Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

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One of them is on track to crack top 5 in production all time for an O6 franchise while the other is a decent role player. Let me repeat myself, Mika, in the worst season of his career is still outproducing Vinny despite playing 3 min less/game and being a vagabond up and down the line-up.

I dont know what you are trying to prove with the PPP breakdown? Yes, good players get PP time...

Superior penalty killer? Mika has Vinny more than doubled in SHP over their careers.

I am sorry but you are delusional if you believe they have had similar careers. But hey, you got their age right and, yes, Vinny is better at the dot. :thumbu:
Both are having down years and Trocheck is the better player NOW. Zib HAD a better career but the last two years have been fairly abysmal. If I had to pick one or the other for next year? Easy. I'm picking Trocheck. And that's not even considering he's 3 million a year cheaper... 5.6 mil for a gritty, faceoff dominant 2/3C isn't bad at all. 8.5 mil isn't good... for whatever Mika is these days. Even if Mika was making 5.5AAV, I'm picking Trocheck.
I get it, you like Zib. Some of the personal attacks on him have been unwarranted. Doesn't change the fact that he's a shadow of the player he was a few years back, and I have zero confidence he's not worse NEXT year.
 
Colorado was interested in Panarin in 2019. The Avs didn't like the 7 year term. Panarin is still a productive player six years later.

First round matchup with Dallas. Toss up. The Stars are not playing well. Heiskenen won't play in the first round.

If the Avs don't reach the WCF, would they be interested in Panarin? The Rangers and Colorado have made trades. Georgiev. Lindgren. Panarin has another 2-3 good years left in the tank. Definitely two more quality seasons. The Avs would need to re-sign Panarin to an extension. Would Colorado swap Necas for Panarin? There is $5M gap in their cap hits for next season. Maybe the Rangers retain. Maybe the Avs include another player. Josh Manson's $4.5M expiring contract? Manson has had a tough season in Colorado.

The Avs want to win another Cup with MacKinnon. He turns 30 this September. Are the Avs a better team with Panarin or Necas in the next 3 seasons? How do the Avs maximize the MacKinnon years? Panarin will most likely be a shorter extension. 2 years. 3 years. Panarin still has another season remaining on his current contract. Necas probably wants a 6-7-8 year deal and a decent bump from his $6.5M. The playoffs will determine a lot of things.

Panarin gets to play with MacKinnon. The Avs give him an extension. July 1 trade or a draft day trade where they discuss the extension as part of the trade and officially sign it on July 1. Colorado has a large Russian population. I remember reading many years ago about Panarin liking the snow. Panarin waives his NMC. He gets to play for a Cup contender. Jared Bednar is a great coach.

Necas would give the Rangers a right handed shooting winger which they need and the Rangers extend him. He is in the right age group. Necas is 26 years old. I looked Natural Stat Trick. Trocheck and Necas played over 1,000 minutes together at 5v5 from the time Trocheck went to Carolina at the 2020 deadline. Trocheck played his most minutes in Carolina with Necas. The Rangers reunite them as seeing how Miller and Trocheck are the two team leaders now and next season. Trocheck and Necas were good together.


Just give JT the C. He is already directing traffic. You line up here. You line up behind me for the one-timer when I win this face-off. Panarin, Fox and Mika are looking at each other and nodding their heads.

Wouldn't a bigger deal be better? What about something like Panarin and Fox for Necas, Girard, and Miles Wood? That would get us a LD. It would let Colorado slot Fox properly where he belongs in a lineup on the 2nd pair and reunite him with Lindgren. Then we get Wood to bring speed and physical play to the team in a depth role.
 
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He's also been playing with a busted hand for months now.
Is it still broken more than 8 weeks later? A fractured finger is usually fully healed in 5 weeks or so. Pan, Troch, Zib, Kreider, Laf have ALL regressed this season. Before, during and after any injuries. In any case the only two I suspect may NOT decline even further next year are Troch and Laf.
 
Not sure what the Rangers are thinking. Do they really think they can magically contend with this current group next year?
They can contend or get much better with competent coaching.

It's a toxic cycle right now imo... there's horrendous coaching and the players know it. They quiet quit because of it.

There's major room for improvement in coaching/execution. Do we need more players/talent? yes. That can be addressed to a degree as well.
 
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Hagens is for sure being done dirty for no real reason. I would love if the Rangers got him. Kid can play. Only 2 guys I would consider over him, and only 1 of those 2 would be a sure choice for me. Schaefer. After that is Misa and Hagens. Misa killed the OHL this year. Looks sexier then a PPG in NCAA. I still think I take Hagens, but I don't think you are going wrong either way.
 
That's right about the 1st going to Pittsburgh (sigh), but I didn't think it was an option. The way the trade reads it seems to say if the 2025 1st was in the top 13 it was automatically protected...And if so the 2026 1st would transfer.
NYR have 48 hours after draft positions are assigned by the lottery to decide if they want to keep any pick 13th or better or to relinquish it to Pitt (via Van).
 
90 percent chance plus that NYR keep the pick because of 'optics' (Keeing next years would imply lack of faith in the retool)
 
That's what I thought about Kakko and he brought back a depth defenseman.

Granted, we continued to let Kakko not score and get scratched in full view of everyone. It might be better to cut ties with Lafreniere sooner rather than later.

Knowing the Rangers, they'll think he bounces back themselves, and end up stuck with or trading whatever he ends up being.
Well Laf was on an upswing last season, last playoffs and the first part of THIS season (something like 15 5v5 pts in 19 games?) until the whole team shit the bed. He's looked lost most of the time since. If you want to concentrate on just this season, I can see wanting to get what you can, within reason. If you look at the whole two years, you hold onto him. At least I do. Of all the under-performers on this team, I'm most confident in a rebound on his part.
It always depends on the return, but I'm an anti "sell low" kind of guy and this would be exactly that.
 
I'd take Hagens 1st overall AINEC. He reminds me of both Hughes & Eichel, he's the exact type of player we never get. Back to back lottery picks and neither of them are even NHL average skaters and have no stand out tools. Misa is yet another guy who isn't a great skater. Schaefer coming out of nowhere to being ranked higher than these guys in a season he played 17 games is bizarre. Go read the first several pages of his thread on HF, people barely talked about him until this season where he barely even played.
 
Hagens is for sure being done dirty for no real reason. I would love if the Rangers got him. Kid can play. Only 2 guys I would consider over him, and only 1 of those 2 would be a sure choice for me. Schaefer. After that is Misa and Hagens. Misa killed the OHL this year. Looks sexier then a PPG in NCAA. I still think I take Hagens, but I don't think you are going wrong either way.

I don't think he's being done dirty at all. He's still 2nd/3rd on most lists and no lower than 4th on everything I've seen.
 
This just isn't accurate about their roster and cap. They will have Jiricek and Wallstedt full time next season. That already gives them 7 d and 2 goalies. They have a roster of 18 and 19.5 million in cap space. Chisholm seems extra with Buium signed. Maybe they do just resign Rossi and sign Nelson. But they could literally add Kreider and Z and sign Nelson. They have the cap. Bogosian could be sent out to save cap along with Trenin and Hartman. They just have a lot of flexibility and cap so there really isn't any argument logistically why they wouldn't do it. Only really that they simple don't want to. Which is a fair argument.
Your right in terms of the last part. I think the reason Wild are hesitant is because of Kap will command a large money and for that reason they have made it clear they will not take on any long-term contract until Kaprizov is resigned as his extension can go all the way up to 18 or 19 mil per year. They also have brock faber extension kicking in. In terms of Wallstedt, he's, their backup. They have Gus going into his last year who will also be resigned. They aren't moving trenin because of Kaprizov. They also have a top Russian prospect coming in that they are giving a top 6 roster spot to. Plus, Wild have a large amount of top Prospects they aren't trying to block. If Hartman does get moved, it will be hard to due 20 team no trade.
 
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Over the past two years, playing for the same team, Trochek has 4 more points than Mika. Mika is “out producing” Trochek by 1 point this year.

Their career points per 82 games are 6 apart, no matter how many times you want to say that Mika “in the worst year of his career” is “out producing” him. It’s 59 and 58 points. Short handed points isn’t the primary measure of effectiveness as a penalty killer - Trochek is the superior defensive player.

Listen, Sid, we all know Mika’s flowing hair and puppy dog eyes make your loins tingle, but when two players of the same age are 6 points apart in their point per 82 game average over 800+ games, you can say whatever you want as hard as you want and it won’t make it true.

Mika had some higher offensive peaks but ultimately has averaged out to be almost the exact same player. Last year Trochek had him beat by 5. This year Mika has him by 1, with a game remaining. Over the course of Trochek’s time as a Ranger Mika is up by 23 points over 3 seasons, or roughly ~8 points per year. So we’ve got the career sample size where they are 6 points apart per 82 and the 3 year sample size where they’re separated by ~8. We’ve got the last 2 years where Trochek is ahead by 4 points and we’ve got this season where Mika is ahead by 1. It seems like they’ve been pretty similar players to me, whether it’s across entire careers, the last 3, 2 or 1 seasons.

Zibanejad had a higher peak with career years of 91 and 81 points, while Trochek had 77 and 75 as his bests. Pretty close to what separates their career averages as well.

Of Mika’s 91 and 81, 39 and 28 came on the PP respectively. Also 31 of his 72 last year, and 19 of his 59 this year.

Of Trochek’s 77 and 75, 24 and 27 came on the PP respectively. Only 24 of his 77 last year, and 12 of his 58 this year.

Last year, Zibanejad 72 points, 41 non PP. This year 59 points, 40 non PP. 131 points, 81 non PP points.

Last year, Trochek 77 points, 53 non PP. This year 58 points, 46 non PP. 135 points, 99 non PP points.

Trochek’s first year as a Ranger, he had 64 points, 47 not on the PP. That was Mika’s 91 point career year - he had 52 not on the PP.

Since Trochek came to NY, it’s 222 points for Mika with 133 not on the PP and 199 points for Trochek with 146 not on the PP.

There’s virtually no doubt as to which player works harder and does more off the puck and one is specifically positioned to be THE go-to shooter on the PP, which is why this info is relevant, before you spout off about “good players” deserve their PP time. It’s NYR - we all know that’s not how PP time is decided.

You can slice this a lot of ways and keep losing the argument. Mika’s raw points per game is .7933 and Trochek’s is .7213. They’ve both played over 800 NHL games. We’re not comparing Bedard and Celebrini here on some absurdly small sample size before either has reached their prime. It’s a .072 point per game difference. Significantly leas than 1/10th of a point per game.
I salute the effort, I really do but boy is there so much wrong with all of this.

If player A:s worst season is player B:s career average then you have you answer.
 
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Not sure what the Rangers are thinking. Do they really think they can magically contend with this current group next year?
Lets ask this question again in September, after we see what happens in the offseason.

Only stupid people are the ones that think we don't do anything and go in next season with the same team minus Kreider.

I do know this core went to the ECF last year though. All it takes is Igor to play like he can and we already will make the playoffs. He had an off year, like 90% of the team.
 
I salute the effort, I really do but boy is there so much wrong with all of this.

If player A:s worst season is player B:s career average then you have you answer.

And also, please spare me the personal insults. Lets not play that game. It will end with you spiraling and getting run off this board again.

If Player A and Player B have played 800+ games and average damn near the same number of points, THERE is your answer. Peaks and valleys really don’t matter when the result over a 800 game sample size is less than 6 points per 82 different. Player A is inconsistent and player B is consistent, but on average they get you the same damn thing. We’re literally not even arguing opinions here. This is like trying to argue days in the summer have more actual hours because the sun doesn’t go down as early.

Again, Mika’s raw points per game is .7933 and Trochek’s is .7213. They’ve both played over 800 NHL games. We’re not comparing Bedard and Celebrini here on some absurdly small sample size before either has reached their prime. It’s a .072 point per game difference. Significantly leas than 1/10th of a point per game. Roughly 7/100ths. 72/1000ths of 1 point. That’s seventy-two one-thousandths in case numbers were hard. Per game. 800+ games.

You can’t even possibly, remotely, truly be as inept as you’re coming across. Go tribute your Mika Z poster and come back with some post nut clarity.

Mika’s “worst” season this year is also Tage Thompson’s career average, so Mika’s better than him as well.
 
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