martinez. They have three more years of Carter. Three more years of Brown. Kopitar has five more years. Doughty is starting his 8 year extension this season.

That team may be the biggest mess in the NHL... which is saying something when you look at the Oilers and Sens.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I thought the same thing until someone pointed out that his production is similar to Evander Kane... I don't see there being a ~2 million dollar difference between the two players.
Except that the king's have won 2 cups.


That team may be the biggest mess in the NHL... which is saying something when you look at the Oilers and Sens.

 

[McRanger]

I think its more complicated than that though. there is alot more diversity, for lack of a better word, on the left side in terms of size, physicality, speed, offensive talent, etc so I can see guys from that group handling matching against the other teams top line, playing on the pp, killing penalties etc. but on the right side they are all very similar players in terms of size and style. so even if they all pan out and become very good dmen who from the group is going to be the match up guy? who's gonna kill penalties? maybe those guys will be able to handle those roles, but trouba adds a dimension to the blueline that the current RHD crop doesn't have

It always is. But at this stage of the game, at least in my opinion, I think we are still in the "accumulating assets" stage as opposed to "shaping our team" stage. It's just too early to work about roles or redundancy.

 

[McRanger]

Trouba is a better player than Skjei. Miller, IMO, has a higher upside, and I’m willing to gamble that Hajek at least reaches the level Skjei is currently at. So, yes, I do think that it’s a worthy trade off.

Trouba is certainly a better player than Skjei. But it goes a bit beyond that when you factor in the other assets (in your proposal Andersson) and the questions about Trouba's health and contract.

And at the end of the day I am more comfortable with a idea of a 25 year old ADA and a 22 year old Fox getting 1st and 2nd/3rd pair minutes next year ('20-'21) than I am a 20 year old Miller and a 22 year old Hajek (or Lindgren) doing the same.

But those are all outlooks that can drastically change by next summer. Which is why I am less "anti-Trouba" than I am "anti-Trouba now."

 

[Leetch3]

It always is. But at this stage of the game, at least in my opinion, I think we are still in the "accumulating assets" stage as opposed to "shaping our team" stage. It's just too early to work about roles or redundancy.

I agree with that 100% and when it comes to the draft you just get the best players you can and don't worry about redundancy...

but when the time comes to sign or trade for an established player then role matters greatly. at that point you shouldn't be looking to just add another asset but to complete the puzzle so to speak

 

[McRanger]

I agree with that 100% and when it comes to the draft you just get the best players you can and don't worry about redundancy...

but when the time comes to sign or trade for an established player then role matters greatly. at that point you shouldn't be looking to just add another asset but to complete the puzzle so to speak

That's a fair point. I guess I just can't get past how big a year this is for development, both for our prospects and our young players already in the NHL.

I can't help but feel like the outlook on certain players and team "needs" might be very different in the summer of 2020.

 

[Gardner McKay]

except the kings won two cups

Yeah they did. They are currently a dumpsterfire at the moment.

 

[haveandare]

Trouba is certainly a better player than Skjei. But it goes a bit beyond that when you factor in the other assets (in your proposal Andersson) and the questions about Trouba's health and contract.

And at the end of the day I am more comfortable with a idea of a 25 year old ADA and a 22 year old Fox getting 1st and 2nd/3rd pair minutes next year ('20-'21) than I am a 20 year old Miller and a 22 year old Hajek (or Lindgren) doing the same.

But those are all outlooks that can drastically change by next summer. Which is why I am less "anti-Trouba" than I am "anti-Trouba now."

The thing with Trouba is that he's an upgrade but not that big of one imo. If we could do 1:1 Skjei for Trouba with some smallish sweetener, of course we should. But it'd take a real asset going the other way. If we're going to move multiple real assets for a d-man I'd want one that's a more noticeable upgrade. And you can pretty much count on Trouba to miss a big piece of every season - not such a huge deal when he's on a deep d, but if he's your best guy him missing time is almost certainly going to be an issue.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Just putting this out there, but the reason Trouba missed a chunk of the 2017-18 season was due to him holding out, not injury if I remember right. He played the full season this year.

Edit: or it could have been the 2016-17 season he held out.

 

[thethirdhockeyman91]

Holy shit maybe we should target jordie benn this summer!

 

[Calad]

In regards to the newly edited OP... I am confident in my estimation that Kreider will be moved at the draft. Makes sense considering the contract situation and the circus around Hayes and Zucc last year.

I think trying to trade into the top 10 of the draft this year with Kreider is a pipe dream. What else could we feasibly acquire with Krieds?

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Holy **** maybe we should target jordie benn this summer!

And that just goes to show you why players get overpaid in free agency, and how advanced stats aren’t the be all end all. I remember when Jesper Fast had more 5v5 points than Claude Giroux one season.

 

[Thirty One]

And that just goes to show you why players get overpaid in free agency, and how advanced stats aren’t the be all end all. I remember when Jesper Fast had more 5v5 points than Claude Giroux one season.

Trying to wrap my head around how simple one would have to be to consider even strength points advanced.

 

[haveandare]

In regards to the newly edited OP... I am confident in my estimation that Kreider will be moved at the draft. Makes sense considering the contract situation and the circus around Hayes and Zucc last year.

I think trying to trade into the top 10 of the draft this year with Kreider is a pipe dream. What else could we feasibly acquire with Krieds?

Think we could get into the top 10 with CK + 20?

Edit: Not saying I'd do that deal, just pointing out that we have plenty to add to balance out a deal with Kreider being the main piece and a top 10 pick being the other.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Think we could get into the top 10 with CK + 20?

I think Kreider is worth more than ten spots in this draft.

I’d be pretty disappointed if that’s the type of package it takes. If that’s the case, I’d just stay at 20 or try to get to like 17 if Seider is there

 

[Edge]

Think we could get into the top 10 with CK + 20?

I love some names in the top 10, but man that's a hefty price for an unknown.

 

[Leetch3]

That's a fair point. I guess I just can't get past how big a year this is for development, both for our prospects and our young players already in the NHL.

I can't help but feel like the outlook on certain players and team "needs" might be very different in the summer of 2020.

I couldn't agree more with that...we are so far away from knowing what we truly have and what those needs will be...you hope next summer it will be clearer but thats why you don't want to jump the gun making your 'big move'

 

[haveandare]

I think Kreider is worth more than ten spots in this draft.

I’d be pretty disappointed if that’s the type of package it takes. If that’s the case, I’d just stay at 20 or try to get to like 17 if Seider is there

I love some names in the top 10, but man that's a hefty price for an unknown.

Yeah, I wouldn't do that personally. Mostly just questioning the idea that CK for a top 10 pick is a "pipe dream." We have plenty to add to balance out the scales for a deal like that if we wanted. If we were doing Kreider + 20 I'd want a top 10 pick and a good forward piece, a Lemieux-ish type. Someone young, unproven, but promising for a bottom or middle 6 role.

 

[Levitate]

Think we could get into the top 10 with CK + 20?

Only 2 teams I see that really might interested in trading down like that in exchange for a roster player are Edmonton and Buffalo. Both are teams that are realizing they need to start winning sooner rather than later and a pick in the later part of the top 10 probably isn't someone who is going to help them immediately. Everyone else I think will definitely want their pick.

Kreider + 20th for 8th or 9th seems a little steep to pay though, perhaps depends on who might be there.

e: maybe Kreider +20 for the 8/9 spot and a second rounder or as mentioned a good young depth player?

 

[FIRE DRURY]

If Kreider is traded, does Bern go with him the way Webster went with Zucc?

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Trying to wrap my head around how simple one would have to be to consider even strength points advanced.

Semantics but ok.

 

[Calad]

Think we could get into the top 10 with CK + 20?

Edit: Not saying I'd do that deal, just pointing out that we have plenty to add to balance out a deal with Kreider being the main piece and a top 10 pick being the other.

No because it takes 2 teams to play ball, and I don't think any team in the top 10 will want to trade out of it because of the dropoff in talent after the top 10ish players

 

[SA16]

Trying to wrap my head around how simple one would have to be to consider even strength points advanced.

Are they posted in the box score in the newspaper?

 

[Edge]

That's a fair point. I guess I just can't get past how big a year this is for development, both for our prospects and our young players already in the NHL.

I can't help but feel like the outlook on certain players and team "needs" might be very different in the summer of 2020.

There's a number of moving parts and unknowns at this time, which isn't surprising considering that we are all of 15-23 months into this process.

There's this feeling inside me that we're trying to push moves that come at the 36-40 month mark now. And those extra months are vital to figuring out what the hell is really going on, beyond making guesses.

I see a lot of the same thought-process behind believing that the draft always drops right before we pick in the mindset that now is the time, and these are are the acquisitions. And even when people use examples like Hossa, there's almost this tendency to forget that moves tended to come in that 36-40 month mark that we now seem scared to hit.

There's this fear that we're missing out. Either a player doesn't come around very often, or we're going to develop a losing culture, or something along those lines.