Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[Fitzy]

I will say this. You luck out of a lot of stuff. Even the teams with the vaunted high picks took a bunch of them that didn't hit. Meanwhile, teams get Brayden Point with a 3rd rounder, and Gustav Forsling just materializes from nothing one day like the Big Bang.

A lot of it is just throwing shit at the wall, and that's good, because it's doable.

It's about making the right decisions with what you can control.

What Drury could control was evidently staring down a team that wasn't good enough anymore, looking at a cupboard that was towards the bottom of the league (because the last guy missed every pick -- I understand that) and he decided to trade a bullet in the draft for that five foot extension when it made no sense for the timeline the team is now on.

He both misidentified the problem, and dug the hole deeper, to make a move because...why? Because it was there? To sneak into the playoffs?

I pretty much turned on him when he made that trade and I don't think I'm being unreasonable. It was a pretty egregious case of a GM being incredibly short-sighted and honestly just not paying enough attention.

My appraisal of the Miller trade does kind of depend on the eventual return.

Because from where I'm sitting it was Drury being offered a top line piece for probably only about 70% of the going market rate due to Miller's desire to play here.

If they decide they've given up in summer of 2027 or 2028, with the cap continuing to rise a late career JT Miller could fetch a haul in a deal to a contender looking for a last piece to put them over the top. Heck he can play center OR wing. Doubly so if NYR, starting a new rebuild at that time, are willing to retain.

Had we gone out and traded the farm like we almost did for Brad Richards at the deadline, I'd agree with you. But Miller, despite his age, has term at a reasonable hit in th rising cap era, and that should be good for his eventual value.

As I continue to cope with a decision I disagree with here- it MAY be auspiscious to rebuild in 2-3 years compared to right now. A lot of our group is currently at their absolute market low value after a season like this one. Guys will be a lot older in 2028, but if we have a selling spree of Trocheck and others at that point- the depth pool in the league is gonna remain static, especially with more new teams if that happens. Players even of age may be worth their weight in gold on contracts given out in austerity markets from 2021-2023

 

[McRanger92]

And I was very happy that he traded Smith for a 3rd. Should have stuck with it.

He won't do that. If he was gonna do that, he would have kept the pick he had.

At least we're making a pick in every round this year.

 

[Siddi]

Yes if they announced we were rebuilding I'd jump with joy as I think we're operating on slim margins and slim chances here. But I'm 'coping' by trying to find the least terrible path forward knowing what we know about management's plan, and the only way I know how to build a good team if it's star defenseman and star center aren't at the pinnacle of the league, is to have bloody good depth. (Reminding myself of Michael Caine from the Prestige- it's the only way NYR how to do it in this era where we don't have a Crosby to build around. If we aren;t going to have the best players on the ice each game, you need your 2nd and 3rd lines to outmatch the opposition to balance it)

We're rapidly approaching the point of aging where a lot of our elite talent stands out from the crowd no more than it did in 2012-2015. Panarin is no longer a top 5 wing in the league. He's not Nash yet, but no one looks at NYR's top 3 forwards any more and makes a case for them being in the top tier.

Trick is this- there's so much depth to get. You can move Zibanejad, but where are you getting another 1C to give us the depth they need there? It's almost as likely that he recovers as NYR are somehow able to find a treasure randomly. Because Miller-Trocheck can work OK as a 1-2 but that's not seperating NYR from the pack. Top line centers are never available in UFA. I'd almost move Kreider and just keep Zibanejad on the prayer that with great matchups as a 3C over a whole season, playing with Berard and Othmann, that he's able to put together a 3rd line to rival Pouliot-Brassard-Nash.

NYR got 'gifts' in Kevin Hayes and Zuccarello as guys we idn't draft but through a combination of good scouting and luck were able to bring in. I know there are fewer unplucked gems in Europe now with scouting how it is, but they need to expand the "Reach" pipeline beyond bringing in guys like Kaliyev.

Where are NYR getting two solid 2nd pairing defensemen? We lucked out pulling Stralman off the heap and traded our firstborn son to the Devil for Yandle.

Vince noted that NYR don't have a lot of draft capital to move, and we are gonna need a lot of our young talent (Perreault, Othmann, Berard) to be here and contributing for cheap to allow us the depth we need.

We talked last season about how NYR built a 80 foot ladder for a 100 foot building. The ladder shrunk 10 feet last year due to aging, and we bought a 5 foot extension in JT Miller. They're gonna have to get SUPER creative now to try to fix things.

As far as an Elite winger, I'm still praying we find a way to package Lafreniere to bring Tkachuk here. Talk to Buffalo about Owen Power. But even getting us into the conversation will require probably 2-3 more 1st round picks traded, OR a couple lucky hits on the UDFA market, combined with a psychological recovery in the room.

I think it was Publius who said "It is a bad plan that cannot be altered," well the 2017 rebuild was a bad plan then.

If the plan is "lets hope Mika gets it together" for next season then IMO he needs to be put back as 1C or 2C. No more of this Trocheck crap. Put Vinny on the 3rd line where he belongs and YOLO it from there. Maybe a full season away from Kreider and surronded by young hungry wingers is the way to go.

I mean, on paper and IF they all play to their capabilities, Rangers arguably have the best center depth in the league.

 

[Machinehead]

My appraisal of the Miller trade does kind of depend on the eventual return.

Because from where I'm sitting it was Drury being offered a top line piece for probably only about 70% of the going market rate due to Miller's desire to play here.

If they decide they've given up in summer of 2027 or 2028, with the cap continuing to rise a late career JT Miller could fetch a haul in a deal to a contender looking for a last piece to put them over the top. Heck he can play center OR wing. Doubly so if NYR, starting a new rebuild at that time, are willing to retain.

Had we gone out and traded the farm like we almost did for Brad Richards at the deadline, I'd agree with you. But Miller, despite his age, has term at a reasonable hit in th rising cap era, and that should be good for his eventual value.

As I continue to cope with a decision I disagree with here- it MAY be auspiscious to rebuild in 2-3 years compared to right now. A lot of our group is currently at their absolute market low value after a season like this one. Guys will be a lot older in 2028, but if we have a selling spree of Trocheck and others at that point- the depth pool in the league is gonna remain static, especially with more new teams if that happens. Players even of age may be worth their weight in gold on contracts given out in austerity markets from 2021-2023

I hear you, but like, the whole "we could get value back for this if it goes up in flames" doesn't absolve the GM from setting the fire.

His plan wasn't to spin JT Miller in 2027. He could do that, but if that was the plan, he would have kept the pick he had.

And yeah, if he does do that, the negative impact is less, but he still caused it.

The 3rd he traded could end up working in finance but he still did it.

Even something like burning a year of Perreault's ELC to healthy scratch him. Is it ultimately nothing more than a fly on my ass? Probably, but how do you let that happen???

Sometimes moves aren't necessarily catastrophic but they still show me how dumb you are (not you literally).

 

[Siddi]

How Hershey's Todd Nelson Became One of the Top Coaches in the AHL - The Hockey Writers Hershey Bears Latest News, Analysis & More

Todd Nelson is one of the best head coaches in the AHL, yet his success and vision go beyond the Hershey Bears.

thehockeywriters.com

"Nelson has a pulse on every part of the game. “I allow my players creativity but that being said, they have to play well defensively,” he mentioned about the forwards who can make a highlight play but when making a mistake, must be the first skater back on defense. It’s why the Bears are a good backchecking team as Nelson preaches, “If you want to score off the rush, that’s fine but you can’t turn over the puck, and if you turn over the puck, you better be the first one back on defense to help out.”


In other words, get the f*** out, Mika. You can't play for Coach Nelson.


But this might be too Lavioletteish:

“My goal as a coach is to make it a family atmosphere so that players want to come to the rink and make themselves better,” Nelson noted for what he does as a coach to bring that winning culture. He mentioned how he meets with the players and their families before the season starts to get to know them and build a relationship with them."

The biggest culprits in that area are JT, Laf and Panarin. Coach Nelson would not have enough players to fill a roster if he came to NYC.

 

[Homelander]

Neil Smith and Ron Dugauy

They both said that Dolan is very involved CURRENTLY in the Rangers? Seems like Dolan has taken very much a hands-off approach since hiring Sather.

 

[tiggles]

Facepunch HC minus Panarin isn't gonna be very good!

Oh, the position of the picks will be good... I just don't expect us to actually own any of them.

 

[Profet]

Even if they're shitty for the next few years and get high picks, unless the coach is committed to a rebuild, we're going to see the same bullshit PP with no kids.
We're going to see the same thing again again... young promising kids becoming third line grinders because that is the only thing they are exposed to being.

 

[Homelander]

Drury's Dangerous Driving - OutsideTheGarden

The circumstances for Chris Drury’s ascension to General Manager and President were quick and somewhat unexpected. It started with THAT game against the Capitals on May 3rd, 2001 which saw Tom Wilson embarrass the Rangers on their home ice. Two days later owner Jim Dolan had fired both President...

outsidethegarden.com

When you look back, it's amazing the shit Drury did and got away with. He's so f***ing incompetent and such a tone-deaf asshole that it's scary.

 

[HonestGabe]

• Fire Laviolette & Housely, hire Woodcroft or Jay Leach. Keep Muse & Peca on the staff
• Schneider + 3rd for Peterka
• Mika + K'Andre + Othmann for Rossi + Brodin
• Kreider + Jones packaged for a 2nd round pick
• dump Soucy for a 4th/5th

RFA

• Peterka - 5 x 6.5m
• Cuylle - 2 x 3.25m
• Rossi - 6 x 6m
• Edstrom 1 x 950k
• Rempe 1 x 900k

UFA

• Dumoulin - 3 x 3m
• Fabbro - 4 x 3.75m
• 7th D - 1 x 850k

Panarin Rossi Peterka
Lafreniere Miller Perreault
Cuylle Trocheck Berard/Parssinen
Edstrom Carrick Rempe/Brodzinski/Parssinen/Berard

Brodin Fox
Dumoulin Fabbro
Vaakanainen Borgen
(vet min. 7th D)

Igor/Quick

 

[Harbour Dog]

Picking 10th-12thOA this year, and handing Pittsburgh next year's pick, turns my stomach.

I know we're going to do it, but the risk/reward feels completely out of whack.

 

[Homelander]

Picking 10th-12thOA this year, and handing Pittsburgh next year's pick, turns my stomach.

I know we're going to do it, but the risk/reward feels completely out of whack.

They better not

 

[IDvsEGO]

Picking 10th-12thOA this year, and handing Pittsburgh next year's pick, turns my stomach.

I know we're going to do it, but the risk/reward feels completely out of whack.

The risk is handing them a top 5 pick. Especially if we sell off.
A top 12 pick isn’t making the team better this year.

 

[zlev]

Neil Smith and Ron Dugauy

neither of these guys know shit about how the team is run in the year 2025

 

[Hockeyfan200]

• Fire Laviolette & Housely, hire Woodcroft or Jay Leach. Keep Muse & Peca on the staff
• Schneider + 3rd for Peterka
• Mika + K'Andre + Othmann for Rossi + Brodin
• Kreider + Jones packaged for a 2nd round pick
• dump Soucy for a 4th/5th

RFA

• Peterka - 5 x 6.5m
• Cuylle - 2 x 3.25m
• Rossi - 6 x 6m
• Edstrom 1 x 950k
• Rempe 1 x 900k

UFA

• Dumoulin - 3 x 3m
• Fabbro - 4 x 3.75m
• 7th D - 1 x 850k

Panarin Rossi Peterka
Lafreniere Miller Perreault
Cuylle Trocheck Berard/Parssinen
Edstrom Carrick Rempe/Brodzinski/Parssinen/Berard

Brodin Fox
Dumoulin Fabbro
Vaakanainen Borgen
(vet min. 7th D)

Igor/Quick

Wild aren't trading Brodin like at all and he won't waive, so it doesn't matter. Othmann and Mika doesn't get Rossi. Wild legit have no need for K'Andre. They won't trade one of their best Dman in Brodin.

 

[UnparalledPark]

I can't wait until next season. I'm going to shit on everyone. Screw it!

Mike, don’t give in to the dark side.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Drury's Dangerous Driving - OutsideTheGarden

The circumstances for Chris Drury’s ascension to General Manager and President were quick and somewhat unexpected. It started with THAT game against the Capitals on May 3rd, 2001 which saw Tom Wilson embarrass the Rangers on their home ice. Two days later owner Jim Dolan had fired both President...

outsidethegarden.com

When you look back, it's amazing the shit Drury did and got away with. He's so f***ing incompetent and such a tone-deaf asshole that it's scary.

It’s also amazing that this doesn’t even include the Kane roster management fiasco

 

[eco's bones]

Drury or whoever will trade next year's 1st rounder if he thinks he can bring in a player that's going to help squeak us into the playoffs. Anyone who doesn't think that getting back into the playoffs won't be the primary mission of our GM is pretty much out to lunch. It's not how the Rangers do things. What's more if the Rangers do rebound our GM will also likely use that 1st rounder to enhance our chances of going deep. If Drury manages to survive into next season as GM he better make the playoffs---two years in a row he won't survive. Next year's 1st rounder is very likely getting moved one way or the other.

 

[bhamill]

Vitali Kravtsov says hello.

…from Russia because he bombed out of Vancouver as well.
Personally I think management calling out players who deserve it is fine. And Kravtsov clearly deserved it.
Everyone says this team needs accountability… but don’t call anyone out.

 

[LokiDog]

I see no path forward for this team. Let’s say the obvious Kreider move takes place and Panarin is moved at the TDL.

The depth chart essentially becomes:

Lafreniere - Miller - Zibanejad
Cuylle - Trochek - Perreault
Othmann - Brodzinski - Berard
Edstrom - Carrick - Rempe

Obviously that’s not what it will be. We’ll try to get a roster player or two in Kreider/Panarin trades and we’ll add some stuff in free agency, but that is what we have right now if you remove those two. That’s a bottom 3 forward group with San Jose and Chicago. The entire bottom six could be playing in the AHL just as easily as the NHL.

Moreover, we don’t have many worthwhile assets we can realistically move and the UFA class isn’t that attractive. Strike out on Gavrikov and what’s your go-to plan?

The defense we know is absolutely hideous. So in addition to needing to figure out how to bolster that forward group while still making sure the right players are getting playing time, we have a ton of work to do on the back end.

Igor is gonna need to at least be more consistent next year. We can point to the team play in front of him but he was flat out not good enough and needs to reaffirm himself as a top 5 goalie since he’s getting paid like his name is Connor McPuckstop.

I don’t have faith in a single player on the roster right now. Miller was solid after being acquired but also clearly not the Miller who put up a couple of 100 point seasons and now 32 years old. Trochek was actually much closer to what I expected when the actual contract was signed than what he did last year. He’s perfectly fine as a middle-six center. Also 32 now. Zibanejad showed up as a mediocre 2nd liner. Also 32 now. Lafreniere regressed from 57 points to 45 and will be in his 6th year, 24 years old at the start of the season. Should be literally in his full prime from now til 2029, so 45 points doesn’t cut it. Cuylle is a nice player but another 45 point guy. Chance he takes another step next year, chance he stays a 50 point guy. Othmann has 2 points in 23 NHL games. There is not a lot going on with this group.

Fox is the only guy you feel like you can guarantee you’re going to get a solid season from next year, and even then, without help and hopefully a bit of off-season conditioning work, that solid season isn’t going to be some point per game monster season. Without Panarin, you almost won’t be surprised if the team leader is Miller with 65-70 points next year and Fox following with 60. If that happens and the defense isn’t WORLDS better, that’s a bottom five team in the league.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

…from Russia because he bombed out of Vancouver as well.
Personally I think management calling out players who deserve it is fine. And Kravtsov clearly deserved it.
Everyone says this team needs accountability… but don’t call anyone out.

I could see it creating an odd vibe if rookies and young guys are getting called out but vets are getting all the ice time they could imagine no matter what. Seems like that is what is happening.

 

[Machinehead]

I see no path forward for this team. Let’s say the obvious Kreider move takes place and Panarin is moved at the TDL.

The depth chart essentially becomes:

Lafreniere - Miller - Zibanejad
Cuylle - Trochek - Perreault
Othmann - Brodzinski - Berard
Edstrom - Carrick - Rempe

Obviously that’s not what it will be. We’ll try to get a roster player or two in Kreider/Panarin trades and we’ll add some stuff in free agency, but that is what we have right now if you remove those two. That’s a bottom 3 forward group with San Jose and Chicago. The entire bottom six could be playing in the AHL just as easily as the NHL.

The defense we know is absolutely hideous. So in addition to needing to figure out how to bolster that forward group while still making sure the right players are getting playing time, we have a ton of work to do on the back end.

Igor is gonna need to at least be more consistent next year. We can point to the team play in front of him but he was flat out not good enough and needs to reaffirm himself as a top 5 goalie since he’s getting paid like his name is Connor McPuckstop.

I don’t have faith in a single player on the roster right now. Miller was solid after being acquired but also clearly not the Miller who put up a couple of 100 point seasons and now 32 years old. Trochek was actually much closer to what I expected when the actual contract was signed than what he did last year. He’s perfectly fine as a middle-six center. Also 32 now. Zibanejad showed up as a mediocre 2nd liner. Also 32 now. Lafreniere regressed from 57 points to 45 and will be in his 6th year, 24 years old at the start of the season. Should be literally in his full prime from now til 2029, so 45 points doesn’t cut it. Cuylle is a nice player but another 45 point guy. Chance he takes another step next year, chance he stays a 50 point guy. Othmann has 2 points in 23 NHL games. There is not a lot going on with this group.

Fox is the only guy you feel like you can guarantee you’re going to get a solid season from next year, and even then, without help and hopefully a bit of off-season conditioning work, that solid season isn’t going to be some point per game monster season. Without Panarin, you almost won’t be surprised if the team leader is Miller with 65-70 points next year and Fox following with 60. If that happens and the defense isn’t WORLDS better, that’s a bottom five team in the league.

Right, like, I know everyone is afraid of rebuilding, but this team ain't gonna be good anyway! I don't see a realistic path to making them good.

We're along for the ride now so we might as well grab as many assets as possible instead of burning them.

 

[RangerBoy]

BTW, not for nothing, but Buchnevich liked Calvin deHaan's post on Bar Down.


No one likes Drury. He's a moron who throws his weight around when he doesn't have the cache or track record to do so. He's a little dictator that no one respects or admires.

f*** your Stanley Cup. f*** your LLWS. You're an incompetent, entitled nepo baby, who backstabbed his way to the top.

Drury should know better. He played in the NHL for 12 years. He is not some analytic bean counter who doesn't how anything about being a professional athlete. He should be able to speak the same language as the players.

Kravtsov is another guy Drury has issues with. Kravtsov was at fault too.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

If the plan is "lets hope Mika gets it together" for next season then IMO he needs to be put back as 1C or 2C. No more of this Trocheck crap. Put Vinny on the 3rd line where he belongs and YOLO it from there. Maybe a full season away from Kreider and surronded by young hungry wingers is the way to go.

I mean, on paper and IF they all play to their capabilities, Rangers arguably have the best center depth in the league.

the only time Zib looked halfway decent this season is when he was moved to RW.

I think his 1C or 2C days are over.

 

[Homelander]

Grandpa Stan calling out Drury. I love it. If only Uncle Larry would follow suit, but I guess he can't bite the hand that feeds him.