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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLII Time for Curtis Lazar?

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@Loki Dog 74 Great post!

Buch is one of those kids that is a bit scary to deal with. We all know the ifs and buts. But on the other hand, you got a player that (a) is really good today, and (b) constantly is getting better, (c) should have a lot of potential to improve, like some low hanging fruit near by for sure.

Kind of reminds me a bit of when Kovalev was traded.

At the same time we got at least a bit of a logjam at RW with Kakko, Kravy and Buch being somewhat similar in potential use and both Kakko and Kravy being young.

One day I am against trading Buch, the other for it. Hard to get a grip on what to do here.
 
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Loki Dog 74 said:
Panarin - X - X (Kakko)
Kreider - Zbad - X

Lindgren - Fox
X - Trouba
(DeAngelo)

Shesterkin


The core is in place. Kakko realistically should be a lock to become a top six player. Lindgren is really only there because of the dearth of LHD, while DeAngelo should be here long term but due to the overloaded right side and his contract status I listed him tentatively as well... is he a trade chip to fill one of the X’s in the top-six/top-four? Regardless, those are the big pieces.

We have an interesting range of guys following:

Strome - if he replicates his success and takes a decent contract he ends up part of the core of this new build, for better or worse.

Chytil - ostensibly should be part of the new core but needs to take a more meaningful step forward to cement himself. Could be a top-six C/W.

Buchnevich - very established right now but not a core piece. Could get pushed out with the development of Kakko/Kravstov due to a crowded top-six. Do we pay him to be third line scoring depth? Decision isn’t imminent and he could be a valuable trade piece. Still young.

Kravstov - looks like he should be on track to be a similar player to Buchnevich. Hardly a sure thing, but the potential is still there.

Gauthier - big body who can skate and should be coachable enough to contribute in the bottom six or find his scoring touch and be a complimentary winger on a scoring line. Questions are will he be a third liner, a fourth liner or round into something more that can slot up and down. Should at least have a solid spot somewhere in the lineup.

Lemieux - valuable for several reasons, seems to have the potential to be more, may need coaching/mentorship to hone himself and focus more on being a productive, disruptive force rather than chasing hits and just being an agitator. Should at least be a solid fourth liner who can slot higher but young enough to find another gear.

Andersson - discussions been beat to death. Can he put himself together and be a serviceable 4C? That would be a win at this point. A 3C? One step at a time.

Howden - he’s either a mediocre bottom six guy who can slot around or he takes a step. He’s young and cost controlled and has some tools.

Fast - is he back? Can we pay him? Great utility guy who can play anywhere in the lineup but cap is a concern.


Defensively it’s a lot of questions about prospects. On the surface we have such depth at D in the system we like to project a bunch of internal solutions but realistically, with where we are now in this process, I believe we have to bring in a middle pairing veteran to start making solid playoff pushes and meaningful progress in gaining post season experience while insulating the young guys who may crack the lineup.


Overall, this is truly not a rebuild any longer and much more of a wait and see who takes the right steps and what holes it leaves us with. How JG negotiates dealing from surpluses and addressing those holes as they become more clearly defined in the next 18 months will probably determine if we successfully emerge as a true contender.
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Good stuff. Not sure where that Jack Eichel trade talk is anymore but there are some players here that would fall into that category of potential pieces involved namely TDA, Chytil and Buchnevich.
 
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Ola said:
@Loki Dog 74 Great post!

Buch is one of those kids that is a bit scary to deal with. We all know the ifs and buts. But on the other hand, you got a player that (a) is really good today, and (b) constantly is getting better, (c) should have a lot of potential to improve, like some low hanging fruit near by for sure.

Kind of reminds me a bit of when Kovalev was traded.

At the same time we got at least a bit of a logjam at RW with Kakko, Kravy and Buch being somewhat similar in potential use and both Kakko and Kravy being young.

One day I am against trading Buch, the other for it. Hard to get a grip on what to do here.
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I agree. His intensity level was super high this year, especially that month he was snakebitten AF. Gotta love the @resting buch face lol
 
Ola said:
@Loki Dog 74 Great post!

Buch is one of those kids that is a bit scary to deal with. We all know the ifs and buts. But on the other hand, you got a player that (a) is really good today, and (b) constantly is getting better, (c) should have a lot of potential to improve, like some low hanging fruit near by for sure.

Kind of reminds me a bit of when Kovalev was traded.

At the same time we got at least a bit of a logjam at RW with Kakko, Kravy and Buch being somewhat similar in potential use and both Kakko and Kravy being young.

One day I am against trading Buch, the other for it. Hard to get a grip on what to do here.
Click to expand...
Since the aqcuisition of Gauthier it should be a priority to figure out if someone in that group can effectively shift to LW. Considering three out of the four are left shots, at least one of them should be able to handle it. IIRC Kakko was even more effective at LW than RW in Liiga.
 
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Oscar Lindberg said:
I’m not entirely convinced Buchnevich is here after next year so I’m not sure it’s an issue
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Buch is a player who despite his reputation brings a ton of value outside his point totals, which is exactly the type of player that you shouldn't trade since you won't get good value. Conversely he is exactly the type of player you should target in a trade if you sense that their current team does not value him properly.

He was the only forward on the team that managed not to get completely buried when playing away from 10/93 this season, not even Kreider could pull that off.
 
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Blue Blooded said:
Since the aqcuisition of Gauthier it should be a priority to figure out if someone in that group can effectively shift to LW. Considering three out of the four are left shots, at least one of them should be able to handle it. IIRC Kakko was even more effective at LW than RW in Liiga.
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I don’t think the issue is whether Kakko/Kravstov can play LW; I believe both have/can. The issue is Panarin and Kreider have both top six LW slots locked down. Buchnevich currently has one RW slot. Kakko should grow into the other within the next full year. Kravstov doesn’t strike me as a guy who fits in a bottom six, away from scorers. If Strome is re-signed but we get another top six C (or Chytil grows into that role) he shifts to the wing. If Chytil ends up more of a W than C, he also has top six potential. If Gauthier surprises us with his growth, that’s another potential winger. It’s great to have all of these guys, but how you construct a good bottom six with guys whose games may not really be suited to being there becomes interesting.
 
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Loki Dog 74 said:
Buchnevich - very established right now but not a core piece. Could get pushed out with the development of Kakko/Kravstov due to a crowded top-six. Do we pay him to be third line scoring depth? Decision isn’t imminent and he could be a valuable trade piece. Still young.
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I still believe that Buchnevich's future is directly tied into Strome & DeAngelo. One of those three is not getting a contract extension. Gut feeling says it's Buch. But who knows? Maybe DeAngelo really does himself in with this podcast.
 
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Loki Dog 74 said:
I don’t think the issue is whether Kakko/Kravstov can play LW; I believe both have/can. The issue is Panarin and Kreider have both top six LW slots locked down. Buchnevich currently has one RW slot. Kakko should grow into the other within the next full year. Kravstov doesn’t strike me as a guy who fits in a bottom six, away from scorers. If Strome is re-signed but we get another top six C (or Chytil grows into that role) he shifts to the wing. If Chytil ends up more of a W than C, he also has top six potential. If Gauthier surprises us with his growth, that’s another potential winger. It’s great to have all of these guys, but how you construct a good bottom six with guys whose games may not really be suited to being there becomes interesting.
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Your 3rd line isn't necessarily a checking line. The best 3rd line we've had in the past decade was Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello which was an offensive line. Another great 3L was Wolski-Stepan-Zuccarello which was also all about offense.
 
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True Blue said:
I still believe that Buchnevich's future is directly tied into Strome & DeAngelo. One of those three is not getting a contract extension. Gut feeling says it's Buch. But who knows? Maybe DeAngelo really does himself in with this podcast.
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My gut is the same regarding Buch. If Kravstov doesn’t bust he’s the obvious choice to slide into Buch’s spot on an ELC which allows us to package Buch to fill a need elsewhere. Have to imagine Buch + one of the D prospects + a pick (for example, in a year like this where we have several) could get you a solid piece or a couple of nice long term solutions in the depth equation.
 
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Blue Blooded said:
Your 3rd line isn't necessarily a checking line. The best 3rd line we've had in the past decade was Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello which was an offensive line. Another great 3L was Wolski-Stepan-Zuccarello which was also all about offense.
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Zucc and Step were both pretty smart players who could take care of the puck. I agree it doesn’t have to be a checking line, but we need the right players to strike a balance. We can’t just play run and gun, no matter how good Shesty is. If we can roll 3 scoring lines, we need a responsible, smart player on at least two of those lines and a solid 4th line that can come out and play meaningful minutes against good lines.

I’m with you, but it’s all about the right players. Buch, Chytil and Gauthier, for example could make a very interesting third line. I think there’s enough there to not be a tire fire defensively and take advantage of mismatches, etc. It’s just about shuffling the cards and getting the right hand. Zbad is incredibly valuable because he’s so underrated defensively still but the fact that he’s such a complete player does us a big favor in terms of flexibility with having 3 scoring lines.
 
Loki Dog 74 said:
Zucc and Step were both pretty smart players who could take care of the puck. I agree it doesn’t have to be a checking line, but we need the right players to strike a balance. We can’t just play run and gun, no matter how good Shesty is. If we can roll 3 scoring lines, we need a responsible, smart player on at least two of those lines and a solid 4th line that can come out and play meaningful minutes against good lines.
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Sure, but if Andersson sorts his head out I don't think a 3rd line of Kravtsov-Andersson-Gauthier would be an issue assuming Strome doesn't stay beyond 20-21 and Chytil assumes the role of 2C.
 
Blue Blooded said:
Sure, but if Andersson sorts his head out I don't think a 3rd line of Kravtsov-Andersson-Gauthier would be an issue assuming Strome doesn't stay beyond 20-21 and Chytil assumes the role of 2C.
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Those are big assumptions. Strome is taking a 1 year deal? No guarantees Chytil is a center, nor takes the necessary steps to become a 2C and Andersson not only putting it together to become an NHLer, but a solid 3C? That’s a lot going right.

Philosophically I do agree with you. But it’s not as easy to strike that successful balance where guys like Kravstov of Buchnevich thrive in a third line role as I wish it was.
 
Blue Blooded said:
Buch is a player who despite his reputation brings a ton of value outside his point totals, which is exactly the type of player that you shouldn't trade since you won't get good value. Conversely he is exactly the type of player you should target in a trade if you sense that their current team does not value him properly.

He was the only forward on the team that managed not to get completely buried when playing away from 10/93 this season, not even Kreider could pull that off.
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Oh I think he’s a great player but I think the front office basically chose Kreider over him

Think he’s going to be moved for help elsewhere at some point
 
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I think Buch's fate was sealed the instant he signed a two-year deal. I still believe the correct move would have been to lock him in to a long-term, lower AAV contract that would've kept him relatively cheap throughout his prime. The underlying numbers suggested he'd continue to develop into a solid play-driving top-6 W, and he had obvious chemistry with Kreider and Zibanejad. We obviously saw him another step forward this year, which is a shame since this type of play is most likely going to put him out of our price range after next year.

That being said, I believe that someone mentioned he was only willing to sign a two-year deal last summer. I wasn't able to find this source, but if that was actually the case, it makes the long-term contract idea moot.
 
Blue Blooded said:
Sure, but if Andersson sorts his head out I don't think a 3rd line of Kravtsov-Andersson-Gauthier would be an issue assuming Strome doesn't stay beyond 20-21 and Chytil assumes the role of 2C.
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Move Gauthier to the left wing, and you go Kreider, Panarin, Gauthier, Lemieux. Rough night for the RD.
 
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It’s crazy it wasn’t lottery protected in the first place... there was a chance when that trade was made that neither of Carolina or Toronto would make the playoffs even then. And when the season shut down, Toronto was only 3 points ahead of Florida.

I mean, it’s only a little more likely now than it was then because of how the phase 2 odds set up. But it’s still amazing Carolina didn’t insist on it.
 
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