Speculation: Roster Building thread: Part XIX (Thanks, Sam)

[billingtons ghost]

Nobody hates the Rangers more than Ranger fans.

Sorry for the off board wandering troll, but the above pure fallacy caught my eye. I get your point tho

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I mean maybe he did break his back thst one game. Bc he was invisible the rest of the playoffs.

And he was 5th on the team in scoring. Yes he was awesome that one game, but other players were better the rest of the series and playoffs.

Trocheck really carried us through the playoffs last year. 20 pts and was our leader. Laff also had more points than kreider, and was much better in the ECF.

But yeah, lets compare kreider to messier who did the guarantee in in the ECF and then went on to have 7pts in 7games in the stanly cup. Did kreider even have a point in the ECF?

He was invisible in the next series because his line drew the Barkov matchup and Barkov locked up everyone in the playoffs last year except for the middle of the Edmonton series where McDavid shat all over him (and who didn't McDavid shit all over? Vancouver did a great job on him and even then they limited him to "just" 9 points in 7 games.)

This seems to be glossed over a ton in these parts and for some reason the excuse given for Panarin's lack of playoff success even though it's never been true, but Zibanejad and Kreider have basically eaten the toughest matchups in the playoffs since they've gone on their little 3 year run. I'm not saying that its been a good thing or it was even the smart play (opposing coaches never moved off of it so they were more than happy to roll with it so probably not) its just how they've been deployed. Loveeveryvet should have moved off of it and tried Trocheck's line against Barkov to see if that could have balanced shit a bit but when he has an idea of what he wants, theres really no coming off of it outside of throwing lines in a blender for a period or 2 before defaulting to what ever started the game moving forward.

The way he's handled this year however, is probably the biggest disappointment of the season which is saying something with the way everything else has gone. He isn't that hurt. I'm confident in saying this because he wouldn't be playing if he were.

The effort we're seeing out of him is not one due to extreme physical limitation, its one due to personal choice. I believe that he was hampered at some point this year, but the guy we've seen over the last month isn't one who is suffering from a nagging injury or anything chronic other than a chronic lack of giving a single f***. I think this will become abundantly clear when he moves on from here and looks more like the player he normally is where ever he ends up.

Its just a shitty way to end what has other wise been a very nice run for a player who has overall been way better than I think anyone could have hoped for when they drafted him 16 years ago.

 

[17futurecap]

Just laughing looking at our cap sheet seeing Borgen, Vak and Soucy all signed through at least next year.

Just an embarrassing defensive unit the gm is running out there.

 

[NYR Viper]

Sorry for the off board wandering troll, but the above pure fallacy caught my eye. I get your point tho

We're all the same with our own teams. We analyze and over analyze every facet of the organizations and like most things, the more you talk and think the more you see. These places are also an echo chamber and the human mind generally falls in to negativity easier than positivity. The Rangers made the ECF last year and EVERYONE HERE thought that team was hot garbage. Final 4 teams playing and it was like they finished bottom-4 in the league.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Well they always thought that and now they get to take their victory lap after 13 years and 324 goals.

They're persistent, I'll give them that.

And they all took their cues from when Larry Brooks first wrote, "Did. You. See. Chris?"

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

And they all took their cues from when Larry Brooks first wrote, "Did. You. See. Chris?"

And the knuckle draggers who convinced themselves he was the next Eric Lindros or whatever. Didn't matter that an incredibly raw kid drafted out of high school turned into one of the franchise's most prolific goal scorers. Regular season, playoffs, on the PP, and short handed. This fanbase is so starved for a home-grown star they were too dumb to realize they had one of the best power forwards in the game for the last 13 years. If only he could dangle.

 

[Mike in Houston]

And the knuckle draggers who convinced themselves he was the next Eric Lindros or whatever. Didn't matter that an incredibly raw kid drafted out of high school turned into one of the franchise's most prolific goal scorers. Regular season, playoffs, on the PP, and short handed. This fanbase is so starved for a home-grown star they were too dumb to realize they had one of the best power forwards in the game for the last 13 years. If only he could dangle.

And hit. Don't forget that. Common complaint I see on Facebook is that he doesn't hit.

 

[RangerBoy]

Peter Baugh did a good job here with Marek. I thought he was nearly spot on with his views on the team.

EF likes to use this phrase. Former NHL player Anthony Stewart's dad came up with it.

Are you a hockey team or are you a club? The Rangers are a club. The Rangers aren't even close to being a team.

 

[haohmaru]

Are you a hockey team or are you a club? The Rangers are a club. The Rangers aren't even close to being a team.

Where can I get a NY Hockey Club jersey lol.

 

[Mac n Gs]

You don't have to go back that far to see why Gorton and JD got canned. There were too many public embarrassments that all came to a head after the Wilson incident and the memo about player safety. Drury's accumulated the same number of embarrassments, and the shit product on the ice should just be the icing on the cake for him. He, and a good chunk of those with ties to him should all be shown the door. It's been said already, but they need a massive overhaul from top-to-bottom.

RB's Ryan Martin suggestion seems fine, but we heard the same thing with Drury when he was the aGM under Gorton. What does Martin really have on his resume? He was Detroit's cap guy, but they had numerous bad contracts at the end of his tenure there. Yes, Grand Rapids was good, but that was largely because of DET's development model under Holland where it was a grind for players to advance through the ranks. It made sense when there were multiple HoF players taking up the key lineup spots. That's not an issue here. His task here was to build up Hartford, and I wouldn't say he really has done much in that respect, but it's also not totally his fault. I remember that being one of the last hires for Drury after being promoted to GM/PoHO, so maybe it was tougher to fill that role than expected given the uncertainty after JD/Gorton were fired. The two coaching hires for HFD were praised at the time, but both coaches were relatively shorthanded with the amount of talent they were provided over the last 5 years. I'd say the contracts he's worked out here are a mixed bag, but probably lean in the green for net contract value.

I'd prefer to see the Rangers go in a different direction. I've said it earlier this year, but they're extremely reminiscent of the 2022 Calgary Flames when Sutter made everyone miserable and got fired. Drury created this same mess. His Laviolette hire has also reached the most predictable endpoint ever where his same exact issues in Washington have come about here. Vets not buying in and young players struggling. Is it really surprising? The guy hasn't gone unemployed for long in this league. When and where would he have put in the time to learn from his previous mistakes to make sure they didn't happen again? As for management, stop with the bullshit connections to being former Rangers. You're one of the most valuable franchises in the league. Act like it and put in the work to hire the most qualified candidate. Let that person set the standard for the entire organization on how they're going to operate, what the identity will be, and how they're going to grow to hit those marks.

Look at the rebuild under Bill Armstrong in Arizona/Utah. He was the director of scouting for St. Louis who were always able to draft and develop players despite never fully tanking. He took over the mess that was left by John Chayka with only Clayton Keller and Jakob Chychrun to show for it. Armstrong systematically stripped down the pieces, accumulated assets, and built a pipeline of players that are slowly making their way into the organization. He got rid of Tocchet and brought in his own coach that's still there and has been improving every year. Tourigny has put their younger players in positions to succeed, and to nobody's surprise, they're poised to become stars. Logan Cooley and Dylan Guenther are going to be an absolutely dynamic duo for the next decade. He's accumulated enough assets and kept a clean enough cap sheet where they could make a huge swing to bring in a difference maker like Sergachev because he had the additional resources to do so.

That's the type of process that's needed here. Idk who the person to do that will be. I've suggested Chris Kelleher and Ryan Hardy before. I'd lean more towards Kelleher because of his scouting background. They'd need an experienced PoHO to help with that role though. They need a coach that will still be here after 4-5 years and be given the actual chance to grow with this team. Look at the guys with previous NHL experience that are now doing great as head coaches in lower leagues. Brad Lauer? James Patrick.

All I know is that none of it should involve Chris Drury and Peter Laviolette. What an absolute f***ing joke of a season this has been.

 

[Tob]

This team has too many sensitive types. If i had to bet, id say borgen soucy and vakkihaonen are troglodytes who only eat foods that can be picked up with their hands. Drury is a big believer in personality theory. We need to get rid of drury but also manage to keep the 1 good thing he’s done and continue to displace the poets and knitters from this team. Move on from Zibanejad and retain $1.5M to make it happen. Trade Kreider for anything. I think it’s doable.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Laf absolutely gets you Peterka, Laf is locked in for 7 yrs. Peterka is RFA and Buf reportedly will have trouble signing him. There are multiple deal options for Buf and NYR to make. I would not be surprised at all if we make a deal with them around the draft. Peterka and Byram are both RFA’s that Buf are possibly looking to move. They have Dahlin and Power looked up long term on the left side D. I’d imagine both Power and Byram will be available.

I'd do Lafreniere and Schneider for Peterka and Byram and run away giggling like a school girl.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'd do Lafreniere and Schneider for Peterka and Byram and run away giggling like a school girl.

Byram sucks and would be hated more than any defenseman has been hated here in recent memory.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Byram sucks and would be hated more than any defenseman has been hated here in recent memory.

I thought he's been one of the best 5 v 5 defensemen in the league despite being on a shit team and that his underlying possession numbers have been fantastic this year. It's very possible I'm confabulating.

Help me out here @Machinehead

 

[Bob Richards]

We're all the same with our own teams. We analyze and over analyze every facet of the organizations and like most things, the more you talk and think the more you see. These places are also an echo chamber and the human mind generally falls in to negativity easier than positivity. The Rangers made the ECF last year and EVERYONE HERE thought that team was hot garbage. Final 4 teams playing and it was like they finished bottom-4 in the league.

Reading other team boards is a great exercise for perspective. It makes you realize that none of us have original thoughts and everyone posts the exact same shit about their teams. Their posters even follow the same character tropes as ours do lmao.

Some of the funniest stuff ever is to compare. You’ll read this board for years and see posts about how soft and physically weak our team is. Then you’ll read the GDT of an opponent we beat and all their fans are killing each other in arguments saying they’re too soft and weak and need to get tougher like the Rangers to really compete.

Every coach loves their vets and hates their rookies and is incapable of making in game adjustments.

When the team wins and the players go on a bowling outing it’s showing that they’re more than a team. They’re family. They have bonds beyond being coworkers. When they lose and go bowling it’s because they’re already in offseason mode and are lazy millionaires who can’t be bothered to care about their jobs.

The beer is too expensive and the stadium bathrooms are gross. The Bible said there is nothing new under the sun [Ecclesiastes 1:9] and that the team spends too much time passing and doesn’t shoot the puck [citation needed].

 

[Machinehead]

I thought he's been one of the best 5 v 5 defensemen in the league despite being on a shit team and that his underlying possession numbers have been fantastic this year. It's very possible I'm confabulating.

Help me out here @Machinehead

Offensively, he fits that bill. He sucks mega ass at defense and his errors make K'Andre Miller look clean and stable.

I would put him next to Fox, but then again, I would just put Miller next to Fox.

 

[bernmeister]

Even he couldn't help that "core"

yes he could but you shall not put the Lord your God to the proof...

I expect a finish around where we are this year if Drury is given one more year.

He'll trade the 1st this year and defer the 2026 pick to Pittsburgh.

He'll trade Kreider for 50 cents on the dollar.

He'll try for Zibanejad. If Trouba is movable any player is. But I don't see it happening this summer.

Not happening
Either he's healthy, and he commands more
or
he is not, and he commands nothing

Healing is back won’t help heal his heart.

This false narrative is as valid as is the concept of cryptocurrency being valid $$

This team has too many sensitive types. If i had to bet, id say borgen soucy and vakkihaonen are troglodytes who only eat foods that can be picked up with their hands. Drury is a big believer in personality theory. We need to get rid of drury but also manage to keep the 1 good thing he’s done and continue to displace the poets and knitters from this team. Move on from Zibanejad and retain $1.5M to make it happen. Trade Kreider for anything. I think it’s doable.

Think again
Zib, yes but it will require full max 4.5 retained to get it done now
No on ck for anything
already explained it, ad nauseum
accept the truth

I'd do Lafreniere and Schneider for Peterka and Byram and run away giggling like a school girl.

NO
Scheneid is underrated here and stays unless key to a special deal e.g., Byfield
Byram no b'c unacceptable risk due to concussion history

 

[RangerBoy]

You don't have to go back that far to see why Gorton and JD got canned. There were too many public embarrassments that all came to a head after the Wilson incident and the memo about player safety. Drury's accumulated the same number of embarrassments, and the shit product on the ice should just be the icing on the cake for him. He, and a good chunk of those with ties to him should all be shown the door. It's been said already, but they need a massive overhaul from top-to-bottom.

RB's Ryan Martin suggestion seems fine, but we heard the same thing with Drury when he was the aGM under Gorton. What does Martin really have on his resume? He was Detroit's cap guy, but they had numerous bad contracts at the end of his tenure there. Yes, Grand Rapids was good, but that was largely because of DET's development model under Holland where it was a grind for players to advance through the ranks. It made sense when there were multiple HoF players taking up the key lineup spots. That's not an issue here. His task here was to build up Hartford, and I wouldn't say he really has done much in that respect, but it's also not totally his fault. I remember that being one of the last hires for Drury after being promoted to GM/PoHO, so maybe it was tougher to fill that role than expected given the uncertainty after JD/Gorton were fired. The two coaching hires for HFD were praised at the time, but both coaches were relatively shorthanded with the amount of talent they were provided over the last 5 years. I'd say the contracts he's worked out here are a mixed bag, but probably lean in the green for net contract value.

I'd prefer to see the Rangers go in a different direction. I've said it earlier this year, but they're extremely reminiscent of the 2022 Calgary Flames when Sutter made everyone miserable and got fired. Drury created this same mess. His Laviolette hire has also reached the most predictable endpoint ever where his same exact issues in Washington have come about here. Vets not buying in and young players struggling. Is it really surprising? The guy hasn't gone unemployed for long in this league. When and where would he have put in the time to learn from his previous mistakes to make sure they didn't happen again? As for management, stop with the bullshit connections to being former Rangers. You're one of the most valuable franchises in the league. Act like it and put in the work to hire the most qualified candidate. Let that person set the standard for the entire organization on how they're going to operate, what the identity will be, and how they're going to grow to hit those marks.

Look at the rebuild under Bill Armstrong in Arizona/Utah. He was the director of scouting for St. Louis who were always able to draft and develop players despite never fully tanking. He took over the mess that was left by John Chayka with only Clayton Keller and Jakob Chychrun to show for it. Armstrong systematically stripped down the pieces, accumulated assets, and built a pipeline of players that are slowly making their way into the organization. He got rid of Tocchet and brought in his own coach that's still there and has been improving every year. Tourigny has put their younger players in positions to succeed, and to nobody's surprise, they're poised to become stars. Logan Cooley and Dylan Guenther are going to be an absolutely dynamic duo for the next decade. He's accumulated enough assets and kept a clean enough cap sheet where they could make a huge swing to bring in a difference maker like Sergachev because he had the additional resources to do so.

That's the type of process that's needed here. Idk who the person to do that will be. I've suggested Chris Kelleher and Ryan Hardy before. I'd lean more towards Kelleher because of his scouting background. They'd need an experienced PoHO to help with that role though. They need a coach that will still be here after 4-5 years and be given the actual chance to grow with this team. Look at the guys with previous NHL experience that are now doing great as head coaches in lower leagues. Brad Lauer? James Patrick.

All I know is that none of it should involve Chris Drury and Peter Laviolette. What an absolute f***ing joke of a season this has been.

Chris Drury joined the Rangers front office with zero experience. He was a player development guy and then named AGM of the Rangers and GM of Hartford with limited experience.

 

[RangerBoy]

Where can I get a NY Hockey Club jersey lol.

Maybe the Rangers will have a NY Hockey Club sweater available for their 100th season?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Byram sucks and would be hated more than any defenseman has been hated here in recent memory.

Challenge accepted

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Fair, but Drury will be shipping out a lot of the cancer in the offseason and will add. I think there is no way we are a bottom feeder team. Almost impossible.

Drury IS the cancer

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If Marner were add available I'd sign him for sure. It's hard to get high end players especially without giving up something. Put him with Miller and cuylle next year let's go

 

[Mac n Gs]

Chris Drury joined the Rangers front office with zero experience. He was a player development guy and then named AGM of the Rangers and GM of Hartford with limited experience.

I know, and it’s not an uncommon trajectory for those that work their way up through management. There’s plenty of other guys around the league with similar profiles. Martin was with Detroit for like 15 years under Holland before coming here.

My comment was pertaining to Drury also being interviewed for open GM spots while working here. If I remember correctly, didn’t Gorton also block him from interviewing a team too? Let him interview for the job just like everyone else. His job here hasn’t earned him the right to a de facto promotion.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I thought he's been one of the best 5 v 5 defensemen in the league despite being on a shit team and that his underlying possession numbers have been fantastic this year. It's very possible I'm confabulating.

Help me out here @Machinehead

Nah.

I broke him down a few weeks ago and it was… not good.

He has strengths (awesome shooter) but he’s horrid defensively. The charts don’t really capture how bad he is. Hes bails out of taking contact all the time and perhaps that’s due to his concussion history, but it’s a thing.

He’d need a coach who really knows what they’re doing. If we had David Carle I’d be more willing to roll the dice there but then again I’d provably just pay extra to try to pry Power out of there in that case.

 

[Beliveau]

I don't think you can be too clean such as the Stars and win a SC. I'd keep the skaters that block shots and hit (such as Will Cuylle) and dump the rest.